Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

That's a very limited analogy seeing that NPR fired Williams and the head of that nest of Mumia lovers herself got canned. I don't see Scjoeffer's job being in much jeopardy for him saying what most of them believe.

I think we're talking about different things. I hope.

In his role as Fox talking head, Juan Williams has gleefully attacked a number of left-wing targets, which has made him a lot of friends on the right. Freed from the shackles of the dominant liberal media machine, Williams is free at last to express his honest views on everything (or everything that Fox decides is worth covering).

So what does this newly free man have to say about the subject? Basically, that the attacks on Obama's personal background (like his birth or schooling) are almost invariably tinged with racism.

Seems to me that the difference here is between Schieffer's "racist" and Williams' "tinged with racism." To me, that's splitting hairs.

Again, I'm not saying that Schieffer isn't a left-wing moonbat. For all I know, he is. But if he is, it's because of something other than his remarks about Obama & race.

 

[pirate]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I know it's an article of faith with some that 9/10ths of the media and everybody who voted for Obama believes that kind of stuff. I have never personally met anyone who believes it.

But I've also never met anyone who opposed US involvement in a war and "hates the troops." And I've never met anyone who wanted the US to reverse a longstanding policy and "hates America." So maybe that stuff that gets broadcast 24/7 on the radio circuit is just a bunch of garbage.

All the crying about "The One" is outrage in search of a meal.

I tend to think that the BHO presidency is actually going to help the "you're just racist" argument's shrinkage. When there aren't tangible measures it is easy to say something happened or somebody said something because of racism (or any 'ism). Any manager, executive or owner that has ever fired someone in a protected class has either heard the accusation of discrimination or been asked by HR how they can be sure it wasn't discrimination. That does happen. And prior to the election there was some of that in relation to support for Hillary or McCain or simply questioning the qualifications of a less than 1 term senator with no other political experience.

When the manager can prove that the person in question isn't being fired because they are old, disabled or a minority then it clears up the question and helps not only HR but the audience see that true equality means there are similar outcomes for similarly qualified people and they better get used to it vs. whine about it.

When Ty got fired by ND there were lots of claims of racism...when he got fired by UW there were fewer. Nobody thought Dennis Green got fired because he was black. When ND extended Weis it was because he was white, when they fired him it wasn't because he was fat. Sometimes there is no boogeyman under the bed and the scared person needs to see that before they believe it.

BHO will develop his own record, people will be able to judge him on that vs. his skin color. Will there be some nimrods that still cloud it by color, absolutely. Look at some of those posts below...those people aren't suddenly becoming enlightened any time soon. But, the idea that valid criticism of Obama's performance could be brushed aside as racism will be reduced.

That he was able to ascend to the highest office and can demonstrate that the real measurement is in the results, not the look, should reduce the ease at which people deflect issues with the R card. It is far easier to critique women in business and politics than it used to be...nobody defers to them due to their gender. They have demonstrated they can do the job and withstand the feedback...women's groups don't picket if a female CEO gets fired for bad performance.

Hopefully, racially based political criticism and the periodic pushback that all criticism is racially motivated can start to be pushed from the scene...by results that people can see, not theories or predjudices.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I think we're talking about different things. I hope.

In his role as Fox talking head, Juan Williams has gleefully attacked a number of left-wing targets, which has made him a lot of friends on the right. Freed from the shackles of the dominant liberal media machine, Williams is free at last to express his honest views on everything (or everything that Fox decides is worth covering).

So what does this newly free man have to say about the subject? Basically, that the attacks on Obama's personal background (like his birth or schooling) are almost invariably tinged with racism.

Seems to me that the difference here is between Schieffer's "racist" and Williams' "tinged with racism." To me, that's splitting hairs.

Again, I'm not saying that Schieffer isn't a left-wing moonbat. For all I know, he is. But if he is, it's because of something other than his remarks about Obama & race.

Got it. You have me at a disadvantage, since I rarely watch Fox. However, to save some "face," I"ll point out that Williams is rolled out there to give his opinion. Schieffer is supposed to be an anchor, who keeps his opinions to himself.

As to racism, we're well north of 300 million Americans these days and it seems likely that at least some of them are motivated by racial animus when they criticize BHO. Just like the New Black Panther Party and Louis Farrakhan, oh, h*ll, you know where this is going.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I know it's an article of faith with some that 9/10ths of the media and everybody who voted for Obama believes that kind of stuff. I have never personally met anyone who believes it.

