Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

the republicans have recently moved around their calendar as well... very specifically making all primaries before a certain date (April or May) proportional splits as opposed to all or nothings to avoid the quick/early pick of a lousy candidate (McCain). Though, that has much to do with an open primary system as anything else. Dems have been for "Operation Chaos" until it turned back on them.

I think I had heard about this on POTUS, but it was a recommendation from somebody like the League of Women Voters for both parties. IIRC they also recommended regional super primaries so the candidates didn't just fly into an airport, make their stump speech for the local media, then fly out. They also recommended coordination between the parties to save resources and prevent malicious cross-primary tampering.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Ok, smartass, tell us how should we move objects from point A to point B.

... how about with the hot air coming out of him every time he posts on here?

Oh wait, we can't do that either - global warming.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Where can one drill on land? What other forms of energy, what alternatives.

I have no idea what your point is. Is it to just ask an infinite loop of questions? If so, go do your own research. If you point is that you believe that there are no other energy alternatives to deep sea drilling then this conversation has gone on way too long already.

Priceless offered personal opinion that bans were valid due to environmental danger and damage. And others gave weak analogies inferring that he was against all energy. Its no more complicated than that.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

I have no idea what your point is. Is it to just ask an infinite loop of questions? If so, go do your own research. If you point is that you believe that there are no other energy alternatives to deep sea drilling then this conversation has gone on way too long already.
.

It was a simple question. I guess you can't answer it

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

It was a simple question. I guess you can't answer it

Well, see, if we built this REALLY big solar panel, then we could all just move out of our houses and live under that, so we really wouldn't need any transportation...

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

It was a simple question. I guess you can't answer it

Wrong again.

You've supplied no reason why I should.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Priceless offered personal opinion that bans were valid due to environmental danger and damage. And others gave weak analogies inferring that he was against all energy. Its no more complicated than that.

They weren't weak analogies - they were targeting his misguided notion that one accident justifies shutting down an industry. The safety record / reliability of deep sea rigs trumps that of oil tankers - should we shut down the oil shipping industry too?

And guess what? If we shut down our deep sea drilling operations, we'll cut domestic oil production significantly - which will have to be made up by importing more oil via tankers. What a great solution.

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

They weren't weak analogies - they were targeting his misguided notion that one accident justifies shutting down an industry. The safety record / reliability of deep sea rigs trumps that of oil tankers - should we shut down the oil shipping industry too?

And guess what? If we shut down our deep sea drilling operations, we'll cut domestic oil production significantly - which will have to be made up by importing more oil via tankers. What a great solution.

especially at a time where such a balance issue becomes a more critical budget issue... you also lose the tax revenue and you've unemployed a bunch of folks.

There's a reason to make trade-offs... but the problem is that we're absolutely truly ignorant about the situation... the whole lot of us. That goes from the oil men (not being cognizant of their own underlying costs and environmental hazards) to the enviromentalists (not being cognizant of economic costs and the prices of their ideals) to the rest of us (ignorant on both).

Nobody really wants to say it because we all act like we know it all. Our politicians are just as ignorant as the rest of us... which while it isn't comforting its an accurate summary of the situation.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

They weren't weak analogies - they were targeting his misguided notion that one accident justifies shutting down an industry.

Priceless' comment was only that there are huge risks to the environment of off shore drilling. Just a couple of bad analogies include:

You should never breathe, because you might breathe noxious chemicals.

Let's let the British stomp on our d*ks in 1776.

If youre signing up for defending the analogies...tell me how concern for the risks of one form of drilling is the same as not defending our country or not breathing.

 

[XYZ]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Priceless' comment was only that there are huge risks to the environment of off shore drilling. Just a couple of bad analogies include:

You should never breathe, because you might breathe noxious chemicals.

Let's let the British stomp on our d*ks in 1776.

If youre signing up for defending the analogies...tell me how concern for the risks of one form of drilling is the same as not defending our country or not breathing.

Walrus' question to you was: "Where can one drill on land? What other forms of energy, what alternatives."

Which was asked in response to your suggestion that there are better options out there.

Name them. Now. Or be quiet.

 

[Tundra]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Walrus' question to you was: "Where can one drill on land? What other forms of energy, what alternatives."

Which was asked in response to your suggestion that there are better options out there.

Name them. Now. Or be quiet.

