Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

OK, we can play that game:

Clinton Administration: Made possible the legislation that led to your "evil" unregulated derivatives trading after pushing for and achieving loosened lending criteria for Fannie/Freddie. Also presided over the dot-com bubble that burst in 2000-01, which for some reason wasn't a big deal to the anti-Wall Street crowd. Ironically, dot-com IPOs were eerily similar to CDSs now in that stock was issued for start-ups that didn't have any assets backing the paper.....it was reckless speculation in it's basest form.

We're stretching the topic all over the place...now aren't we. The point was that at different times both the GOP and Dems have had pretty much the run of the govt. The Clinton administration doesn't seem to fit this scenario very well...in fact, it seems to me the GOP played a pretty substantial role in 1999 deregulation.

All I hear is that you think that Obama will cause future years to be bad for America. Its waay too early to be making that call.

The Obama Administration will end up leaving this country in a bigger economic mess than what he inherited...

Consumer confidence as a basic indicator of how citizens feel about the economy has risen to 59 from 39 when Obama arrived in January 2009. I'd happily bet my net worth that consumer confidence will be higher in 2012 or 2016 for that matter than when Obama took office...would you bet your's that it will be worse?

The original point that inclusive Dem governance in this administration has at worst resulted in partisan legislation...GOP governance led to economic crisis. Beyond that...you raise a handful of tangents that I have no interest in...

 

[Plante26]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

The Clinton administration doesn't seem to fit this scenario very well...in fact, it seems to me the GOP played a pretty substantial role in 1999 deregulation.

You're playing the blame game with Presidents here. Clinton signed the legislation.

Consumer confidence as a basic indicator of how citizens feel about the economy has risen to 59 from 39 when Obama arrived in January 2009. I'd happily bet my net worth that consumer confidence will be higher in 2012 or 2016 for that matter than when Obama took office...would you bet your's that it will be worse?

Yep, I would bet that consumer confidence will be much, much lower. It's only a matter of time before inflation kicks in and causes much pain in the form of higher interest rates, which will result in a devaluation of the dollar, which will lead to record high prices at the pump and energy costs.

The original point that inclusive Dem governance in this administration has at worst resulted in partisan legislation...GOP governance led to economic crisis. Beyond that...you raise a handful of tangents that I have no interest in...

You still have yet to point out a single Bush Administration action that caused anything. Of course, your argument would be that it was a lack thereof that caused it. In any case, the current trajectory of Obama Adminstration deficit spending will end badly. Write it down. I can guarantee it.

 

[Slap Shot]

Go bury your head in the sand, and when you're ready to admit that Fannie/Freddie were major players in this whole debacle, I'll be the first one to welcome you back to reality.

Why would I need do that since I've already on more than one occasion proven the private sector was far more at fault? Could you suck at the FOX News teet any harder?

 

[Plante26]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Why would I need do that since I've already on more than one occasion proven the private sector was far more at fault? Could you suck at the FOX News teet any harder?

You just don't get it. The Dems set the *ing table for Fannie/Freddie to run roughshod on the mortgage industry. They guarantee 80%+ of American mortgages. Get a clue.

Sorry, I guess I forgot that liberals believe that people aren't responsible for their own decisions. It's always the private sector's fault in your little dream world. It couldn't POSSIBLY be that people, by their own free will, borrowed what they couldn't afford to repay. It's the evil corporations fault. Got it.

Repeat the liberal mantra: Everyone is a victim.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

You just don't get it. The Dems set the *ing table for Fannie/Freddie to run roughshod on the mortgage industry. They guarantee 80%+ of American mortgages. Get a clue.

Sorry, I guess I forgot that liberals believe that people aren't responsible for their own decisions. It's always the private sector's fault in your little dream world. It couldn't POSSIBLY be that people, by their own free will, borrowed what they couldn't afford to repay. It's the evil corporations fault. Got it.

Repeat the liberal mantra: Everyone is a victim.

Imagine that you set up a GSE that will buy widgets, any widgets, even badly constructed widgets, on very favorable terms. 10 years later, you are shocked - shocked - to discover that those evil private companies have built so many shoddy widgets.

And you say it with a straight face.

Just imagine.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

You're playing the blame game with Presidents here.

