Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

As he's going to win the election, I'm happy to be "stuck" with him. Not as good a President as Clinton, but better than the alternatives (and no, I didn't vote for him in the primaries in '08).

Not sure why you think Clinton was a better president than Obama has been. Both are pragmatists but Clinton triangulated for its own sake, while Obama keeps playing the long game and getting the things he wants the most: health care, disentanglement from the empire, and now maybe even a repudiation of the plutocracy. Those are all Enormous Things -- transformations. Clinton ran a good tactical presidency but the only transformation he worked for and achieved was the globalization of American economic policy. How'd that work out?

Bill was the right guy for his time, but Obama seems to be doing extremely well for his, which is far, far more challenging. When the ODS types are in the ground, he will be remembered as an excellent strategist who helped renew America. Clinton is remembered as an excellent tactician but, generally speaking, a caretaker who followed the precept "first, do no harm."

They are clearly the best two presidents since Eisenhower, anyway.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

...and now maybe even a repudiation of the plutocracy.

I laughed. Seriously?

Obama brown-noses the rich just as often as any other president has in the last 40 years.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

IObama brown-noses the rich just as often as any other president has in the last 40 years.

He keeps asking for a higher marginal rate, he keeps pointing out that unearned income should be taxed the same as earned income, he keeps suggesting that FICA should be uncapped. He brown noses, sure, be at least he's framing the question correctly -- that's something you'll never see the GOP do.

I know the rot has set in on both parties and the Romneybots exert a huge influence. But there is still a difference and Obama has lately been trying to make the difference even greater. If he can do it while still taking their donations, more power to him. As Jesse Unruh said, "if you can't drink their whiskey, take their money, screw their women and still vote against them, you don't belong here."

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Not sure why you think Clinton was a better president than Obama has been.

Bill Clinton came along at a lot worse time for his party. Its funny to think about it now, but at the time before his election there was talk of a GOP electoral lock and any Dem President elected in this era would be a one term sorta accidental President like Carter (elected because of Watergate). He was also facing the most corrupt-but-not-stupid opposition Congress since the Radicals run from 1860's-1880's. He single handedly destroyed the notion that 1) tax hikes on the rich would kill the economy, 2) the budget couldn't be balanced, and 3) no Dem Prez would be tough enough on foreign policy.

Consider this: Clinton continually resisted the urge to spend the surplus on gimmicky tax cuts, and instead started paying down the deficit. The minute he left office, the same Congress with a now friendly President halted this and squandered those gains. Had he given in to their idiotic ideas back in 1995, how much worse would the national debt be now? Medicare/Medicaid would be slashed by a trillion dollars to pay for Mitt Romney and his pals' tax cuts. Because of the budget victories of the 1990's, plans like the Paul Ryan debacle are a laughingstock instead of the law of the land.

Also, something he doesn't get nearly enough credit for, at least 1M residents of the Balkans are still breathing air today thanks to him launching two politically risky but ultimately just wars to stop a genocide with Europe sat around with their thumbs up their ***es. Compare that to the Iraq war needlessly fought less than a decade later.

So, while the page has yet to be written about Obama and we don't have the benefit of hindsight, a lot of the issues Obama is using to his advantage (tax fairness, medical insurance for all) he can thank the prior Dem Admin for moving them forward. My biggest complaint about Obama is its taken him 3 1/2 years to learn what Clinton did in 2, which is that the opposition party has no intention of cooperating with him on anything unless they absolutely have to. This whole payroll tax issue is the first time I've seen him figure that out. If he can keep framing issues in this way, perhaps his stature will grow.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Bill Clinton came along at a lot worse time for his party. Its funny to think about it now, but at the time before his election there was talk of a GOP electoral lock and any Dem President elected in this era would be a one term sorta accidental President like Carter (elected because of Watergate). He was also facing the most corrupt-but-not-stupid opposition Congress since the Radicals run from 1860's-1880's. He single handedly destroyed the notion that 1) tax hikes on the rich would kill the economy, 2) the budget couldn't be balanced, and 3) no Dem Prez would be tough enough on foreign policy.

