Obama V: For Vendetta

[gregg729]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Big doubt.

Obama will not blunder into an unecessary war spending trillions outside of the budget, cause huge strife as he strives to enforce a moral code on society and oversee a generational loss in American citizen assets. Obama may spend (and interdict business) at rates just beyond W...but at least in Obama's case, he faced an economic free fall. And by all indications, this has been successfully stopped.

Obama will win a reelection unless he runs into a big PR debacle like healthcare...and will be seen among the top quartile of presidents if he can subsequently take great strides against the deficit.

Don't look at Obama directly, his glow causes blindness.

Rates just beyond Bush? You're delusional buddy. Obama's the most irresponsible and reckless spender in the history of mankind. He is on pace to far outspend Bush by the midterm elections - you can deny this, but then you can also deny the earth is round - certain denials just don't matter.

Obama promise unemployment would peak at 8% yet true unemployment is well beyond 10%. Seriously, I'd almost rather have ScoobyDoo calling shots for our economy after seeing how incompetant this clown is.

I wanted to say more but I gotta run.......

 

[Bill]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Don't look at Obama directly, his glow causes blindness.

Rates just beyond Bush? You're delusional buddy. Obama's the most irresponsible and reckless spender in the history of mankind. He is on pace to far outspend Bush by the midterm elections - you can deny this, but then you can also deny the earth is round - certain denials just don't matter.

Obama promise unemployment would peak at 8% yet true unemployment is well beyond 10%. Seriously, I'd almost rather have ScoobyDoo calling shots for our economy after seeing how incompetant this clown is.

I wanted to say more but I gotta run.......

Looks like even some in the Fed are saying the actual unemployment rate is closer to 16%:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.ph...4e5884678e236d7fb.361&show_article=1&catnum=3

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Looks like even some in the Fed are saying the actual unemployment rate is closer to 16%:

This is a good measure, but you do recognize that you are citing the difference between the unemployment metrics U3 and U6, and that the extra 7 points were also true under Bush and every other president, right? It isn't as if unemployment suddenly shot up the extra points (although I expect the U6-U3 spread grows in a recession).

I much prefer U6 (the higher number, now about 16%) as the real indicator of what economists during polite cocktail parties call "labor underutilization." IINM, even it doesn't quite capture the pain of underemployment -- for that you'd need the percentage of working-age able-bodied adults who are in households making under $x. That would further expose the "WalMart economy" of the last 20 years where real wages stagnated even as the top decile skyrocketed.

 

[Bill]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

This is a good measure, but you do recognize that you are citing the difference between the unemployment metrics U3 and U6, and that the extra 7 points were also true under Bush and every other president, right? It isn't as if unemployment suddenly shot up the extra points (although I expect the U6-U3 spread grows in a recession).

I much prefer U6 (the higher number, now about 16%) as the real indicator of what economists during polite cocktail parties call "labor underutilization." IINM, even it doesn't quite capture the pain of underemployment -- for that you'd need the percentage of working-age able-bodied adults who are in households making under $x. That would further expose the "WalMart economy" of the last 20 years where real wages stagnated even as the top decile skyrocketed.

Yes I'm aware of that. Wouldn't it be nice if the government (both parties) actually told the truth instead of always trying to put a positive spin on things by cooking the books. I've seen current unemployment figures as high as 20%+ although I'm not sure of the specifics as to how they calculated that high of a figure.

Similarly, the government doesn't include the cost of groceries and gas in their inflation calculations and that allows them to make inflation look lower than it is. That too has been going on for years.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Yes I'm aware of that. Wouldn't it be nice if the government (both parties) actually told the truth instead of always trying to put a positive spin on things by cooking the books. I've seen current unemployment figures as high as 20%+ although I'm not sure of the specifics as to how they calculated that high of a figure.

Similarly, the government doesn't include the cost of groceries and gas in their inflation calculations and that allows them to make inflation look lower than it is. That too has been going on for years.

They have to do this though or they risk upsetting those people that have to always believed we are the greatest at everything. If you lose them then confidence will really drop and things will begin to circle the drain. All these people need is a little spin and they still feel good about everything.

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

in Obama's case, he faced an economic free fall. And by all indications, this has been successfully stopped.

D'oh!
The trouble with the talk of recovery is that recent market gains feel goood, but are hiding the lack of any recovery in national production or financial stability. All that's been done is shuffle problems around between different liable parties (mostly from companies to taxpayers). It's (mostly) not Obama's fault, but the fact is we're not really any better off than we were last year economically. Just deeper in debt. And if so, we'll sooner or later see a repeat of last fall's panic attack.

 

[gregg729]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Looks like even some in the Fed are saying the actual unemployment rate is closer to 16%:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.ph...4e5884678e236d7fb.361&show_article=1&catnum=3

I'm fully aware of that. Whatever the actual number, it's completely safe to say that unemployment is 10+% without fear from being accused of spin by any rational person.

And 10+% real unemployment compared to Obama's promise of an 8% peak is a >25% error. That's plenty enough to show that Obama and the cronies that he has choosen to advise him don't have the right plan in place to fix the economy.

And once again, it also proves that Obama and his cronies just plain suck at math.