Nope, I'm playing the conservatives have shown they shouldn't govern until they understand their role in the financial crisis and clean house.

Soo...the GOP's leadership in the 1999 deregulation legislation is to be overlooked.

Clinton signed the legislation.

Somehow Dems stonewalled the GOP which controlled the presidency, the house, the senate, treasury, fed, etc...and are to be blamed for the financial crisis.

....and Company. Read to your little heart's content.

Pretty good synopsis on the rabid defense of the status quo by the Dems. And we all know how that turned out.......

...and for some reason, its a forgone conclusion that somehow Obama will take the economy off a cliff...dropping below its crisis levels. There might be an out to lunch economist with that one...but very, very few.

Yep, I would bet that consumer confidence will be much, much lower.

OK, nuff said. I was really hoping the conservatives could at least play the role of the opposition. But if these thoughts are any indication, conservatives shouldn't be anywhere near the govt.

 

[Plante26]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Imagine that you set up a GSE that will buy widgets, any widgets, even badly constructed widgets, on very favorable terms. 10 years later, you are shocked - shocked - to discover that those evil private companies have built so many shoddy widgets.

And you say it with a straight face.

Just imagine.

Don't forget Congress passing a Fair Lending Law that states that banks must do everything in their power to approve every borrower with the implicit guarantee that the GSEs would buy the vast majority of said mortgages.

 

[ScottM]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Don't forget Congress passing a Fair Lending Law that states that banks must do everything in their power to approve every borrower with the implicit guarantee that the GSEs would buy the vast majority of said mortgages.

Cite, please. Because if that's your reading of the Community Reinvestment Act, you really need to get back to the drive-thru.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Y The Dems set the *ing table for Fannie/Freddie to run roughshod on the mortgage industry. They guarantee 80%+ of American mortgages.

truth. then add on the geniuses that came up with the whole bundling idea.
(Morgan Stanley? JP Morgan? can't remember). add greedy homeowners and speculators.

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

truth. then add on the geniuses that came up with the whole bundling idea.
(Morgan Stanley? JP Morgan? can't remember). add greedy homeowners and speculators.

Isn't that the whole problem - greed??

If ethics (morality) was practiced in the board rooms and trading floors, maybe we would not be in this mess. The 7 deadly sins still exist. Unfortunately, they are ignored.

 

[dropthatpuck]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Your idea of what is power and what is not is startling.

...much like your grasp on reality.

I'm not going to waste my time on this with you any longer. I've already provided plenty of real facts that debunks your b.s. two times. Your 90% figure is a lie and what continues to [sic] hemmorage doesn't derail what actually led to the collapse.

The "[sic]" goes after the word, Mr. Smarty Pants.

Why would I need do that since I've already on more than one occasion proven the private sector was far more at fault? Could you suck at the FOX News teet any harder?

You couldn't be more wrong....and, of course, the Fox reference is always a cute lefty standby when you lose a point - or points in your case.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

...much like your grasp on reality.

Yeah, you're right. Barney Frank is so bleeping powerful he trumps the President.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Yeah, you're right. Barney Frank is so bleeping powerful he trumps the President.

Well remember, when Clinton was in office and had a GOP Congress it was the Dems fault, when Dubya was in office and he had a GOP Congress it was the Dems fault and now it is the Dems fault too. The GOP has done nothing wrong since Iran-Contra.

I still love how the Dems, the most spineless party known to man, somehow had the minority in Congress and didn't have the presidency yet somehow they are to blame for all of this. I hate the Dems and I want to smack some reality into people who say stuff like that.

It is funny to watch the GOP talk out of both sides of their mouth...just proves they are as spineless as the Dems

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

we may be about to find out the downside of 'drill baby drill' ...

poor poor Cajuns.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Well remember, when Clinton was in office and had a GOP Congress it was the Dems fault, when Dubya was in office and he had a GOP Congress it was the Dems fault and now it is the Dems fault too. The GOP has done nothing wrong since Iran-Contra.

That wasn't wrong, either, it was "what everybody was thinking but only they had the guts to do" (intoned solemnly with the same voice as "Nixon only did what everybody else did, he just got caught").