But I've also never met anyone who opposed US involvement in a war and "hates the troops." And I've never met anyone who wanted the US to reverse a longstanding policy and "hates America." So maybe that stuff that gets broadcast 24/7 on the radio circuit is just a bunch of garbage.

All the crying about "The One" is outrage in search of a meal.

Uh, meet Obama pals Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dorhn (and their pals the Weather Underground) and that mouthy priest who just got canned. Meet Code Pink. Meet all of the Communist front groups who demonstrated against "Bush's" wars but are too busy to demonstrate against Obama's, including the most recent one.

If you are hinting around that the MSM weren't totally in the bag for Obama (see: Mathews, tingles) then what rational basis can we have for any conversation? They absolutely were. And to a lesser extent, still are. If the president involved in 'birth certificate gate" had been named Nixon, do you suppose the dominant story line would have been "those crazy left wing moon bat Democrats?" Or would it have been something like: "What is that bastiche Nixon hiding? After all, he was responsible for putting the beloved Communist spy Alger Hiss in the clink. He's capable of anything."

The elite or legacy media lean to the left and always have. By the same token, they don't want to commit the cardinal sin of missing "the big story." That's why they all abandoned the Pope in Cuba to rush home to cover Monica.

As to never "meeting" someone who "thinks that way," I'm reminded of the ultra lib writer (somebody help me with her name) who said she couldn't understand how Reagan had won, none of her friends voted for him.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Schieffer is supposed to be an anchor, who keeps his opinions to himself.

Good point. I was mostly wondering whether the opinion really was all that extreme. but you're right. The context *is* different.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

This is manifestly true, although I can't explain it. And no amount of "both sides do it" rationalization can change the facts. Look at the political threads. Is there any Republican/conservative phenomenon comparable to the daily, hourly, minute by minute slamming of Palin and Bachmann?

Obama has been a major target since Day 1. That he supposedly skates by at USCHO.com isn't in any way indicative of the overall political discourse climate. That isn't meant to justify anything or anyone that whines about the right, but let's not pretend by any stretch of the imagination the road has not been equally traveled in both directions.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I tend to think that the BHO presidency is actually going to help the "you're just racist" argument's shrinkage. When there aren't tangible measures it is easy to say something happened or somebody said something because of racism (or any 'ism). Any manager, executive or owner that has ever fired someone in a protected class has either heard the accusation of discrimination or been asked by HR how they can be sure it wasn't discrimination. That does happen. And prior to the election there was some of that in relation to support for Hillary or McCain or simply questioning the qualifications of a less than 1 term senator with no other political experience.

When the manager can prove that the person in question isn't being fired because they are old, disabled or a minority then it clears up the question and helps not only HR but the audience see that true equality means there are similar outcomes for similarly qualified people and they better get used to it vs. whine about it.

When Ty got fired by ND there were lots of claims of racism...when he got fired by UW there were fewer. Nobody thought Dennis Green got fired because he was black. When ND extended Weis it was because he was white, when they fired him it wasn't because he was fat. Sometimes there is no boogeyman under the bed and the scared person needs to see that before they believe it.

BHO will develop his own record, people will be able to judge him on that vs. his skin color. Will there be some nimrods that still cloud it by color, absolutely. Look at some of those posts below...those people aren't suddenly becoming enlightened any time soon. But, the idea that valid criticism of Obama's performance could be brushed aside as racism will be reduced.

That he was able to ascend to the highest office and can demonstrate that the real measurement is in the results, not the look, should reduce the ease at which people deflect issues with the R card. It is far easier to critique women in business and politics than it used to be...nobody defers to them due to their gender. They have demonstrated they can do the job and withstand the feedback...women's groups don't picket if a female CEO gets fired for bad performance.

Hopefully, racially based political criticism and the periodic pushback that all criticism is racially motivated can start to be pushed from the scene...by results that people can see, not theories or predjudices.

I agree. Over time I believe we'll see less race baiting, but it's unlikely to go away altogether because it pays so well. Al Sharpton (whose career is based on the Tawana Brawley fraud) makes a good living roiling the waters, constantly. Remember his charming phrase, that he was going to become the "baddest n****r in NYC?" That old phony Jesse Jackson (who has lied for decades about holding a dying MLK's head in his hands) still runs his extortion racket and is frequently consulted for the "black" opinion by the MSM. And his son seems intent on extending his father's vulgar, race baiting into a second generation.

