Obama V: For Vendetta

[rufus]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

So a single Republican congressman proposes this pet care tax credit and that makes him representative of all Republicans? Would the Democrats be happy if Nancy Pelosi is considered a model representative for all Democrats?

You guys pretty much seem to think so.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

THE POPE AND MS.PELOSI

The Pope and Nancy Pelosi are on the same stage in front of a huge crowd.
To make it a little more interesting, Pelosi says to the Pope, "Did You know
that with just one little wave of my hand I can make every Democrat in the
crowd go wild?"

He doubts it, so she shows him.. Sure enough, the wave elicits rapture and
cheering from every Democrat in the crowd. Gradually, the cheering
subsides.


The Pope, not wanting to be out done by such a level of arrogance,
considers what he could do. "That was impressive, the Pope says, "But did you know
that with just one little wave of MY hand I can make EVERY person in the
crowd go crazy with joy? This joy will not be a momentary display like that
of your subjects, but will go deep into their hearts, and they will forever
speak of this day and rejoice."

Pelosi seriously doubts this, and says so. "One little wave of your hand
and all people will rejoice forever? Show me."


So the Pope slapped her.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

So, Speaker Pelosi, I just wanted to -- you gonna drink your wine? Are you blind? Do those eyes not work? There you -- I want you to drink it now. Drink it. Drink it. Drink it.

I really just wanted to thank you for having me over here to wine country. You know, to be invited, I thought I had to be a major Democratic donor or a longtime friend of yours, which I'm not.

By the way, I put poison in your -- no, I -- I look forward to all the policy discussions that we're supposed to have -- you know, on health care, energy reform, and the economy. -- Glenn Beck

I'm surprised they haven't gotten to the rape jokes, yet. So witty.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

I'm surprised they haven't gotten to the rape jokes, yet. So witty.

Wow, get a grip

 

[ScottM]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Interesting critique of the O-man so far by The Economist.

On the campaign trail Mr Obama showed an impressive ability to change gears. He needs to do so again this summer.

He has been curiously ill-served by a press short of useful criticism, with liberal America prepared only to debate what sort of water he walks on best, while conservative radio hosts argue over when exactly he became a communist.

At times Mr Obama’s role has seemed limited to deploying his teleprompter-driven oratory to sell whatever Congress proposes to the public, even before it is clear what exactly those proposals amount to.

What should Mr Obama do? He must come down from his cloud and start leading. The House Democrats could be usefully reminded that their present 78-seat margin owes everything to the president’s coat-tails; they are endangering his popularity.

But then the final version of that bill will have to be reconciled with the much-worse House version. If the result is another lazy deficit-boosting, hard-decision-avoiding scheme (like George Bush’s rotten Medicare bill), what president would want to be remembered for that? Mr Obama remains an inspiring figure. But he needs to get his hands dirty this summer if he is to rescue a presidency that has started to slip.

http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=14121752&CFID=73021281&CFTOKEN=72010649

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Wow, get a grip

I'm not the one making poisoning jokes, hanging people in effigy, yelling "kill him" at rallies.

But that's just cute fun, right?

These people are loons.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

He indicated he was upset?

he's always upset about some knuckle dragger or something a knuckle dragger does... this is no doubt cheney's problem, somehow - someway.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

You certainly have. My name is Rachel, dammit.

"From now on, call me 'Loretta.'"

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

These people are loons.

Duh, like its anything new and only been around for 8 months

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

I'm not the one making poisoning jokes, hanging people in effigy, yelling "kill him" at rallies.

But that's just cute fun, right?

These people are loons.

Remember when people got beat up just so a politician couldn't be brought off his message as it worked through the mass media channels? That was so, well, Friday.

People are getting beat up just so the meme of "we spoke to our constituents and they were in favor" doesn't get disrupted. Is that America? Where the right for a politician's agenda is protected at all costs? Where the right of the people to petition their gov't gets dismissed?

I think if you look at your own side there's a fair amount of goose-stepping.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Remember when people got beat up just so a politician couldn't be brought off his message as it worked through the mass media channels? That was so, well, Friday.

Actually, I don't. What I've seen -- which has been in increments of about 3 seconds while I reach for the remote in disgust -- has been either irrational citizens or tactically deliberate plants screaming at the top of their lungs so that their fellow citizens can't either speak or hear actual information. In fact, they're preventing other citizens from asking intelligent and probing questions that might actually criticize the administration's policies.

And while that's America, it certainly is not small-d democratic (or small-r republican). The rights being protected are the rights of people to interrogate officials, rather than just make loud noises to gratify their sense of entitlement and victimization.

The Screamers aren't doing anybody any good, but they're probably hurting their own side more. That is assuming their side is anything other than inchoate, impotent rage.

It isn't a serious problem because they aren't throwing bombs, so if they want to blow their chance to influence the moderate center, so be it. I guess we'll see in 2010 whether this tactic, aided and encouraged by the national GOP, just marginalizes a regional extremist party further. Either way, the "leaders" will continue to get rich on their radio contracts and book tours, so they'll continue to push that feed bar.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Remember when people got beat up just so a politician couldn't be brought off his message as it worked through the mass media channels? That was so, well, Friday.

People are getting beat up just so the meme of "we spoke to our constituents and they were in favor" doesn't get disrupted. Is that America? Where the right for a politician's agenda is protected at all costs? Where the right of the people to petition their gov't gets dismissed?