Consider this: Clinton continually resisted the urge to spend the surplus on gimmicky tax cuts, and instead started paying down the deficit. The minute he left office, the same Congress with a now friendly President halted this and squandered those gains. Had he given in to their idiotic ideas back in 1995, how much worse would the national debt be now? Medicare/Medicaid would be slashed by a trillion dollars to pay for Mitt Romney and his pals' tax cuts. Because of the budget victories of the 1990's, plans like the Paul Ryan debacle are a laughingstock instead of the law of the land.

Also, something he doesn't get nearly enough credit for, at least 1M residents of the Balkans are still breathing air today thanks to him launching two politically risky but ultimately just wars to stop a genocide with Europe sat around with their thumbs up their ***es. Compare that to the Iraq war needlessly fought less than a decade later.

So, while the page has yet to be written about Obama and we don't have the benefit of hindsight, a lot of the issues Obama is using to his advantage (tax fairness, medical insurance for all) he can thank the prior Dem Admin for moving them forward. My biggest complaint about Obama is its taken him 3 1/2 years to learn what Clinton did in 2, which is that the opposition party has no intention of cooperating with him on anything unless they absolutely have to. This whole payroll tax issue is the first time I've seen him figure that out. If he can keep framing issues in this way, perhaps his stature will grow.

These are all good points. I do remember how Clinton, Gore and the DLC saved the DNC from itself. The Dems before Clinton were like the GOP now: the same things that drove their regional strengths made them poisonous nationally. The Republicans' failure to acknowledge and address their problems is a reminder of how Group Think can calcify any bureaucracy, and nothing is as bureaucratic as a national political party.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Obama brown-noses the rich just as often as any other president has in the last 40 years.

Well many think Obama's all about class warefare against the rich. The truth? He's somewhere in the middle...and probably what's best for this country.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Your respect for the Presidency is inspiring.

I assume you took the same position during Watergate. Besides, is this jumped up "community organizer" whose minister thinks God should "d*am" America, now beyond criticism? Is he now "the presidency?" Such blarney. He ran the most negative campaign in US history in '08, and this amazing transition into national reverand is part of his curtain call.

Remember the Holy Trinity: no, not celery, onion and bell pepper. "Racism, Hatred and Stupidity" That's all you guys have got.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Well many think Obama's all about class warefare against the rich. The truth? He's somewhere in the middle...and probably what's best for this country.

I'll tell you what's "best for the country," old friend. It's for people like you to stop drinking Kool Aid with every meal.

 

[sagard]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

[snip] typical rant[/snip] That's all you guys have got.

Tend to agree. If the Repubs would take a less costly in terms of blood and gold approach to foreign policy, they'd never lose an election. Americans love an apology. If Mitt or whoever admits the fiasco of the Bush administration, it would win far more votes in middle compared to the guys like you it would lose. Plus really it's not like you and your kind of people would really cross over to Obama anyways.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Tend to agree. If the Repubs would take a less costly in terms of blood and gold approach to foreign policy, they'd never lose an election. Americans love an apology. If Mitt or whoever admits the fiasco of the Bush administration, it would win far more votes in middle compared to the guys like you it would lose. Plus really it's not like you and your kind of people would really cross over to Obama anyways.

This great genius, whose transcripts are nevertheless more carefully guarded than the formula for Coke, has picked a fight with the Catholic Church for no apparant reason other than hubris or stupidity. Either way, Axelrod's gonna have to explain to "his wonderfulness" just how many Catholics there are in battleground states.

"My kind of people?" We're about as willing to consider an alternative point of view as those perceptive sheep on the south side of Chicago.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

"My kind of people?" .

You got your own kind of people, TF F

 

[eaglehockeyrules]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Lads, get used to the idea of another Obama term. Obama leads 51% to Romney's 45%.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Lads, get used to the idea of another Obama term. Obama leads 51% to Romney's 45%.