I think millions of Americans were at least influenced to vote for Obama because they saw a chance to expiate our racial sins. To tell the world and ourselves that merit, not race was the deciding factor. That we had put the ugly spector of Jim Crow in our collective rear view mirrors. Sadly, those whose livings and influence are endagered by a black man in the WH aren't going down without a fight. Why the president consulted with Sharpton just the other day. After all, keeping the base fired up is the Prime Directive, even if it puts you in bed with that skunk.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Obama has been a major target since Day 1. That he supposedly skates by at USCHO.com isn't in any way indicative of the overall political discourse climate. That isn't meant to justify anything or anyone that whines about the right, but let's not pretend by any stretch of the imagination the road has not been equally traveled in both directions.

Well, he is the POTUS, which puts him in a different category and assures he will be the center of our focus. That's the nature of the beast.

But as far a Palin (especially) is concerned, IMO there are no limits. Recall the Saturday when Congressman Giffords and the others were shot. Here on USCHO.com it was a matter of about an hour before we began to see posts blaming Palin. And that mendacious drivel went on until (several days later) the president denounced it, thus benefitting both ways. Just recently we had a minor dustup about an obscure web site snarkily referring to Palin's son as "retarded." And several of the best posters here immediately lept to the defense of that website with not even a peep of criticism for bringing a helpless child into the mix. After the Giffords shooting we were counseled to lift the level of debate by people who had implicated a totally innocent person in a horrendous crime, who had lowered the debate to a level rarely seen. . .because they don't like Palin's politics.

For whatever reason, Sarah Palin is in a different category. And many libs (who post here) think the ends justify the means--that there are no boundaries on what can be said about her. I don't think there's a comparable phenomenon on the other side. And even if I'm wrong (a theoretical concept) we should all just knock that chit off. It's ugly and un-American IMO.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I agree that Obama is there for all to see, but on that same token Palin made her own bed. First taking the VP nomination, then demosntrating she had no business being there, leaving her post as Governor, then putting herself out there on FOX and with that reality show for all to see, never mind countless comments that made Bachman appear legitimate. Palin wasn't someone in hiding running from the spotlight. That's not to say everthing said about her was fair, but she opened herself up to the scrutiny.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I agree that Obama is there for all to see, but on that same token Palin made her own bed. First taking the VP nomination, then demosntrating she had no business being there, leaving her post as Governor, then putting herself out there on FOX and with that reality show for all to see, never mind countless comments that made Bachman appear legitimate. Palin wasn't someone in hiding running from the spotlight. That's not to say everthing said about her was fair, but she opened herself up to the scrutiny.

So, to avoid "opening herself up to scrutiny" she should, what, stay home? Turn down a VP nomination? Not do a reality show if asked? You give away the game by saying ". . .she had no business being there." I see, if she'd actually been someone with whom you agreed, then theoretically there might be some limits on the comments directed at her. But not as matters stand now. The point I made, and you avoided, was the "scrutiny" of Sarah Palin has bordered on the criminal, the obsessive, the psychotic and the commentary directed at her exceeds anything I've seen in my life. Except perhaps for the piling on of Barry Goldwater. She's asked for the attention. But she hasn't asked to be accused of responsibility for a mass murder and to have her children made the object of cruel derision and speculation. I look forward to your denunciation of "Trig birthers." Coming soon, no doubt.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I'm not sure exactly what tweeky means, but I don't think I was harping on any issue - just thinking through logically whether it was likely he was or wasn't an AA admit. My conclusion was that he wasn't, so nothing to see here, move along.

Maybe people have become tweeky about what they consider harping?

Sorry, I was about to say...not talking about you,but...

And I probably should have.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I see, if she'd actually been someone with whom you agreed, then theoretically there might be some limits on the comments directed at her.

I already stated that not every remark made toward her was fair, but Palin wasn't some waif in hiding but rather a very recognizable figure up front and visible. Not only did she accept the opportunity to be the VP of the United States of America, but when that dream run ended she remained front and center.

But yeah, keep telling yourself she was an unsuspecting victim of a vast left wing media conspiracy and not an obviously very recognizable figure that wouldn't go away - and certainly not by her own choosing. That will make you feel better.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Another PDS victim. Maybe "Teddy" can dig a lock in the basement. Or we could just put you in the window seat.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Sarah Palin is in this for Sarah Palin. In that respect, she's hardly made a misstep.

John McCain had a competent campaign staff. He wasn't polling that far behind Obama before the crash. If Palin wanted to maximize her "electability," she could have.

All accounts (both critical and friendly) suggest that Palin wasn't interested in advice, wasn't interested in changing her public personality. Since the election, she's done everything in her human power to remain in the spotlight.

You can't be a victim when you're getting everything you want in life.

