Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

[Plante26]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

That isn't what I'm saying at all. I'm saying the more say the people (i.e. the Average Joe) have in how the government is run, or the more representative the government becomes to the people, the less respect people have for government. That doesn't mean democracy is a failure or, even if it were, that it still isn't superior to any other system. It says democracy may eat its own legitimacy -- a spectacular case of familiarity breeding contempt.

I'm not advocating stepping back from democracy; I'm advocating people start to suck it up and realize that the problems of our government come directly from the problems of 300 million people trying to find compromises, particularly when about 200 million of them feel they have a god-given right to demand no compromise.

This wouldn't be an issue if people didn't look to the government for the solutions to their problems. Once upon a time, people played the cards they were dealt and tried to make their way through life the best they could. Once the government started providing assistance via entitlement programs, a continuously growing percentage of citizens stopped worrying about the necessities (food, housing, retirement.....and soon-to-be lifelong health care) and started spending frivolously. Granted, this most likely contributed to a portion of the economic growth over the last half century, but we're now looking at liabilities which cannot be funded without potentially-crippling tax increases on the backs of the current shrinking taxpayer base.

Look at most any tinder box political issue and you'll find an issue in which people are looking for a solution to be provided by the government via intervention in private matters......usually by means of the distribution of taxpayer money. As you pointed out, the election of Jackson started the haves vs. have-nots voting pattern; this divide is only growing more and more apparent with each generation since the New Deal.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

That isn't what I'm saying at all. I'm saying the more say the people (i.e. the Average Joe) have in how the government is run, or the more representative the government becomes to the people, the less respect people have for government. That doesn't mean democracy is a failure or, even if it were, that it still isn't superior to any other system. It says democracy may eat its own legitimacy -- a spectacular case of familiarity breeding contempt.

I'm not advocating stepping back from democracy; I'm advocating people start to suck it up and realize that the problems of our government come directly from the problems of 300 million people trying to find compromises, particularly when about 200 million of them feel they have a god-given right to demand no compromise.

Too much infighting, too much influence from money/spec interests and maybe as you say too amenable to the whims of popularism. Frankly, it seems to have problems that a typical business might experience...too much internal politics, too much willingness to corrupt its own marketplace or cheat its customers. How do we 'help' business to act appropriately...we regulate them - consumer protection, environmental law, monopolistic or collusion practices. The govt is pretty much all powerful...and most don't think in terms of regulating the govt. Maybe its time to admit that adjusted direction could help Washington. Perhaps this is the best potential use of the constitutional amendment process we've had since women's sufferage?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

since the New Deal.

Things were so much better before that son of a beech took office.

 

[Plante26]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Things were so much better before that son of a beech took office.

Not saying that Social Security hasn't helped some people.....but at what cost? People have become less and less self-sufficient ever since, and with each passing year, you have fewer people paying into a system that is supporting more and more recipients. Why not expand tax credits/breaks for contributing to a retirement fund/IRA/401k/403b/etc/etc/etc? Basically, Social Security was an concession essentially stating that Americans are not responsible enough to plan for their own retirement.....a sentiment echoed by the passing of Medicare thirty years later.

The entitlement systems of Social Security and Medicare were flawed to begin with, not to mention a horrible ideological and political precedent. And we're only beginning to see the missteps now that the Boomer Generation is reaching retirement age.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Not saying that Social Security hasn't helped some people.....but at what cost? People have become less and less self-sufficient ever since, and with each passing year, you have fewer people paying into a system that is supporting more and more recipients. Why not expand tax credits/breaks for contributing to a retirement fund/IRA/401k/403b/etc/etc/etc? Basically, Social Security was an concession essentially stating that Americans are not responsible enough to plan for their own retirement.....a sentiment echoed by the passing of Medicare thirty years later.

The entitlement systems of Social Security and Medicare were flawed to begin with, not to mention a horrible ideological and political precedent. And we're only beginning to see the missteps now that the Boomer Generation is reaching retirement age.

Just one question.

Is Social Security funded by the rich? Are we taking from the rich to give retirement to the poor?

 

[Plante26]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Just one question.

Is Social Security funded by the rich? Are we taking from the rich to give retirement to the poor?

To a point. Obviously, there is a ceiling on the contributions from those making over $100k+.....not sure on the exact figure. Not that the whole rich/not rich argument matters in this instance.

