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Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

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Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Kepler said:
Dr. Schertz heads a pressure group that opposes ObamaCare, so by "good article" you presumably mean "predictable hatchet job by a political stooge"
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90% of the column relies completely on the nominee's (Donald Berwick) direct quotes. So if there is a hatchet job, it's self-inflicted.
That said, he has some good points though stated poorly ("the darkness of private enterprises"???) Rationing is here, and will get worse. This thing will require some hard choices. There is no "universal human right" to the latest and greatest health care, however much we'd wish it so.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

The following documentary is based 100% on quotes. That must mean Nancy and Ron are responsible for the hatchet job. :D

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Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Al and Tipper Gore are separating.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

geezer said:
90% of the column relies completely on the nominee's (Donald Berwick) direct quotes. So if there is a hatchet job, it's self-inflicted.
That said, he has some good points though stated poorly ("the darkness of private enterprises"???) Rationing is here, and will get worse. This thing will require some hard choices. There is no "universal human right" to the latest and greatest health care, however much we'd wish it so.
Click to expand...

You know as well as I that you can build a case for any impression from someone's quotes. It's part of framing the debate about someone, and there's no better practitioners than our fun loving friends from the right fringe (not that the left doesn't try, and I'm sure they'll eventually reach the same level of cynical manipulation that Ailes & Co. perfected).

This is just another case of a full-time political activist broadcasting talking points while using his title to hide his partisanship. Here it's a doctor, during the Iraq War it was brass -- it's all the same game.
 
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Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Kepler said:
You know as well as I that you can build a case for any impression from someone's quotes.
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No doubt, but with quotes like these there's no need for manipulation (although this guy does it anyway with the editorializing; I'm not defending his impartiality).
Regarding Al & Tipper - it's sad. Remember "The Kiss" that was to restore marital fidelity and passion to the White House? But honestly - who could stay married to him?
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

moe24 said:
He was unhappy with her carbon footprint and she was unhappy finding out he lied about inventing the internet.
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She found out about his affair with Mother Earth. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Rover said:
Ummmm, Bill, I hate to be the one to inform you of this, but the ship on the health care debate has already sailed. I think they took some sort of vote a couple of months ago? :confused: Got lots of coverage. Maybe you heard about it? :D
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Never too early to start dripping acid on it. These are the guys who want to roll back social security and medicare since, you know, those were comm-y-nist mileposts on the road to serfdom (as were child labor laws, unions, the FDA, unemployment insurance...) :p :rolleyes:
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Kepler said:
Never too early to start dripping acid on it. These are the guys who want to roll back social security and medicare since, you know, those were comm-y-nist mileposts on the road to serfdom. :p :rolleyes:
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You can't really believe that Social Security and Medicare are fine the way they are though?
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

WeWantMore said:
You can't really believe that Social Security and Medicare are fine the way they are though?
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I can and will. They are general ledger items for the Feds. If the system had been set up where all money funded to the two programs was ONLY used for the two programs it's likely D-Day wouldn't have come so soon. That's why the "lockbox" idea was thrown around.

Instead your government "borrowed" from these two solvent programs to fund other things giving us "more services" than we were really paying for and destroying the services we were paying for.

Now the only way to balance the budget is to cut Medicare and Social Security so we can pay for all the other crap that we think we need.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

WeWantMore said:
You can't really believe that Social Security and Medicare are fine the way they are though?
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No, programs can always be improved (and indeed a true comprehensive health care coverage would obviate the need for medicare). But there is a small ideologically- (or in far more cases, financially-) motivated group who always sounds the klaxons that any social program is "the death knell of America," and they have been long since repudiated by their own Chicken Little rhetoric.

I'd rather have social security and medicare as they currently are, warts and all, than to have nothing and leave us all at the tender mercy of the tyranny of large corporations and the markets they manipulate.
 
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Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Kepler said:
No, programs can always be improved (and indeed a true comprehensive health care coverage would obviate the need for medicare). But there is a small ideologically- (or in far more cases, financially-) motivated group who always sounds the klaxons that any social program is "the death knell of America," and they have been long since repudiated by their own Chicken Little rhetoric.

I'd rather have social security and medicare as they currently are, warts and all, than to have nothing and leave us all at the tender mercy of the tyranny of large corporations and the markets they manipulate.
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Sure. I don't think too many (serious) politicians are suggesting that we have nothing at all though. However, the retirement age probably does need to be rolled back, maybe some means testing, there's a whole host of ideas, admittedly I'm not too well versed in the specifics of them.

So when you say, "This is the party that wants to roll back Social Security and Medicare", then what exactly are you arguing against?
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

WeWantMore said:
Sure. I don't think too many (serious) politicians are suggesting that we have nothing at all though. However, the retirement age probably does need to be rolled back, maybe some means testing, there's a whole host of ideas, admittedly I'm not too well versed in the specifics of them.

So when you say, "This is the party that wants to roll back Social Security and Medicare", then what exactly are you arguing against?
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Fear-mongering garbage like this.

I agree that the retirement age should be increased, all entitlement programs should be means-tested thus making them all insurance and not entitlements, and the social security cap should be abolished. If the GOP agreed with the latter two ideas they might start to establish themselves as arguing in good faith. Until then, it's just business as usual with them protecting their donors.
 
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Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Rover said:
Ummmm, Bill, I hate to be the one to inform you of this, but the ship on the health care debate has already sailed. I think they took some sort of vote a couple of months ago? :confused: Got lots of coverage. Maybe you heard about it? :D
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you mean the one where they lied like crazy and then had to re-estimate some of that "CBO scoring" after the bill had passed... you know... the scoring that said... yeah, this is deficit neutral if you consider hundred of billions of debt to be neutral. The one that's already showing signals of 50% increases in insurance prices.

I think I heard about that.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Kepler said:
Dr. Schertz heads a pressure group that opposes ObamaCare, so by "good article" you presumably mean "predictable hatchet job by a political stooge":

I Hates the ObamaCare
I Really Hates the ObamaCare
Stamps Feet and Froths at Mouth

He hates HIPAA and OSHA, too.

He's featured on far right sites, talk radio, and the usual watering holes of the echo chamber, and I can't help noticing that's usually where your links eventually trace back to.
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Obama appointed a gentleman who worships the NICE system in Britain. That's all I need to know. NICE is essentially British for "death panel".
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Without actual data from NHS, Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurers in the US and UK, on rejection rates re: life-prolonging treatment, this conversation isn't going anywhere.

Honestly, I don't care enough to bother, but maybe someone else wants to?
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Kepler said:
You know as well as I that you can build a case for any impression from someone's quotes. It's part of framing the debate about someone, and there's no better practitioners than our fun loving friends from the right fringe (not that the left doesn't try, and I'm sure they'll eventually reach the same level of cynical manipulation that Ailes & Co. perfected).

This is just another case of a full-time political activist broadcasting talking points while using his title to hide his partisanship. Here it's a doctor, during the Iraq War it was brass -- it's all the same game.
Click to expand...

I agree with you that one can sometimes (not all the time) cherry pick someone's quotes to build a case to create a desired impression, but in this case I don't think much framing was required. Berwick's quotes speak for themselves.
 
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