Yes, as to your first sentence. The poll you're referring to made a very, very, basic polling error though. Before asking the horse race question, they asked:

Question 28: In his work as a corporate investor, do you think Mitt Romney did more to (create jobs) or more to (cut jobs)?

Question 29: Do you think of Romney’s wealth as more of a (positive because it suggests he has achieved the American dream) or as more of a (negative because it suggests he benefited from opportunities that are not available to most people)?
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Question 30: Romney paid about a 14% federal tax rate on income of about 22 million dollars last year. Do you think he is or is not paying his fair share of taxes?

Question 31: For each item I name, please tell me if it is a major reason to (support) that candidate, a major reason to (oppose) that candidate, or not a major factor?

Romney’s business experience
Romney’s Mormon religion
Gingrich’s performance as Speaker of the House in the early 1990’s.
Gingrich’s consulting work for companies with an interest in federal policymaking.
Obama’s handling of the economy.
Obama’s handling of the threat of terrorism.

A pretty basic no-no.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Lads, get used to the idea of another Obama term. Obama leads 51% to Romney's 45%.

What's the difference anyway? Obamney 2012!

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Yes, as to your first sentence. The poll you're referring to made a very, very, basic polling error though. Before asking the horse race question, they asked: (snip)

A pretty basic no-no.

And even if it was perfect survey methodology, didn't Dukakis have an 8 or 9 point lead at one point?

Anything can happen this far out from the election. National polls are next to worthless anyway, and even battleground state polls probably won't indicate anything predictive until 3 or 4 weeks after the second convention -- what's that, early September?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

What's the difference anyway? Obamney 2012!

The difference is a coupla Kagans versus a coupla Alitos. That's a huge difference, considering Citizens United will have a thumb on election scales for the next several decades. It took 25 years to overturn Lochner.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

The difference is a coupla Kagans versus a coupla Alitos. That's a huge difference, considering Citizens United will have a thumb on election scales for the next several decades. It took 25 years to overturn Lochner.

Such a schmarty pantz, referencing a 110 year old case. Quoting Steve Mizerak from the old Miller Lite commercials: ". . .even when you're just showing off."

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

The difference is a coupla Kagans versus a coupla Alitos. That's a huge difference, considering Citizens United will have a thumb on election scales for the next several decades. It took 25 years to overturn Lochner.

As opposed to the unions and MoveOn...?

 

[duper]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

A comment that was made is, I think, very telling of the problems that we are having in this country. The first time I remember noticing it was while Clinton was president, it continued to pick up steam while W. was president, and it is still going on now. I'm thinking of the old bumper stickers that said that [then-NRA president] Charlton Heston is MY president. People said crap like that about Bush as well. Now we hear it about Obama. But here's the thing...

Clinton was EVERY AMERICAN'S PRESIDENT. George W. Bush was EVERY AMERICAN'S PRESIDENT. And Obama is EVERY AMERICAN'S PRESIDENT.

If anyone is stuck with him, we all are. Same went for W. Same went for Clinton. And every other U.S. President. Regardless of who made the comment on this occasion, the fact is that as long as so many of us see two America's, "Our America" and "Their America" we are all ****ed. The thing I like about Obama, maybe the best thing about him (and for the record, yes I do like Obama) is that I believe that he tried to take those two Americas and put them back together.

I know I will be lambasted by the conservatives for refusing to see Obama for what he is, and that I'll be lambasted by the other liberals for secretly being a fascist, but I really think that the whole "United we stand, divided we fall" thing might be a good lesson. Disagree with me about Obama, but I don't see how anyone can view the pig-headed refusal to accept the potential for legitimacy in anyone else's point of view as anything but a destructive force.

Pardon the interruption. Carry on the pig-headed refusals while I go back to sitting quietly in the corner.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Obama screwed the pooch on the contraception thing. Romney's actually getting street cred from Catholics now.

Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.