In any case, your gotcha question doesn't take away from the fact that the entitlement systems in place are simply unsustainable in their current form and have done irreversible damage to the perception of responsible retirement planning for the majority of Americans over the last several generations.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

To a point. Obviously, there is a ceiling on the contributions from those making over $100k+.....not sure on the exact figure. Not that the whole rich/not rich argument matters in this instance.

In any case, your gotcha question doesn't take away from the fact that the entitlement systems in place are simply unsustainable in their current form and have done irreversible damage to the perception of responsible retirement planning for the majority of Americans over the last several generations.

To a point is the wrong answer. The answer is no.

As for responsible retirement planning I know of a number of people that lost half of their retirement because of the shorting of mortgage bonds. All of those people were investing with brokers who were advising them what to do. A mattress in that case would have given them a better return.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

To a point is the wrong answer. The answer is no.

As for responsible retirement planning I know of a number of people that lost half of their retirement because of the shorting of mortgage bonds. All of those people were investing with brokers who were advising them what to do. A mattress in that case would have given them a better return.

And if they had been investing for 30 years they still would be way ahead of the return they would see from SS.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

And if they had been investing for 30 years they still would be way ahead of the return they would see from SS.

Or they'd be completely broke. One or the other.

 

[Plante26]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

To a point is the wrong answer. The answer is no.

As for responsible retirement planning I know of a number of people that lost half of their retirement because of the shorting of mortgage bonds. All of those people were investing with brokers who were advising them what to do. A mattress in that case would have given them a better return.

And if they had been investing for 30 years they still would be way ahead of the return they would see from SS.

Or they'd be completely broke. One or the other.

A person doesn't have to invest in order to save for retirement. IRAs, CDs and other forms of bonds have guaranteed returns and are much, much less risky.

It's foolish to have your entire retirement fund in the market, especially for those people who are coming up on retirement age. Just another example of how the average American is really uneducated when it comes to personal finance.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Or if you're ahead of the game you set yourself up a target fund (or whatever they call them) where it automatically shifts your holdings from a stock heavy portfolio to one that is heavier in government bonds and other low-risk investments as your retirement year approaches.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Visualization of the Budget

Good way of showing how much of our budget goes towards entitlements, how much is paid for with debt and how little Obama's "cuts" will do.

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Visualization of the Budget

Good way of showing how much of our budget goes towards entitlements, how much is paid for with debt and how little Obama's "cuts" will do.

Never let the facts get in the way of a big number!!!!

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Visualization of the Budget

Good way of showing how much of our budget goes towards entitlements, how much is paid for with debt and how little Obama's "cuts" will do.

I will remember this when you are poo pooing articles like this for the next GOP President...

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

IRAs.....have guaranteed returns and are much, much less risky.

Just another example of how the average American is really uneducated when it comes to personal finance.

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

I will remember this when you are poo pooing articles like this for the next GOP President...

But imagine if a President said we will cut 100 billion from the budget. The wailing of the special interests would reach biblical proportions!

To the average Joe )) $100 million sounds like a lot of money. To OMB it is "rounding".

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Visualization of the Budget

Good way of showing how much of our budget goes towards entitlements, how much is paid for with debt and how little Obama's "cuts" will do.

It doesn't take a math genius (which evidently this guy is)...to figure out that if the great recession was brought to an end that spending due to stimulus, govt support to business, unemployment benefits and welfare would drop govt spending significantly. And simultaniously govt revenue due to increased biz and standard income tax could increase income maybe 10 or 20% (nearly half of citizens didn't pay taxes last year...and just off world-record breaking profits, neither did Exxon).

Remember this was not a recession Obama had any impact in causing whatsoever. Ending the recession is what matters...not the cutting of a penny...and based on policy, the administration knows this.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Also, for the record, I don't believe anything is guaranteed when it comes to IRAs. An IRA is just an account, how you choose to invest the money in that account is completely up to you. It can be as aggressive or cautious as you want. You can invest in **** near anything with an IRA.

 

[Plante26]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Also, for the record, I don't believe anything is guaranteed when it comes to IRAs. An IRA is just an account, how you choose to invest the money in that account is completely up to you. It can be as aggressive or cautious as you want. You can invest in **** near anything with an IRA.

It is when your IRA funds are deposited into CDs or an interest-bearing savings account at an FDIC-insured bank. Which is what I was implying, obviously.

 

[Plante26]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Remember this was not a recession Obama had any impact in causing whatsoever. Ending the recession is what matters...not the cutting of a penny...and based on policy, the administration knows this.

So Obama's votes--or lack thereof--didn't have any impact on this situation during his stint as a Senator?