Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

[XYZ]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Where did I say Bush was a fiscal conservative?

Bush was conservative...pure and simple.

So he wasn't, but he was, but only in part, and only per your own definition which is highly flawed in the first place -- and since you never feel like dealing with that point and would rather label people "subhuman", you drool out unspecific tripe about "social conservatism" over and over and over and over until anyone who is paying attention wants to stab themself in the face with a spork.

Bush wasn't a conservative by any reasonable stretch of the word. He was a clownass. The same way your "I used to be a Republican sort of maybe and would be all onboard, BUT" act isn't reasonable by any stretch of the imagination and I hope to hell doesn't fool anybody. You're a clownass, too. I gotta ask: Do you and Todd Patten bareback in your free time? Or is it a self-suck?

By the way, I live in Vadnais Heights, MN. I need to vote this November. Is your "friend" in my district? If so, give me a call. I want you to lay down to me how this "friend" of yours pandered in order to get the nomination, and then told your all-important *** all about it. You even specified which direction from St. Paul his district is supposedly in. Yeah, that's brilliant on your part. Were it true, of course.

But let's do it. Call me and lay it out.

I'll post my phone number here if you really want. Your act is old and tired....and again, sure as hell shouldn't fool anyone.

Go back to your yacht off Serbia and Montenegro and count the millions in your portfolio and quit wasting the time of everyone else here.

And yes, you won't reply, I know. Why do I do this, do you (or anyone else) ask? Because you know I know exactly what I'm talking about -- and you want nothing to do with it.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

And yes, you won't reply, I know. Why do I do this, do you (or anyone else) ask? Because you know I know exactly what I'm talking about -- and you want nothing to do with it.

Someone who shall remain nameLess alter ego?

 

[pirate]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

How can you be a conservative if you aren't a fiscally conservative?

there are folks on here who can name the theory but it goes something like this...since conservative Bush spent lots of money on a war, then he was not fiscally conservative, which means he wasn't really a conservative, which means all reds aren't conservatives, which means all reds will always spend just as much as a blue, which is why spending is not really a matter of distinction between the two parties at this time...at least I think that is what is being said

that the war in Afghanistan is generally agreed with and the war in Iraq is universally recognized as a huge mistake doesn't really impact the line of thinking apparently

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

there are folks on here who can name the theory but it goes something like this...since conservative Bush spent lots of money on a war, then he was not fiscally conservative, which means he wasn't really a conservative, which means all reds aren't conservatives, which means all reds will always spend just as much as a blue, which is why spending is not really a matter of distinction between the two parties at this time...at least I think that is what is being said

that the war in Afghanistan is generally agreed with and the war in Iraq is universally recognized as a huge mistake doesn't really impact the line of thinking apparently

I think the theory is named "half a century of experience"

At the end of the day both parties - and politicians in both parties - stand for the same thing. Getting (re)elected. Neither party wants to make tough decisions.

Which is why spending increases. Always. Regardless of GOP control, Dem control, or divided gov't.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

there are folks on here who can name the theory but it goes something like this...since conservative Bush spent lots of money on a war, then he was not fiscally conservative, which means he wasn't really a conservative, which means all reds aren't conservatives, which means all reds will always spend just as much as a blue, which is why spending is not really a matter of distinction between the two parties at this time...at least I think that is what is being said

that the war in Afghanistan is generally agreed with and the war in Iraq is universally recognized as a huge mistake doesn't really impact the line of thinking apparently

I realize folks see republicans as the "conservative" party, but I don't. They may be socially conservative, they may be neocons but if they aren't fiscally conservative, they aren't conservative

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

I realize folks see republicans as the "conservative" party, but I don't.

you're right. Take off some window dressing about gay marriage and 3% in taxes here and there, and we've really had a one-party system for big-spending subsidizers for a long time. It's time to shake things up and cut some big chunks out of the budget.
a pipe dream, I know

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Nothing particularly spectacular. Krugman, who will get pooh-poohed as a shill for the left (and economically, I think he's Keynesian, so has an obvious pro-stimulus bias), though an economic question is at least within his general area of expertise. I think there was another along the same lines—arguing that inasmuch as things haven't gotten much better, they would have been even worse with no stimulus at all. It's by no means the last word, but there's at least some background there.

