Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

[Bill]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

I figured somebody would go the other way, and say in 50 years we'll be a fundamentalist Islamic or Christian theocracy and homosexuality will be punishable by stoning.

Would never happen with Christianity. Aside from some wacko extremist churches, who really shouldn't be calling themselves Christians to begin with, true Christianity would not have that as a goal. Now, Islam, that's another story.

 

[ScottM]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Would never happen with Christianity. Aside from some wacko extremist churches, who really shouldn't be calling themselves Christians to begin with, true Christianity would not have that as a goal. Now, Islam, that's another story.

Awesome ... I'm going for the popcorn and beer. This could be good ...

 

[Foxton]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Awesome ... I'm going for the popcorn and beer. This could be good ...

It'd be funny if they didn't actually believe that.

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Would never happen with Christianity. Aside from some wacko extremist churches, who really shouldn't be calling themselves Christians to begin with, true Christianity would not have that as a goal. Now, Islam, that's another story.

I'm always amused with the notions that the Christians are only *THIS* close to implementing stoning if we only turned our backs.

Seriously guys, this moral equivalence between Christianity and Islam needs to stop. The central figure of Christianity is Christ... the central figure of Islam is Muhammed. Muhammed is held as a moral exemplar of the religion. This moral exemplar slaughtered vilages, subjugated Jews and Christians to lower class status, murdered those who weren't Jews or Christians and did not submit to Islam, and had sexual relations with a nine year old... his entire holy text is basically a guide to 7th century warfare. Lets state that again... Muhammed is seen as the most perfect human within the religion of Islam. Once you realize this then you realize the only "moderate" islam that exist are those people who are from culturally Muslim backgrounds who don't care about their faith too much. Those who want to deepen their faith have Muhammed to look to. Those Christians who want to deepen their faith have Christ.

That would really end the subject right around there.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Who's got my Venn diagram?

I have a feeling that Bill is dramatically overstating the overlap between set A (those who call themselves Christians) and set B (those who behavior is remotely consistent with Christianity)

Religion might be the only area of life where hypocrisy is more rampant than politics.

 

[Slap Shot]

I never realized that someone's sexual orientation was anyone else's business.

It most certainly is the business of those preventing gay unions.

 

[Tundra]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Here's the deal: Discrimination happens every day. When I went through the hiring process with my current company, there was discrimination leveled on every candidate--based on experience, education, appearance, presentation, character, charisma, etc, etc, etc. There are laws that say that discrimination on the basis of certain classifications is illegal, and I'd argue that these laws have done little-to-nothing, as most cases of discrimination are not overtly apparent.....with the exception of the implementation of affirmative action policies. Sexual orientation isn't a protected class, nor should it be, because it's no one else's business what a person does in their private lives.

The city assembly got this passed (7-6 or something) "sexual orientation" protection and it was vetoed by the mayor last year. The religious groups had people trucked from all over the city and the valley to protest it... and the homosexual rainbow coaliation countered it by having shouting matches, it was pretty funny.

Most discrimination isn't overt because it's illegal and you could be sued.
I think it got passed because of testimony from people of blatant discrimination and they had no recourse under the law.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Saudi Arabia still stones people. for adultery among other things.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

It'd be funny if they didn't actually believe that.

Yep...true Christians have never done anything wrong...because if they did something wrong they couldnt be true Christians! All those people that slaughtered Jews and Moors and Indians and Africans in the name of Christ dont count, because they obviously werent true Christians...

On to topics that matter...will someone explain to me how this new law in Arizona is American in any way? I thought "Driving While Block" was bad enough now in Arizona just looking Mexican could get you arrested if they suspect you are illegal and yoou cant prove otherwise. Civil rights for all...except the Brown People they dont count.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Yep...true Christians have never done anything wrong...because if they did something wrong they couldnt be true Christians! All those people that slaughtered Jews and Moors and Indians and Africans in the name of Christ dont count, because they obviously werent true Christians...

On to topics that matter...will someone explain to me how this new law in Arizona is American in any way? I thought "Driving While Block" was bad enough now in Arizona just looking Mexican could get you arrested if they suspect you are illegal and yoou cant prove otherwise. Civil rights for all...except the Brown People they dont count.

I think people are overreacting a bit to it to be honest. Police profile everybody, why should illegal immigration be anything different?

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

As for the true Christians argument, I know you were being sarcastic, but those who killed in the name of Christ had a very perverted view of the word of God. Those who kill in the name of Allah or Muhammad are following his word to the letter.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

As for the true Christians argument, I know you were being sarcastic, but those who killed in the name of Christ had a very perverted view of the word of God. Those who kill in the name of Allah or Muhammad are following his word to the letter.

Or they are upholding the word of Jesus that upheld the OT, before Paul came in and deus ex machina'd them into xtians with his biblical level retcon.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Apparently people in Arizona feel something should be done about all the folks in their state that are there illegally. Obama has said he'll do something about this law, I'll assume courts will be in session on Monday looking to overturn the law.At least Arizona got his attention on this issue. I wonder how long before amnesty is proposed?

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Apparently people in Arizona feel something should be done about all the folks in their state that are there illegally. Obama has said he'll do something about this law, I'll assume courts will be in session on Monday looking to overturn the law.At least Arizona got his attention on this issue. I wonder how long before amnesty is proposed?

not long... the problem is here that Arizona has a lot of real problems... but liberals don't want to see these problems because 1) they can't believe such problems can exist in America (kidnapping has become a major issue and people on the border have a fear of having their place ransacked), 2) their sympathy for the poor and downtrodden clears out any rational thoughts about consequences of nationalizing 12 million poor workers... of course the Democratic Party wants it for a new voting underclass and to have an object for sympathy.