I think if you look at your own side there's a fair amount of goose-stepping.

Earth to Patman.

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Actually, I don't. What I've seen -- which has been in increments of about 3 seconds while I reach for the remote in disgust -- has been either irrational citizens or tactically deliberate plants screaming at the top of their lungs so that their fellow citizens can't either speak or hear actual information. In fact, they're preventing other citizens from asking intelligent and probing questions that might actually criticize the administration's policies.

Yes, it's been a horribly mismanaged debate from the beginning. There isn't even a cohesive plan to push toward passage yet, and the lobbying for and against bits and pieces of it is so intense that all good sense is lost in the arguing. There's no leadership guiding the debate. There's no trust that anything anyone says is in good faith. So the screamers scream about vague rumors being filtered through the tee vee idiots, and Obama, Pelosi and Reid (the non-leaders who should be leading the debate) make it much worse by calling them names like 2nd graders, advising supporters to "hit them twice as hard", sending out gangs of thugs to bloody them up, etc. etc. It's a complete meltdown of boneheads all around. IMO, what has led to this mess is past dishonesty with the people who "don't know what's good for 'em". The chance for trust has been lost.

 

[French Rage]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Where are these goons bloodying people up? I've seen stories involving alot of inane yelling by supporters on both sides, but I haven't seen anything about people being bloodied up.

 

[Jon]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Yes, it's been a horribly mismanaged debate from the beginning. There isn't even a cohesive plan to push toward passage yet, and the lobbying for and against bits and pieces of it is so intense that all good sense is lost in the arguing. There's no leadership guiding the debate. There's no trust that anything anyone says is in good faith. So the screamers scream about vague rumors being filtered through the tee vee idiots, and Obama, Pelosi and Reid (the non-leaders who should be leading the debate) make it much worse by calling them names like 2nd graders, advising supporters to "hit them twice as hard", sending out gangs of thugs to bloody them up, etc. etc. It's a complete meltdown of boneheads all around. IMO, what has led to this mess is past dishonesty with the people who "don't know what's good for 'em". The chance for trust has been lost.

Yep, pretty much.

Apparently, there have been a ton of lies on both sides. One of the worst actually came from Obama. See, I'm not that big of an apologist...

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Where are these goons bloodying people up? I've seen stories involving alot of inane yelling by supporters on both sides, but I haven't seen anything about people being bloodied up.

I posted a link to some video in the healthcare thread.

 

[ScottM]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Yes, it's been a horribly mismanaged debate from the beginning. There isn't even a cohesive plan to push toward passage yet, and the lobbying for and against bits and pieces of it is so intense that all good sense is lost in the arguing. There's no leadership guiding the debate.

I blame Obama in large part for trying to stay above the fray, instead of running the plays. He promised to "reform" healthcare, and he outsourced the details and the grand plan to those idiots in Congress. Considering all of the wonks and academics at 1600 Penn, they should have been able to, and may be able to, develop an efficient, cost-effective plan of some sort to present to the American people.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

I blame Obama in large part for trying to stay above the fray, instead of running the plays.

At the end of the day, he's the president of all of us -- he's not supposed to be a party operative. Probably the worst thing about Dubya is that he was strictly GOP -- if you weren't his direct supporter, then ef you. Most other presidents have respected the office, and I hope Obama does, too.

That doesn't mean he can't use the bully pulpit to drive forward policies -- he's not just hired to keep the wheels turning, but also to steer. However, he needs to respect dissenting citizens and explain those policies in order to persuade.

Nobody rational thinks Fox or Rush is arguing in good faith, but that doesn't mean a large segment of their audience isn't capable of independent thought. There was a difference between the Kremlin and the Russian people, and even when those people were only getting their information from Pravda they still deserved some compassion.

 

[ScottM]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

At the end of the day, he's the president of all of us -- he's not supposed to be a party operative.

I agree, but I voted for him, not Pelosi or Reid. He has been remarkably disengaged in this debate, and peeking his head out to give a some bite or tightly controlled townhall meeting doesn't count. Hell, his press conference on health care degenerated into the Gates fiasco. He should be quarterbacking the healthcare debate, not cheerleading or offering pearls of wisdom from the press box. Maybe he should grab Rahm, head to the Hill and start cracking heads if he's serious about getting a deal by year-end.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Maybe he should grab Rahm, head to the Hill and start cracking heads if he's serious about getting a deal by year-end.

Traditionally, the president has Enforcers who do the dirty work that gets policy enacted: keep your side's crazies in line, slice the other side up by cutting selective deals. Number one, that usually requires skills different from the president's bright shiny smile and baby-kissing insincerity -- LBJ and Clinton were good at it, but the rest usually have different strengths. Number two, that allows the president to descend from the heavens on signing day and stay unsullied by Norris Division politics. Number three, if something goes wrong then one of the Enforcers takes the fall and the president's capital is mostly unspent.

Rahm is certainly an Enforcer for Obama, and I'm sure he's had a few conversations with Blue Dogs pursuant to their prospects for DCCC funds for 2010. Pelosi ought to be -- it's not like she has anywhere else she needs to go, and she can crack the whip over the Dem caucus. Reid is useless, but the Senate is a different story -- that's more about massaging massive egos than The Chicago Way. Hillary would have been a terrifying Enforcer -- if you could trust her (hint: you can't).