Contra, all I have is an assertion. I'm truly interested in a well-founded contrary argument.

Paul Krugman loves spending money, preferably other people's. That's been the point of virtually every column he's written in the past 6 months, whining and moaning about how we aren't spending enough money.

Look at it by the President's own standards. The White House claimed 3.3 million jobs would be created (not saved, created). That didn't come close to happening. By passing the stimulus, they were supposed to keep unemployment below 8%, it rose as high as 10%, and looks like it's pretty stagnant around 9.6% right now.

So, it's fine for people who voted for or supported the stimulus to say, "Without the stimulus, things would have been much worse." But looking at their previous predictions, why should anyone believe them?

The Heritage Institute-hey, if you can cite Krugman - points out some repeated examples of the failure of stimulus.

# During the 1930s, New Deal lawmakers doubled federal spending--yet unemployment remained above 20 percent until World War II.
# Japan responded to a 1990 recession by passing 10 stimulus spending bills over 8 years (building the largest national debt in the industrialized world)--yet its economy remained stagnant.
# In 2001, President Bush responded to a recession by "injecting" tax rebates into the economy. The economy did not respond until two years later, when tax rate reductions were implemented.
# In 2008, President Bush tried to head off the current recession with another round of tax rebates. The recession continued to worsen.
# Now, the most recent $787 billion stimulus bill was intended to keep the unemployment rate from exceeding 8 percent. In November, it topped 10 percent

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Nothing particularly spectacular. Krugman, who will get pooh-poohed as a shill for the left (and economically, I think he's Keynesian, so has an obvious pro-stimulus bias), though an economic question is at least within his general area of expertise. I think there was another along the same lines—arguing that inasmuch as things haven't gotten much better, they would have been even worse with no stimulus at all. It's by no means the last word, but there's at least some background there.

Contra, all I have is an assertion. I'm truly interested in a well-founded contrary argument.

I'm not sure why you rely on Krugman? I haven't seen a plank of the Democratic party that he hasn't been reflexively for even if the economics of it doesn't look so hot.

Aside from that, its very doubtful Dr. Krugman has spent any time in the serious analysis of the "saved" jobs metric that the Obama administration has dallied in... a serious analysis will take a few grad students and a good amount of time. The point of the stimulus was not to stimulate... it was to promote favortism in the democratic base. That's why jobs were focused on construction and not in a manner to promote efficiency. Its also why the stimulus was spread over a few years... its for payola over a time period to aid Democrats.... not a shot in the arm now to help the economy pull through. Very little of the stimulus was intended for the near term... just as they argued that it would be.

edit: you want to stimulate the economy... give people the confidence that they can put their money somewhere and they'll see some form of return or at least give them enough confidence that they'll risk it.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

How can you be a conservative if you aren't a fiscally conservative?

Do a simple google search...definition after definition, defines conservatism approx as Websters definition 'tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions'. Frankly the only thing conservative about a fiscal conservative is the misnomer label.

Conservatives have consistently elected government representation that has spent and have supported them during that spending. And even with all policies and their outcomes, conservatives constituted the lions share of the support for Bush even as the US was sailing into financial crisis in 2009. Do the math on the following poll...with nearly 40% of Americans being conservative, the vast majority of support for W was conservative:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/113083/conservative-republicans-still-widely-support-bush.aspx

You ask how a conservative cannot be a fiscal conservative...but when it comes to action, I have yet to see conservatives by and large actually be fiscal conservatives.

OK...now enough questions of me...its your turn. Show me evidence that says that conservatives are largely fiscal conservative.

So he wasn't, but he was, but only in part, and only per your own definition which is highly flawed in the first place -- and since you never feel like dealing with that point and would rather label people "subhuman", you drool out unspecific tripe about "social conservatism" over and over and over and over until anyone who is paying attention wants to stab themself in the face with a spork.

