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Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

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Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

geezer said:
well, yeah...
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All too true. And one of the reasons why people who just say if we educated people better, all sorts of problems go away, are so off-base. Education is a good thing, but hardly the cure-all it's presented as sometimes. A lot of very smart, knowledgeable people have caused a whole lot of trouble throughout the history of the world. Kinda makes you wish those folks weren't so smart or knowledgeable.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

"Most people believe what they want to believe and make up reasons for it afterwards."

On balance, though, education is the best tool we have. You can't fix stupid but you can fix ignorant. What people do with that knowledge is of course up to them. If you are aware of things like this, for instance, your world view might slightly change, and you might not be so gullible when somebody tries to exploit it. Being aware there are psychological effects like selective perception or confirmation bias may not help you but it can't hurt.

Here are some other fun ways where your "common sense" may be lying to you.
 
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Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Eden Prairie, MN was just called the best place to live in the US...by CNN/Money. In fact, twin cities suburbs had 5 of the top 20 cities including last years winner Plymouth. One could make the case that missing are the best city by many measures, Edina, and the suburb that is sandwiched between this years national winner and last years national winner, Minnetonka. Whatever the state's been doing...its been doing well.

We are in an age of market competition...that is to say each metro area is competing with other metro areas for inhabitants and businesses. A city or state can compete a variety of ways. For example, states can offer low taxes to pull to get immigrants from around the country. Minnesota competes differently...it doesn't have the lowest taxes, but attempts to develop a superior quality of life. Indeed, IMO a state like Minnesota would potentially get smoked by a warm weather state like Texas if it went for cheap taxes and a corresponding step down in quality of life.

The adequate tax and superior quality metro approach of the twin cities appears to working extremely well...as an exceptional quality of life as is shown in the CNN survey is driving a business climate year in and out as well as one could imagine from the north plains.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

5mn_Major said:
minnesota minnesota rah rah rah
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These things are so subjective as to be worthless. I lived in Wayzata and worked in Eden Prairie for three years, and very nearly died from having my soul starved for something such as I did last evening, picked 5 quarts of blueberries on the shore of Lake Superior while seeing a total of one other person (who, incidentally was in a bikini on an ATV). Quality of life is the furthest thing from financial wealth.
That said, as far as cities go it's true I haven't seen a better one (leaving out the demented cloverleafs). Detroit or Chicago would kill me in two weeks.

Back on track, Obama continues to find new polling lows. If this is now, how's he going to push the "hard choices" he's promising? Are conservatives going to start supporting him as his base flees? It'll be interesting next year, with a more conservative legislature. I'm hoping he'll go all Clinton and start finding the legendary middle.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

geezer said:
These things are so subjective as to be worthless. ...

That said, as far as cities go it's true I haven't seen a better one (leaving out the demented cloverleafs).
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So to sum...the poll is worthless but based on your experience, accurate.

I remain happy that local taxes have been invested so well...and remain a supporter of the state's approach of taxing as needed to optimize quality of life.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

5mn_Major said:
So to sum...the poll is worthless but based on your experience, accurate.
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exactly. :p

But again, it's "as far as cities go", concerning the (lack of) quality of life. Let's have a poll, would you rather have your head beaten in by a baseball bat, a 4 iron, or your own dismembered limb?
"Research indicates that most people wish to be beaten to death by golf clubs!"

yeah, it's just me, and the 14 other yoopers.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

geezer said:
Please elaborate. You don't think it'll be harder to deficit spend next year?
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The Republicans are in no way fiscally "conservative." I think there will be less spending next year because (a) the economy will continue to improve so TARP and its ilk will be no longer needed, and (b) any increase in "friction" -- it could as easily be the Dems and the Whigs -- gives some cover to cut or at least slow the increase of some popular spending.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Kepler said:
The Republicans are in no way fiscally "conservative." I think there will be less spending next year because (a) the economy will continue to improve so TARP and its ilk will be no longer needed, and (b) any increase in "friction" -- it could as easily be the Dems and the Whigs -- gives some cover to cut or at least slow the increase of some popular spending.
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The batch that were tossed in 2006 and 2008 (and rightly so) for failure to be fiscally conservative may have served as a wakeup call to the new GOP.

