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Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

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Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Kepler said:
Although.
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Good. The man deserves praise when he manages to get it right, especially since it's rare.

I'd be all about a VAT (although I'd prefer the language of the FairTax) as long as they did away with income taxes simultaneously. Not holding my breath.
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

joecct said:
Wasn't Geither a big wig with Goldman-Sachs? In other words, I see a forked tongue here.
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Geithner was never with Goldman. IIRC, he's spent very little, if any time, in private industry. However, as President of the New York Fed, he probably wielded as much power as any Wall Street CEO, if not more.
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Red Cloud said:
I'd be all about a VAT (although I'd prefer the language of the FairTax) as long as they did away with income taxes simultaneously. Not holding my breath.
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Yeah, cause nothing says government restraint like a tax which is intentionally hidden as much as possible from its ultimate payor, in this case, the consumer.

If we really must go down this road, then just make it a national sales tax, since at least then the consumer sees it and it "hurts" more at the register.

That said, VAT's and sales taxes both suck donkey balls.
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

unofan said:
Yeah, cause nothing says government restraint like a tax which is intentionally hidden as much as possible from its ultimate payor, in this case, the consumer.

If we really must go down this road, then just make it a national sales tax, since at least then the consumer sees it and it "hurts" more at the register.
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Which, of course, is why I said I prefer the FairTax language.
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Red Cloud said:
Which, of course, is why I said I prefer the FairTax language.
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But a FairTax would result in EVERYONE caring about when the government hikes taxes! That is unacceptable to the tax-and-spenders! Can you imagine the votes that would be lost?
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

joecct said:
VAT or Fair Tax, does anyone think the Congress will abolish the income tax or any other federal tax????
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No. Even "temporary" taxes become permanent once the public/non-profit sectors become dependent on them. Funny how it's OK for private sector businesses/jobs to go t*ts up, but when a government program or non-profit is failing we're facing an epic atrocity that cannot be allowed and must be averted via--surprise, surprise--more taxpayer funding.
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Plante26 said:
No. Even "temporary" taxes become permanent once the public/non-profit sectors become dependent on them.
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Add private sector to that list. The defense industry is funded by federal taxes. And Lockheed-Martin has a lot more power to influence policy than any non-profit.
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

joecct said:
VAT or Fair Tax, does anyone think the Congress will abolish the income tax or any other federal tax????
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No, of course not. Which is why we'll never have the FairTax, because both parties are far too dependent on Americans' ignorance as to how much they pay in taxes. They actually expect us to believe that corporations pay taxes - can you believe that?
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

joecct said:
VAT or Fair Tax, does anyone think the Congress will abolish the income tax or any other federal tax????
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Doubt it. I think there would be more to gain to completely overhaul the tax code. Some arcane provisions date to the late 1800s. As for a VAT, I think the VAT more closely aligns itself with the consumption focus of the US economy than the income tax. 'Course once that spigot opens, it would be hard to wean Congress away from that drug. I would like to see them reduce income taxes if a VAT or national sales tax is imposed. Fat chance ... :rolleyes:
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Kepler said:
Add private sector to that list. The defense industry is funded by federal taxes. And Lockheed-Martin has a lot more power to influence policy than any non-profit.
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Partially. Though there is a big difference between contract bids and grant/budget requests......mostly with regards to the approval process.

That said, the military leaves much to be desired with regards to reducing waste.
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Plante26 said:
Though there is a big difference between contract bids and grant/budget requests......mostly with regards to the approval process.
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Theoretically you are right, but I think that difference is mostly honored in the breach.

I wasn't arguing about waste (though that is a different and also interesting discussion), but against the idea that taxes feed only the public sector. The public and private sectors are intimately interwoven and always have been. Everybody is sleeping with everybody else.
 
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Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

joecct said:
VAT or Fair Tax, does anyone think the Congress will abolish the income tax or any other federal tax????
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Probably not, at least as far as the income tax goes. Two primary reasons. They don't want to give up the control that manipulation of the income tax code allows them. And second, they're not intelligent enough to realize how much something like the Fair Tax would benefit the country. They are more interested in levying additional taxes on the population to support out of control spending.
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

ScottM said:
Doubt it. I think there would be more to gain to completely overhaul the tax code. Some arcane provisions date to the late 1800s. As for a VAT, I think the VAT more closely aligns itself with the consumption focus of the US economy than the income tax. 'Course once that spigot opens, it would be hard to wean Congress away from that drug. I would like to see them reduce income taxes if a VAT or national sales tax is imposed. Fat chance ... :rolleyes:
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not when they still have to fund their ever expansive lists of ideals which they seem to believe can make come true.
 
Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Bill said:
Probably not, at least as far as the income tax goes. Two primary reasons. They don't want to give up the control that manipulation of the income tax code allows them. And second, they're not intelligent enough to realize how much something like the Fair Tax would benefit the country. They are more interested in levying additional taxes on the population to support out of control spending.
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Exactly right - and the FairTax won't work without dumping the income tax as well. Far too many special interests out there ponying up money to keep the status quo, even though the status quo sucks and the FairTax would in all likelihood kick the economy into hyperdrive - not to mention draw a ridiculous amount of international investment, industry, and jobs.
 
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