Bush wasn't a conservative by any reasonable stretch of the word. He was a clownass. The same way your "I used to be a Republican sort of maybe and would be all onboard, BUT" act isn't reasonable by any stretch of the imagination and I hope to hell doesn't fool anybody. You're a clownass, too. I gotta ask: Do you and Todd Patten bareback in your free time? Or is it a self-suck?

By the way, I live in Vadnais Heights, MN. I need to vote this November. Is your "friend" in my district? If so, give me a call. I want you to lay down to me how this "friend" of yours pandered in order to get the nomination, and then told your all-important *** all about it. You even specified which direction from St. Paul his district is supposedly in. Yeah, that's brilliant on your part. Were it true, of course.

But let's do it. Call me and lay it out.

I'll post my phone number here if you really want. Your act is old and tired....and again, sure as hell shouldn't fool anyone.

Go back to your yacht off Serbia and Montenegro and count the millions in your portfolio and quit wasting the time of everyone else here.

And yes, you won't reply, I know. Why do I do this, do you (or anyone else) ask? Because you know I know exactly what I'm talking about -- and you want nothing to do with it.

If you want further info about the Becici properties...let me know. But I don't think its wise to give out contact information to seemlingly obsessive strangers who seem to be cataloging your life.

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Do a simple google search...definition after definition, defines conservatism approx as Websters definition 'tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions'. Frankly the only thing conservative about a fiscal conservative is the misnomer label.

the dictionary isn't going to define "progressivism" as "limit-based communism" either... I'm not sure the dictionary is the best way to define a political movement.

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Confirmed: Bob Woodward is an abject moron

As if you didn't already know. Why do I get the feeling that Watergate was the happiest accident of this mushhead's life?

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Conservatives have consistently elected government representation that has spent and have supported them during that spending. And even with all policies and their outcomes, conservatives constituted the lions share of the support for Bush even as the US was sailing into financial crisis in 2009. Do the math on the following poll...with nearly 40% of Americans being conservative, the vast majority of support for W was conservative:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/113083/conservative-republicans-still-widely-support-bush.aspx

You ask how a conservative cannot be a fiscal conservative...but when it comes to action, I have yet to see conservatives by and large actually be fiscal conservatives.

OK...now enough questions of me...its your turn. Show me evidence that says that conservatives are largely fiscal conservative.

.

To you, Republican and conservative seem to be interchangeable, to me they aren't. Evidence?, if they aren't fiscally conservative, they aren't conservative, why do you need any more than that?

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

To you, Republican and conservative seem to be interchangeable, to me they aren't. Evidence?, if they aren't fiscally conservative, they aren't conservative, why do you need any more than that?

I understand its your position...but that's not what the numbers show.

Conservatives consistently support politicians who spend.

the dictionary isn't going to define "progressivism" as "limit-based communism" either... I'm not sure the dictionary is the best way to define a political movement.

...and conservatism is the ideology of racism. Whatever.

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

...and conservatism is the ideology of racism. Whatever.

good to know that you believe that... I see we're still stuck in 1980.

ok then, you define progressivism... what are they progressing to? an abstract? a specific?

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

I understand its your position...but that's not what the numbers show.

Conservatives consistently support politicians who spend.

Politicians don't show it because there is no ribbon cutting ceremony for cutting budgets, as much as all of us conservatives want budgets cut and programs slashed, we all use them and its very difficult to cut them. Spending is what gains votes, its sad but true. Politicians, even the republicans, care more about the next election than actually being fiscally responsible. I can't argue with your general assessment that politicians aren't fiscally conservative, but that doesn't mean we can't try. If we don't try, this country is going to get flushed down a toilet because we can't keep borrowing trillions of dollars we don't have and expect to remain the great country we are...

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

So he wasn't, but he was, but only in part, and only per your own definition which is highly flawed in the first place -- and since you never feel like dealing with that point and would rather label people "subhuman", you drool out unspecific tripe about "social conservatism" over and over and over and over until anyone who is paying attention wants to stab themself in the face with a spork.