 

[TimP]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I agree that Obama is there for all to see, but on that same token Palin made her own bed. First taking the VP nomination, then demosntrating she had no business being there, leaving her post as Governor, then putting herself out there on FOX and with that reality show for all to see, never mind countless comments that made Bachman appear legitimate. Palin wasn't someone in hiding running from the spotlight. That's not to say everthing said about her was fair, but she opened herself up to the scrutiny.

Palin brought it on herself and I have yet to hear an unfair comment about her. IIRC, most of the comments directed at her were about her lack of experience, her thirst for power, her intelligence, and her willingness to abandon her family for her personal gain.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Palin brought it on herself and I have yet to hear an unfair comment about her. IIRC, most of the comments directed at her were about her lack of experience, her thirst for power, her intelligence, and her willingness to abandon her family for her personal gain.

Jeez, Teddy's going to be digging locks all day long. Interesting how liberals, who ordinarily back the feminist agenda in every respect, would criticize Palin for "abandoning her family." The very definition of hypocricy. To quote the voluptuous Hillary: "I could have stayed home and baked cookies."

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Sarah Palin is in this for Sarah Palin. In that respect, she's hardly made a misstep.

John McCain had a competent campaign staff. He wasn't polling that far behind Obama before the crash. If Palin wanted to maximize her "electability," she could have.

All accounts (both critical and friendly) suggest that Palin wasn't interested in advice, wasn't interested in changing her public personality. Since the election, she's done everything in her human power to remain in the spotlight.

You can't be a victim when you're getting everything you want in life.

That sounds about right. And could be an accurate description of just about all of our political "leaders." John "two Americas and one "love" child" Edwards comes to mind. I'm not a Palinophile, but I find the inversion of common decency in her case to be an illustration of how our political discourse (on both sides) has degenerated. Tim says he hasn't heard an unfair comment about her. Thus he blames Palin for the mass killing in Tucson and thinks Andrew Sullivan's psychotic rants about Trig Palin's "true" mother are vital to the democracy. Plus, if we can have a few juvenile laughs at the expense of a handicapped child, hey, pass the Cheez Whiz.

Birthers (Obama and Trig), Truthers, Phelpsers and all the rest of the flora and fauna of our political landscape have always been with us. It's just that now we have new media that make it possible for their madness to metastacize to an extent and with a speed not previously possible. As a consequence, we've collectively lowered the standards of our political discourse, perhaps irretrievably.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Palin brought it on herself and I have yet to hear an unfair comment about her. IIRC, most of the comments directed at her were about her lack of experience, her thirst for power, her intelligence, and her willingness to abandon her family for her personal gain.

Sounds like Obama

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Birthers (Obama and Trig), Truthers, Phelpsers and all the rest of the flora and fauna of our political landscape have always been with us. It's just that now we have new media that make it possible for their madness to metastacize to an extent and with a speed not previously possible. As a consequence, we've collectively lowered the standards of our political discourse, perhaps irretrievably.

The standard being lowered is the inevitable result of the end of elitist gatekeeping on that discourse. As you said, it's all always been with us, at the street corner. It just never got on a national carrier because those were controlled by 6 guys from the same graduating class at Princeton and it wasn't couth. New media is the revolution that gave everybody the theoretical power to be heard by everybody else, and when the market determines content the result is always a race to the lowest common denominator. Short of the collective IQ suddenly jumping 50 points, the only solutions (recentralization of media, expanding the ability of public figures to stifle criticism) are worse than the disease.

In the end, it's like noise pollution -- partly an individual decision of how much to let in and partly an unfortunate byproduct of living in a commercial culture.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

The standard being lowered is the inevitable result of the end of elitist gatekeeping on that discourse. As you said, it's all always been with us, at the street corner. It just never got on a national carrier because those were controlled by 6 guys from the same graduating class at Princeton and it wasn't couth. New media is the revolution that gave everybody the theoretical power to be heard by everybody else, and when the market determines content the result is always a race to the lowest common denominator. Short of the collective IQ suddenly jumping 50 points, the only solutions (recentralization of media, expanding the ability of public figures to stifle criticism) are worse than the disease.

In the end, it's like noise pollution -- partly an individual decision of how much to let in and partly an unfortunate byproduct of living in a commercial culture.

And the elitist gate keeping goes on, it's just not as relevant. The three networks are headquartered in NY. And the stories covered every night by their increasingly less important nightly newscasts still generally reflect the front page of the NYT. It's rather quaint to think back not so long ago that the vast majority of Americans got their news at the same time every evening from one of only three sources.