If not, I hope and pray that the conservative media hold their feet to the fire and let the American public know that they are fiscal whores. Then it's rinse and repeat ad infinitum until there is a revolution.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Kepler said:
The Republicans are in no way fiscally "conservative." I think there will be less spending next year because (a) the economy will continue to improve so TARP and its ilk will be no longer needed, and (b) any increase in "friction" -- it could as easily be the Dems and the Whigs -- gives some cover to cut or at least slow the increase of some popular spending.
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Well, that's what I said: It'll be more conservative next year. The Tea Party/Fiscal Restraint movement has little to do with the Republicans of the recent past, although many will be elected under that name.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

joecct said:
If not, I hope and pray that the conservative media hold their feet to the fire and let the American public know that they are fiscal whores. Then it's rinse and repeat ad infinitum until there is a revolution.
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Oh yeah, like that'll happen. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Kepler said:
The Republicans are in no way fiscally "conservative." I think there will be less spending next year because (a) the economy will continue to improve so TARP and its ilk will be no longer needed, and (b) any increase in "friction" -- it could as easily be the Dems and the Whigs -- gives some cover to cut or at least slow the increase of some popular spending.
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I think your (a) is going to have some serious problems... I'm not even sure what you mean by (b) unless you some how think the Republicans will make themselves irrelevant.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Kepler said:
The Republicans are in no way fiscally "conservative." I think there will be less spending next year because (a) the economy will continue to improve so TARP and its ilk will be no longer needed, and (b) any increase in "friction" -- it could as easily be the Dems and the Whigs -- gives some cover to cut or at least slow the increase of some popular spending.
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I also think the deficit...will be reduced going forward. I do expect spending to decrease due to business/consumer spending starting to pick up the slack...and the need for govt to fill the gap via stimulus easing.

Also, there is the whole revenue side of the equation which will help the income side of the equation as the economy recovers.

joecct said:
The batch that were tossed in 2006 and 2008 (and rightly so) for failure to be fiscally conservative may have served as a wakeup call to the new GOP.

If not, I hope and pray that the conservative media hold their feet to the fire and let the American public know that they are fiscal whores. Then it's rinse and repeat ad infinitum until there is a revolution.
Click to expand...

Got to agree with Kep here. The GOP has flashes of fiscal prudence...pretty much only when theyre trying to get the reigns of power. As we discussed before, the GOP has its own pet projects that it wants to fund when it gets into power.

And the problem with conservative media is that they tend to be so ideological that when the GOP has control it tends to just continue to flatter the party as its emphasis is stuck on an anti Dem platform. This is what happened thoughout the whole last decade. There will be no reality check via the conservative media.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

5mn_Major said:
And the problem with conservative media is that they tend to be so ideological that when the GOP has control it tends to just continue to flatter the party as its emphasis is stuck on an anti Dem platform. This is what happened thoughout the whole last decade. There will be no reality check via the conservative media.
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Very true. I saw screaming headline stories on ABC and WaPo yesterday, "Obama continues to lose support," and it was a dramatic reminder you would never see such a negative story about the GOP in the Echo Chamber RNC Propaganda Arm. I see this with my conservative coworkers, too -- people who watch or listen to that stuff religiously and are chock full of "fiscal prudence" when the Democrats are in power have all their excuses queued up when their own guys get in -- the words are verbatim, right from whatever demagogue feeds them. There is never any accountability from that side.

You have to hand it to Roger Ailes. He set out with the specific goal to create an alternative, fictional world and insulate the already parochial and undereducated GOP base from facts that might threaten their world view (and electoral strength), and he achieved it. The 28%ers are completely inoculated against reality. The decades pass, the very people who march lemminglike to the polls are laughed at by the RNC elites, and nothing changes. Talk about a welfare farm -- this is even funnier, since there isn't even any upside.

So who is going to hold the GOP's feet to the fire in the conservative media? Karl Rove, Victor Davis Hanson, Jonah Goldberg? Don't make me laugh.
 
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Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Kepler said:
Very true. I saw screaming headline stories on ABC and WaPo yesterday, "Obama continues to lose support," and it was a dramatic reminder you would never see such a negative story about the GOP in the Echo Chamber RNC Propaganda Arm.
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Did you type this with a straight face? ABC/WaPo and Rush/Hannity is an apples-to-oranges comparison.

Partisan is partisan. If you want to claim that the left has the moral high ground on media fairness, please show us some links to "screaming headlines" at something like moveon, Huffington, etc that are negative about Obama. (hint: they're as rare as Hannity pieces that are negative about the GOP).
 
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