If illegals are granted amnesty all the economic indicators are going to sideways in short order. They will take social services which will increase our debt and the unemployment figures will increase quickly. Further you'll probably see a border rush as Mexico tries to clear out its poor.

Amnesty will be the numerical and financial dagger to this country. We're a nation which DOES NOT NEED more poor unskilled labor.

 

[Slap Shot]

Those who kill in the name of Allah or Muhammad are following his word to the letter.

Wrong. The people using the Qur'an as an excuse to murder are twisting it's intent and are just as perverted as those that use the Bible for the same. The entire Qur'an, taken as a complete text urges forgiveness and restraint, and warns believers not to "transgress" or become "oppressors." As for verses that supposedly promote the killing of infidels, they are taken out of context. For example, one verse reads: "slay them wherever you catch them" (Qur'an 2:191). But in its entirity it reads completely differently:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193).

If islamofascists were following the actual word of the Qur'an there would be no way for non-Muslims to live in the Middle East without constantly being targeted. I was there for a year, was even permitted inside a mosque on one occasion, and was able to attend a Christian church. My religion was a non-issue to everyone I met outside the normal parameters of discourse between people getting to know each other.

I'm sure some will interpret these comments as saying I don't believe islamofascism is a real threat, but nothing could be further from the truth. Jon Stewart was right to call out the radical group in New York for threatening the South Park creators, while the Christians had their crusades there hasn't been one for hundreds of years, while there are some morons that kill abortion doctors there hasn't been a Christian inspired 9/11, etc., etc., etc. But make no mistake that the vast majority of Muslims do not indentify themselves with the terrorists nor the snipped versions of the Qur'an they use to promote violence.

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Wrong. The people using the Qur'an as an excuse to murder are twisting it's intent and are just as perverted as those that use the Bible for the same. The entire Qur'an, taken as a complete text urges forgiveness and restraint, and warns believers not to "transgress" or become "oppressors." As for verses that supposedly promote the killing of infidels, they are taken out of context. For example, one verse reads: "slay them wherever you catch them" (Qur'an 2:191). But in its entirity it reads completely differently:

If islamofascists were following the actual word of the Qur'an there would be no way for non-Muslims to live in the Middle East without constantly being targeted. I was there for a year, was even permitted inside a mosque on one occasion, and was able to attend a Christian church. My religion was a non-issue to everyone I met outside the normal parameters of discourse between people getting to know each other.

I'm sure some will interpret these comments as saying I don't believe islamofascism is a real threat, but nothing could be further from the truth. Jon Stewart was right to call out the radical group in New York for threatening the South Park creators, while the Christians had their crusades there hasn't been one for hundreds of years, while there are some morons that kill abortion doctors there hasn't been a Christian inspired 9/11, etc., etc., etc. But make no mistake that the vast majority of Muslims do not indentify themselves with the terrorists nor the snipped versions of the Qur'an they use to promote violence.

The problem is that you haven't learned the principle of "abrogation" within Islam... the essence is that Muhammed wrote contradictory stuff... whatever is mentioned later in the chronology is to be taken as the rule. Most of the vile stuff came later in the chronology so that ends up being the rule. Many peaceful rules drafted earlier are, in essence, made moot by later statements.

 

[Slap Shot]

The problem is that you haven't learned the principle of "abrogation" within Islam... .

You don't know anything about my knowledge of the subject - much of which was learned first hand. The fact is verses used to promote violence are taken out of context and as I said the vast, vast, vast majority of Muslims do not indentify themselves with the terrorists. Non-Muslims are able to live in large portions of the Middle East peacefully, no one I met there cared that I was a Christian and there are Christian churches one can attend. If the Qur'an was blatantly obvious about killing every non-Muslim none of that could be true.

It does not excuse the islamofascists, these statements are in no way meant to deny the real existence of threats from them, we are at war for a reason and must continue to fight that war, but I've learned far more about it than you should ever attempt to assume otherwise.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

re: Slapshot's Koran quote: convert or die. its the Islam way.

 

[Tundra]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

while there are some morons that kill abortion doctors there hasn't been a Christian inspired 9/11, etc., etc., etc. But make no mistake that the vast majority of Muslims do not indentify themselves with the terrorists nor the snipped versions of the Qur'an they use to promote violence.

I know he gave a warning before the bomb blew up but wouldn't the 1996 atlanta olympic bombing a terrorist act by a christian? it killed 2 people and wounded 111. And it was done by a zealot sending a message on abortion.

the purpose of the attack on July 27 was to confound, anger and embarrass the Washington government in the eyes of the world for its abominable sanctioning of abortion on demand.

The plan was to force the cancellation of the Games, or at least create a state of insecurity to empty the streets around the venues and thereby eat into the vast amounts of money invested.

On the Arizona immigration law, our city almost passed the same ordinance few years ago , it failed by several votes ...problaly because our illegal immigrant problem is minor and the city didn't want to spend millions on lawyers defending the law and the chief of police was against it too, lack of resources etc...

Our current system isn't working but I dont see how another amnesty program will solve this problem. so instead of focusing on deportation (arizona laws) we should focus on businesses that hire illegals for jobs that americans don't want.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Our current system isn't working but I dont see how another amnesty program will solve this problem. so instead of focusing on deportation (arizona laws) we should focus on businesses that hire illegals for jobs that americans don't want.

Isn't that what the Arizona law does? It punishes businesses who hire illegals.