Nothing is ever a conservative's fault. They are right, therefore any wrong must have been committed by somebody else or, as a final argument, by somebody who is "not really a conservative." It's a perfect circular argument.

 

[Bill]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Interesting article on GM Loan payback. It seems GM is just as good at deception as the government. Oh wait, GM is owned by the government.

http://reason.com/archives/2010/04/27/gms-phony-bailout-payback/

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Nothing is ever a conservative's fault. They are right, therefore any wrong must have been committed by somebody else or, as a final argument, by somebody who is "not really a conservative." It's a perfect circular argument.

Kinda makes you wonder why they're all unemployed and living off of their parents/spouse/welfare check. I've never seen a group of people so dependent on the very entity (the government) they pretend to hate.

Beyond this stupidfest going on out here though, the idea that a Dem or GOP Admin or Congress had something to do with the current situation is misguided. Let me knock down a few media driven myths...

1) Deregulation/FNMA/Community Reinvestment/etc caused this. While they didn't help, and didn't nip the issue in the bud, they didn't cause the problem. The problem was caused by the cyclical and age old scourge of finance, which is the idea that there is a way to eliminate risk. There isn't a way to eliminate risk, but it doesn't stop otherwise intelligent people from thinking that they can. This has a lot of bad consequences - no problem handing out loans to shaky customers, you'll just sell it after you write it. No problem buying these loans, as they'll be packaged with a bunch of others thus diversifying away the risk. No worries regarding homes losing value - they've been going up for 20 years. Don't even need to go into derivatives. Next generation another crisis will happen because of this same concept, although most likely not as severe. As long as people think they've come up with a way to game the system, you'll always see problems.

2) Greenspan kept rates too low. Idiotic on many levels. Greenspan was a vastly overreated presence over his two decades long reign, but stiffling growth in the name of fighting a war on inflation that had already been won long ago by his predecessor is why he deserves scorn. Access to cheap capital wasn't the problem. The idea that nobody could get burned was. People didn't take out too big mortgages because of too low interest rates (although again that didn't help); they took them out because the concept that you wouldn't be able to sell your house for a profit a couple of years hence never entered their mind.

3) Govt shouldn't be involved in promoting home ownership. Dumb on a zillion different levels. Govt shouldn't encourage risky loans (and it doesn't) and it should tighten the leash on unqualified lending (although govt intervention is the very thing that one half of the ideological spectrum fights against constantly). However, people as homeowners is a overall positive concept. They tend to care more about the neighborhood and community around them if they have an ownership stake, and a conventional mortgage (as in not an interest only one) will allow you to gradually build up your savings over time as you're required to put away equity on a monthly basis - money you'll have over time even if your house value stays the same.


So, does that mean do nothing? No. You need to regulate derivatives. You need to limit banks exposure and frankly their size so that they can't bring the whole system down via the domino effect. You need to have severe penalties for fraudulent lending. Capital ratios also have to go up. You can't necessarily trust everyone to have learned their lesson for this. Hence the need for corrective legislative action.

So, bottom line is stop whining and support your President and Congress during a very difficult time.

 

[SPIN CONTROL]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Well remember, when Clinton was in office and had a GOP Congress it was the Dems fault, when Dubya was in office and he had a GOP Congress it was the Dems fault and now it is the Dems fault too. The GOP has done nothing wrong since Iran-Contra.

What did they do wrong with Iran Contra?

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Repeat the liberal mantra: Everyone is a victim.

Uh, no one was a victim that voluntarily borrowed to people they should not have, nor were those that borrowed that should not have borrowed what they could not afford/maintain victims of anything but their own bad decision making. Point being both sides of that coin were to blame, not some made up liberal mandate that never existed.

You couldn't be more wrong....and, of course, the Fox reference is always a cute lefty standby when you lose a point - or points in your case.

I provided several links and facts that debunked the, "Fannie/Freddie caused the fallout" myth on more than one occasion, none of which were refuted. As for the FOX reference, if it walks like a duck (and equally screams, "liberals this, liberals that"...) you might want to check the kettle-resembling pot in your cupboard.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

What did they do wrong with Iran Contra?

Nothing. Giving Iran missiles was a great idea. Not quite as good as helping the Afghani freedom fighters, but still a good idea.