Looking at the map we should be test drilling Texas, Alaska, California in unexplored areas. OR we should test drill in Washington, Oregon and the other 19 states without any oil rigs. I didn't realize we're 3rd largest oil producer, but we also consume more than next 25 countries combined. And we import 15million bpd and produce 5milion bpd (so 1m bpd Alaska, 1.5m bpd Gulf, around 1.5m from Texas and 1m from the rest)

Um I think we need to ween ourselves from CHEAP subsizdized oil. Basically our production fell with the oil price drop in the 1985-86 when we heavily subsidized oil companies and it's been working great (for the oil companies). Less production. more imports and big subsidy that we can't get rid of.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/facts/2006_fcvt_fotw439.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/07/26/GR2008072601599.html

 

[sagard]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Walrus' question to you was: "Where can one drill on land? What other forms of energy, what alternatives."

Don't drill on land anywhere. Leave our remaining oil as an actual asset to be used by future generations to go along with our gift of virtually insurmountable debt. I'm sure my grand kids will thank me for that.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Don't drill on land anywhere. Leave our remaining oil as an actual asset to be used by future generations to go along with our gift of virtually insurmountable debt. I'm sure my grand kids will thank me for that.

Not to mention that if we hold our reserves they will be worth proportionately more when everybody else's runs out. We have the luxury to do that, one-resource economies don't. Imagine us as the 2100 Saudi Arabia.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Not to mention that if we hold our reserves they will be worth proportionately more when everybody else's runs out. We have the luxury to do that, one-resource economies don't. Imagine us as the 2100 Saudi Arabia.

Which would be an absolutely fantastic strategy, if we could stop using so much oil ourselves. If we reduce production without reducing demand, then we'll just be importing that much more oil today, leaving our kids with proportionally more debt, too.

Not only that, but this thought process implicitly assumes that our production will exceed our own demand some day, so that we'd have surplus to sell on the world market. If we continue to use it all ourselves, we'll just be the fat guy who opens a doughnut shop - not going to be very profitable.

The only way out of the (long-term) energy mess is to reduce demand. Since that's not going to happen, I'm just hanging on for the ride - going to be a doozy!

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Walrus' question to you was: "Where can one drill on land? What other forms of energy, what alternatives."

Which was asked in response to your suggestion that there are better options out there.

I answered his first question...and am not going to answer an endless series of questions without a valid point to it.

Name them. Now. Or be quiet.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

They weren't weak analogies - they were targeting his misguided notion that one accident justifies shutting down an industry. The safety record / reliability of deep sea rigs trumps that of oil tankers - should we shut down the oil shipping industry too?

And guess what? If we shut down our deep sea drilling operations, we'll cut domestic oil production significantly - which will have to be made up by importing more oil via tankers. What a great solution.

Our nation is frought with inconsistencies, where we freak out about one possible threat of some source, because something highlights it in the news, but don't worry about lots of other more likely threats all around us. We are fundamentally a reactionary country. Once we could get away with being so, but increasingly, we will pay for such lack of foresight and reasoned thinking. But, as with so many things, this will fall primarily on future generations.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Boy, its a good thing we have people like Sen. Gregg speaking truth to power and warning about exploding deficits:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/38205194

I don't suppose he had anything to do with that unfunded perscription drug mandate thingy back during the last GOP Congress....

I mean, clearly he must have been against that, hence he be labeled as a hypocrite.....

Deficit spending is deficit spending, right, it shouldn't matter what party the President is in...

Lets check the roll call, shall we?

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=1&vote=00457

What an idiot.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Which would be an absolutely fantastic strategy, if we could stop using so much oil ourselves. If we reduce production without reducing demand, then we'll just be importing that much more oil today, leaving our kids with proportionally more debt, too.

My hope/assumption is we make up the difference by developing energy-efficient technologies and also developing alternative energy sources. We can use both to reduce our reliance on oil purchases, and also sell both to other countries to improve our trade deficit. Some usages will probably always require oil, and that's what we hold on to our reserves to supply.

"Our" oil is a misnomer, of course. It's Exxon's oil and they sell it to whoever will buy. IIRC at the height of the Prudhoe Bay production they were selling most of it to Japan -- it wasn't helping the US at all. If we nationalized the oil industry there would be an argument that oil under American ice is more "ours" than oil under Saudi sands. The leases are what really matter, and the fix is in as far as the government granting the oil companies leases (recall who ran the country for 8 years, and what their agenda was).

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

what their agenda was).

That's disgusting. It's worse than the farmers (who would have a hard time claiming a Marshall Islands HQ).

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

well, yeah...

researchers at the University of Michigan found that when misinformed people, particularly political partisans, were exposed to corrected facts in news stories, they rarely changed their minds. In fact, they often became even more strongly set in their beliefs. Facts, they found, were not curing misinformation. Like an underpowered antibiotic, facts could actually make misinformation even stronger.