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Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

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Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

rufus said:
If he was the idelaogue you claim he is, he would have walked into Congress, said 'this is what I want' and then strongarmed them and browbeat them into giving it to him.

You know, like Dick Cheney did.
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Dick Cheney has balls. Obama doesn't. It is as simple as that.

:cool:
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

I wish they would stop spending our money AND keep their feet off the antiques! :)
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

MattS said:
Are you honestly trying to tell us that people stayed home and did not vote to take away the super majority?
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No, they stayed home and didn't vote because they were frustrated and disillusioned with what's been done so far with that supermajority.

Saw a stat a couple days ago, in 2008, almost 50% of under 30 voters turned out for the election. In the Mass. special election, that number was 15%.

People are just not inspired to go out and vote for candidates who won't do anything after they get elected.

You can also look at this:

http://act.boldprogressives.org/cms/sign/mapollresults/?source=dkos

HEALTH CARE BILL OPPONENTS THINK IT "DOESN'T GO FAR ENOUGH"
by 3 to 2 among Obama voters who voted for Brown
by 6 to 1 among Obama voters who stayed home
(18% of Obama supporters who voted supported Brown.)

VOTERS OVERWHELMINGLY SUPPORT THE PUBLIC OPTION
82% of Obama voters who voted for Brown
86% of Obama voters who stayed home


OBAMA VOTERS WANT DEMOCRATS TO BE BOLDER
57% of Brown voters say Obama "not delivering enough" on change he promised
49% to 37% among voters who stayed home
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it's not a rejection of Obama policies, it's anger that he's not implementing them.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

rufus said:
Obama bears as much of the blame as they do. He has absolutely refused to lead on the issue, to lay out what he wants and then fight and twist arms to make it happen. Similarly, he hasn't come out in any speeches and said straightforward, this is what we stand for, and this is what we're gonna do.

He's abdicated any sort of leadership or stewardship of the proposal to the likes of Max Baucus, Olympia Snowe, and Joe Lieberman. And he's been incredibly wishy washy in comments about the legislation they've come up with, giving it lukewarm, if any, support, and often turning his back on things he advocated during the campaign.
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i think this is largely unfair. obama (like any boss) has to delegate to get things done. Not to mention, congress needs to approve of his actions anyway - so looping them in at the beginning is the most effective way to go.

however, he did fail (possibly intentionally) in telling the dem leaders (ie reid and pelosi) to play nice. but assuming they thought it was a formality to get those 60 senate seats they most likely put the cart before the horse.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

rufus said:
No, they stayed home and didn't vote because they were frustrated and disillusioned with what's been done so far with that supermajority.

Saw a stat a couple days ago, in 2008, almost 50% of under 30 voters turned out for the election. In the Mass. special election, that number was 15%.

People are just not inspired to go out and vote for candidates who won't do anything after they get elected.

You can also look at this:

http://act.boldprogressives.org/cms/sign/mapollresults/?source=dkos



it's not a rejection of Obama policies, it's anger that he's not implementing them.
Click to expand...


One other take on this would be:

Make a bunch of far-fetched promises and you mobilize incremental voters in the target audience...once they realize that the likelihood of all those promises coming to fruition is near zero, you lose those incremental voters and revert back to the baseline voters.

Counting on special interest voters to become recurring voters is optimistic, some probably do persist but likely not enough to materially change the baseline mix as the emergence of a large subset of new voters also will mobilize a subset of the latent voters on the other side in the next election.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

SteveF said:
i think this is largely unfair. obama (like any boss) has to delegate to get things done. Not to mention, congress needs to approve of his actions anyway - so looping them in at the beginning is the most effective way to go.

however, he did fail (possibly intentionally) in telling the dem leaders (ie reid and pelosi) to play nice. but assuming they thought it was a formality to get those 60 senate seats they most likely put the cart before the horse.
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True to some extent, but he also has the powr of the bully pulpit to get out there in front of the issue and lead, cajole, or even force them to take the policy path that he favors. But he just sat back while Max Baucus took the lead in crafting the legislation, which left out much of what he had advocated for on the campaign trail, and inn the negotiations wityh Snowe, Lieberman and the rest, they carved out even more.

When Bush wanted a wiretapping bill that bypassed FISA, he laid out what he wanted, and the Repub leaders in the Congress made sure that was what he got, with minimal to no changes or concessions.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

rufus said:
Right, cause this whole health care reform thing hasn't been a bit about compromise.

If he was the idelaogue you claim he is, he would have walked into Congress, said 'this is what I want' and then strongarmed them and browbeat them into giving it to him.

You know, like Dick Cheney did.
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he never would have gotten it and he would have destroyed his crafted image of intelligent and calm leadership. He would have shattered his own image and he'd never get it back.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

rufus said:
Funny, cause polls in Massachusetts say exactly the opposite, that they don't think Obama's been forceful enough, nor gone far enough in his policy goals.

But keep on believing what you want to believe, if it makes you feel all superior at the end of the day.
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Actually, Massachusetts is starting to look like the rest of the country -- blue on the fringes and lots of red in the middle. The Blues were blue and stayed home. The Reds were seeing red and got out. The bruised went red this time -- mostly because they were fed up with politics as usual in the Commonwealth.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Well, I'm flummoxed. I thought for sure that rufus or Rover would be quoted in this article.

Not sure how they missed talking to the other two people on the planet who didn't get the message. :)
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

LynahFan said:
Well, I'm flummoxed. I thought for sure that rufus or Rover would be quoted in this article.

Not sure how they missed talking to the other two people on the planet who didn't get the message. :)
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Yeah, just ignore all the polling data that indicates otherwise. But, that's what you guys do.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Some of Obama's recent steps may be questionable in different ways...but the whole Brown episode is waay over done.

All Mass's politicians are liberal...and the 'conservatives' who aren't moderates are shown the door very quickly. Even one's like Romney who are a serious candidate for president.

Its very common for voters to look for balance...even in 2008 after the Bush era, many new Republicans were voted in as a balance to what would be an upcoming heavy Dem majority in the govt. In the Bush aftermath, I was ready to punish Republicans...but voted for new Republicans for this overall reason.

And he won with what 52%? That equates to a relatively small swing of voters.

So Brown's election was not a surprise...in fact piling on with more Dems at this point would have been. And a huge number of Mass voters were trying to do just that.
 
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I don't really care one way or the other since I'm against the current health care bill and won't mind seeing it be defeated. However, consider that Norm Coleman didn't win the MN senate seat because MN voters were in love with him nor disgusted with what came before him, he won because when Wellstone died the Dems replaced him with a joke of a candidate.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

I'm glad to see that Obama is taking the first (albeit minor) steps toward fiscal sanity, but I agree with the CBO that much more needs to be done.

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO), the government’s official fiscal scorekeeper, said Tuesday that the government faces a “daunting” fiscal future. The 2010 federal budget deficit will be $1.35 trillion, nearly as large as last year’s record $1.4 trillion budget shortfall, and deficits will average $600 billion over the next decade, according to CBO’s budget outlook.

“U.S. fiscal policy is on an unsustainable path to an extent that cannot be solved by minor tinkering,” said CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf.

He warned large amounts of debt often crowd out private investment, hampering worker productivity and income.

The unemployment rate will average more than 10 percent for the first half of this year and then decline at a slower pace than in past recoveries, the CBO said. The jobless rate won’t return to a sustainable level of 5 percent until 2014, the budget office predicted.
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Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

5mn_Major said:
And he won with what 52%? That equates to a relatively small swing of voters.
.
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I thought 52% was a landslide and a mandate from the people? Maybe that only applies to Obama?
 
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