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Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

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Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

I didn't know wallet size was a protected class. I know the right thinks so, but I failed to see that settled in any case law. Please provide examples.

I was trying to point out that people in similar circumstances are treated the same, hence the legality of a progressive income tax. It can be people of the same income level or of the same sex. No right is taken away from gay people in this case. They can still marry someone of the opposite sex and straight people can't marry someone of the same sex.
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

I didn't know wallet size was a protected class. I know the right thinks so, but I failed to see that settled in any case law. Please provide examples.

Here's the deal: Discrimination happens every day. When I went through the hiring process with my current company, there was discrimination leveled on every candidate--based on experience, education, appearance, presentation, character, charisma, etc, etc, etc. There are laws that say that discrimination on the basis of certain classifications is illegal, and I'd argue that these laws have done little-to-nothing, as most cases of discrimination are not overtly apparent.....with the exception of the implementation of affirmative action policies. Sexual orientation isn't a protected class, nor should it be, because it's no one else's business what a person does in their private lives.
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Independent of personal preference, is there anyone here who predicts that in 50 years gays will not have full marriage equality under US federal law?

That is not to say in 50 years there still won't be plenty of people who believe homosexuality is wrong; plenty of people believe all sorts of things are wrong.
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Independent of personal preference, is there anyone here who predicts that in 50 years gays will not have full marriage equality under US federal law?

That is not to say in 50 years there still won't be plenty of people who believe homosexuality is wrong; plenty of people believe all sorts of things are wrong.

I believe that more states will legalize it; I don't believe that it will be decided on a federal level.
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

I believe that more states will legalize it; I don't believe that it will be decided on a federal level.

Good point. When was miscegenation "decided" on a federal level? Perez v Sharp was in 1948, Loving v Virginia was decided in 1967. I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any federal law that says "blacks and whites can get married," only court decisions that say you can't stop them. Even then, Alabama didn't remove anti-miscegenation language from its state constitution until 2000 (and only 59% voted for the repeal then).

Source, FWIW
 
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Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Wow, I didn't realize that discrimination based on sexual orientation was legal. Thanks for the heads up.

Using this logic you could argue that everyone who wants one should be awarded a rocket science degree no matter who they perform on the tests since it's discrimination against stupid people. (a twist on a classic SNL sketch) :cool:

There has to be a line drawn somewhere or it will never end. This is the spot many people have chosen.
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Using this logic you could argue that everyone who wants one should be awarded a rocket science degree no matter who they perform on the tests since it's discrimination against stupid people. (a twist on a classic SNL sketch) :cool:

There has to be a line drawn somewhere or it will never end. This is the spot many people have chosen.

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelarious.

We had a civil war over a line that was drawn, remember? There also was another line drawn for interracial marriage, how'd that turn out?

Tell you what. When we have a civil war over this line and the country splits in half I'll buy your argument.
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelarious.

We had a civil war over a line that was drawn, remember? There also was another line drawn for interracial marriage, how'd that turn out?

Tell you what. When we have a civil war over this line and the country splits in half I'll buy your argument.

Thanks, I thought it was clever. Although I sense a bit of sarcasm... :p

It almost sounds like you're hoping for a civil war for this to be solved, but that doesn't seem quite right. Yes I am aware how that whole thing turned out, but it's just a little different here. I know you don't think so, but many do.

For the record, my opinion is the state should not be involved in marriages at all. Everything should be a civil union and anyone who wants can get a civil union since I believe marriage is a religious ceremony. So if there's a church out there who will marry same sex couples, have at it. I didn't get married for tax benefits or hospital visitation or anything like that, but why are those issues central to this argument?
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Good point. When was miscegenation "decided" on a federal level? Perez v Sharp was in 1948, Loving v Virginia was decided in 1967. I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any federal law that says "blacks and whites can get married," only court decisions that say you can't stop them. Even then, Alabama didn't remove anti-miscegenation language from its state constitution until 2000 (and only 59% voted for the repeal then).

Source, FWIW

Here's somewhat of a conundrum that crossed my mind: Obviously, most homosexuals are "born that way", but some people choose to be homosexual (or transgendered, or bisexual, etc, etc, etc). Under current affirmative action/anti-discrimination laws, if a person were to undergo a sex change or "race change"(think something along the lines of Michael Jackson), would they then be able to qualify as a minority when applying for government contracts, applying for student aid/college admission, etc, etc, etc? And, if a person qualifies as a member of a class protected by anti-discrimination laws, how does one determine if a person falls into the sexual orientation classification if such a class were added to such laws? With the archaic interwoven policies of anti-discrimination and affirmative action still being enforced, you would have a very, very gray area with self-identification being the basis of claims for protection under those laws. I know for a fact that a Scandinavian like myself can't self-identify as an African-American; what would stop me from self-identifying as a homosexual? An investigation into my private life? Being subject to a psychological evaluation? Performing sexual acts in front of a confirmation committee? Or is being a member of a protected class considered to be "bad", so a person like me wouldn't POSSIBLY self-identify in order to gain an advantage? Which leads me to my point......

I would argue that laws such as these devalue members of "protected classes" by essentially validating the fact that they need to be given an advantage (via affirmative action) or need to be protected (via anti-discrimination laws). To twist the argument around, what makes it OK to discriminate based on education? Or experience? Or the ability to lift at least 50 lbs? What makes it OK for a tribal government to give preference to tribal members? Or for felons to be turned away for a job after a background investigation?

Once it has been verified that a person needs an advantage or protection based on what they are, they--by and large--come to expect that advantage rather than making their way through life based on who they are.

Now, before someone jumps in and gives me a long-winded history lesson on how racism was rampant and still exists today, the vast majority of Americans today are able to look past race--look at our President for prime example #1. What they are not able to look past is the way people dress, talk, act, etc, etc, etc. With all of the same qualifications--or lack thereof ;)--would Obama have been elected if he epitomized the hip-hop culture? Would Bill Clinton have been elected if he was the walking-talking version of the Ozarks? Would Bill Richardson have been governor of New Mexico speaking broken English? No, no and no. The bottom line is that discrimination occurs every day, on many different levels, and is perpetrated by people of all political persuasions.
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

For the record, my opinion is the state should not be involved in marriages at all. Everything should be a civil union and anyone who wants can get a civil union since I believe marriage is a religious ceremony. So if there's a church out there who will marry same sex couples, have at it. I didn't get married for tax benefits or hospital visitation or anything like that, but why are those issues central to this argument?

I agree with the fact that everything should be a civil union and anyone that wants to be married gets a secondary thing in a church, Feds look at civil union as a marriage for tax purposes, done.
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Independent of personal preference, is there anyone here who predicts that in 50 years gays will not have full marriage equality under US federal law?
There won't be a good old USA in 50 years if Washington doesn't get spending under control.
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

I agree with the fact that everything should be a civil union and anyone that wants to be married gets a secondary thing in a church, Feds look at civil union as a marriage for tax purposes, done.

Slippery slope. Then you're discriminating against single people.
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

There won't be a good old USA in 50 years if Washington doesn't get spending under control.

I figured somebody would go the other way, and say in 50 years we'll be a fundamentalist Islamic or Christian theocracy and homosexuality will be punishable by stoning. :p
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

No. You really don't understand what discrimination means, do you?

Discrimination: Treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit.

I believe giving tax breaks only to non-single people qualifies under the definition. You probably just have a much more liberal definition. :)
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

I figured somebody would go the other way, and say in 50 years we'll be a fundamentalist Islamic or Christian theocracy and homosexuality will be punishable by stoning. :p

I thought we already had Alabama. :confused: ;)
 
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