Bush wasn't a conservative by any reasonable stretch of the word. He was a clownass. The same way your "I used to be a Republican sort of maybe and would be all onboard, BUT" act isn't reasonable by any stretch of the imagination and I hope to hell doesn't fool anybody. You're a clownass, too. I gotta ask: Do you and Todd Patten bareback in your free time? Or is it a self-suck?

By the way, I live in Vadnais Heights, MN. I need to vote this November. Is your "friend" in my district? If so, give me a call. I want you to lay down to me how this "friend" of yours pandered in order to get the nomination, and then told your all-important *** all about it. You even specified which direction from St. Paul his district is supposedly in. Yeah, that's brilliant on your part. Were it true, of course.

But let's do it. Call me and lay it out.

I'll post my phone number here if you really want. Your act is old and tired....and again, sure as hell shouldn't fool anyone.

Go back to your yacht off Serbia and Montenegro and count the millions in your portfolio and quit wasting the time of everyone else here.

And yes, you won't reply, I know. Why do I do this, do you (or anyone else) ask? Because you know I know exactly what I'm talking about -- and you want nothing to do with it.

Bush was not a conservative...but the conservatives around sure as hell worshiped him like he was one. (remember the Conservative Coalition chanting "4 more years" when he was stumping for McCain?) Especially the ones around here...none of you were out front ripping him a new one you just attacked the Lefties who did it since you hated them more. The conservatives latched onto him until they saw the writing on the wall in '07, none of them had the balls to go against the Rove Machine and the posters around here were either silent or backed him since he had an R by his name.

So while, once again 5mn shows he has no actual political knowledge and lacks the rudimentary understanding of the political spectrum that even my High School students have, lets not pretend that Bush wasn't getting leg humped by the conservatives like they were dogs in heat ok?

 

[pirate]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

you're right. Take off some window dressing about gay marriage and 3% in taxes here and there, and we've really had a one-party system for big-spending subsidizers for a long time. It's time to shake things up and cut some big chunks out of the budget.
a pipe dream, I know

well, apparently the only way you can be against government over-spending is if you also carry a bible and a gun and the only way you can be inclusive and open-minded is if you also think that the only way to solve things is if the government spends a billion dollars to do it. Column A or column B?

And people just line up their nose with the *** in front of them and follow them into one of two lines...they get a smile once in a while when their line is moving faster than the other, and they frown when it slows up...all along never asking "hey, where does this line go to and what is that really loud banging sound up ahead?"

I've had plenty of bad stuff to say about political parties, but the problem really is people that don't have enough guts to stand up to the stuff their party does that they don't believe in

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

well, apparently the only way you can be against government over-spending is if you also carry a bible and a gun and the only way you can be inclusive and open-minded is if you also think that the only way to solve things is if the government spends a billion dollars to do it. Column A or column B?

And people just line up their nose with the *** in front of them and follow them into one of two lines...they get a smile once in a while when their line is moving faster than the other, and they frown when it slows up...all along never asking "hey, where does this line go to and what is that really loud banging sound up ahead?"

I've had plenty of bad stuff to say about political parties, but the problem really is people that don't have enough guts to stand up to the stuff their party does that they don't believe in

that is a problem... which is the basis for the creation of the tea party movement; conservatives who are unhappy with the dearth of conservative candidates. As for their likely continued migration to social conservatism, I'm the wrong guy to ask as I'm rather fond of both my bible and my gun; although I'd rather the government didn't take notice of either nor pass any laws governing their use or lack thereof.

 

[Slap Shot]

So clever.....blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...So fly away little lefty boy.

Give me an, "H", give me a, "Y", give me a, "P"....

btw, lefty boy? Yeah, I'm always in here yammering on behalf of Obama, raising taxes, health care reform, terrorist sympathizers and the like.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

So you're argument is: Fiscal conservatives don't exist. But Bush was one!

Compelling.

All the conservatives voted for him. All the conservatives loved him. As long as they got their tax cut they were happy as clams.

And that's ALL they really want now. Dollars to doughnuts that's all that comes out of this NEW SUPPOSED fiscal conservative movement. The Bush tax cuts were the top of the mountain.