I think maybe we should start a thread entirely devoted to showing how badly Obama has screwed up at just about every figure he has fed the American people. I think an Administration that's this inept at math deserves its own thread, no?

 

[Jon]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

I think maybe we should start a thread entirely devoted to showing how badly Obama has screwed up at just about every figure he has fed the American people. I think an Administration that's this inept at math deserves its own thread, no?

Are you that much of masochist?

 

[dropthatpuck]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Are you that much of masochist?

Nothing masochistic about it. I'd refer to it as "Six Flags - USCHO". Fun times.

 

[gregg729]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under
the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist
program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without
knowing how it happened." -- Norman Thomas

A very shrewd prediction from this guy. Does anyone know who Norman Thomas is?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Yes I'm aware of that. Wouldn't it be nice if the government (both parties) actually told the truth instead of always trying to put a positive spin on things by cooking the books.

Amen, brother. See also: using improbably optimistic economic predictions as the basis of deficit projections, hiding costs off the books of the official budget, etc.

That's what happens when any organization is its own auditor. It's one of the best arguments against bipartisanship, since that tends to erode the watchdog role of the opposition by making them complicit.

 

[gregg729]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Are you that much of masochist?

Buddy, I find no pleasure whatsoever in pointing out how my President is the most reckless spender in the history of mankind and that he is either incompetant at fixing the economy or, just as likely, not even trying. I weep.

 

[Jon]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Nothing masochistic about it. I'd refer to it as "Six Flags - USCHO". Fun times.

Have the thread will be arguing with Rover. The other half will be people making fun of you.
It will be a more intelligent version of the Indystar forums.

It would be like a fan of the 10th place team in Hockey East starting a Bu Sucks thread.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

A very shrewd prediction from this guy.

Nearly as shrewd as:

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

The result of the absolute triumph by either left or right would be tyranny. Protecting our freedoms consists in making the crazies of each fringe nullify each other.

 

[Bill]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under
the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist
program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without
knowing how it happened." -- Norman Thomas

A very shrewd prediction from this guy. Does anyone know who Norman Thomas is?

He was an American Socialist/Pacifist.

 

[Bill]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Nearly as shrewd as:

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

I'd have to disagree with Lewis on that one. Fascism is more closely related to Socialism than to Capitalism, and I have a hard time envisioning the increasingly Socialistic Democrats carrying a cross. If I remember correctly, Lewis was often critical of Capitalism in his writing. If Fascism were to come to America, I believe it would come via Socialism being an intermediate step.

 

[gregg729]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Nearly as shrewd as:

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

The result of the absolute triumph by either left or right would be tyranny. Protecting our freedoms consists in making the crazies of each fringe nullify each other.

Not even. Equally as shrewd, you betcha.

And now that the crazies on the left control the White House and Congress, it's up to the American people and the American people alone to stop tyranny from becoming reality. The jury's still out on the outcome...

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

I'd have to disagree with Lewis on that one. Fascism is more closely related to Socialism than to Capitalism, and I have a hard time envisioning the increasingly Socialistic Democrats carrying a cross. If I remember correctly, Lewis was often critical of Capitalism in his writing. If Fascism were to come to America, I believe it would come via Socialism being an intermediate step.

Fascism is considered a disease of the right, as Communism is a disease of the left. In the US the worst aspects of Fascism (militarism, nationalism, xenophobia, religious extremism) have been historically associated with the right; during the height of European fascism, it considered Communism to be its diametric opposite.

The Progressive/Populist axis tends to cut perpendicularly across the left/right spectrum, so partisans on either side have a lot of room to try to distance themselves from the negative consequences of their ideologies.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Not even. Equally as shrewd, you betcha.

And now that the crazies on the left control the White House and Congress, it's up to the American people and the American people alone to stop tyranny from becoming reality. The jury's still out on the outcome...

If you think this government is far left, your spectrum must run from Barry Goldwater to the John Birch Society.

Seriously, on the spectrum of the world's democratic governments, Obama isn't even center-left. On the US spectrum, he'd be to the right of Nixon and Eisenhower among others.

Political fashions, like hemlines, change. We're emerging from a time when "the left was in the center and the right was in the lunatic asylum." In 30 years it will, of course, be exactly the opposite. That's how this country rolls.

Anyway, like I said below, I'm against bipartisanship. Obama should push through his policies; the GOP should fight like the dickens to stop him. That's the only way we voters get a real choice. I will be happy to cancel your national vote in 2012.

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Fascism is considered a disease of the right, as Communism is a disease of the left. In the US the worst aspects of Fascism (militarism, nationalism, xenophobia, religious extremism) have been historically associated with the right; during the height of European fascism, it considered Communism to be its diametric opposite.

The Progressive/Populist axis tends to cut perpendicularly across the left/right spectrum, so partisans on either side have a lot of room to try to distance themselves from the negative consequences of their ideologies.

Posts like this are why we keep you here.
I'm tired of the labels that have lost their meaning being used to attack and defend federal policy making. I'm to the point where the spectrums of ideology don't matter; the government can simply
a) defend our personal freedom or
b) take it away.
We've had way to much of b the last few (hundred) years.