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Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

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Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

If by this you mean that Fox warps and falsifies information for its political agenda?

The answer as rufus pointed out is a definite yes.

Let's take a look for agendas here (either against opposing parties or sympathy/fear/hate):

Top headlines:

Fox News:
SAY IT AIN'T SO, JOE...GOP BLASTS BIDEN'S IRAQ CLAIM
Republicans outraged after vice president, despite being against surge initially, says the success in Iraq could be one of Obama administration's 'great achievements.'

CBS News:
CLINTON HOSPITALIZED IN NEW YORK CITY
(Note there was no discussion about how he was a great president...only facts about his current condition)

Clearly no bias at either "news" outlet here ;)

Major I'm at a loss and can only conclude your judgement is so clouded or you are so stupid that you cannot see the difference between the examples I cited and the ones you and Rover and any other members of the Amen chorus wish to point to. I challenged you libs to cite an example of deliberate lying and deception by Fox and you give me a couple of headlines with a perspective you don't like. What you haven't included in your narrative is the time frame of these stories, did they appear on the evening news? I'd be inclined to agree that in "stacking" an evening newscast, the Clinton story should probably lead. But it's also news that the Vice President is apparantly wanting to take credit for a strategy he opposed. But this headline game is not even close to what the Times did. Seriously, what makes a man so stubborn that he can't acknowledge what is in front of his face?

Bias of the kind that has your panties in a wad is not that uncommon, and yes, Fox engages in it along with MSNBC and all the rest. But in your delirium about Fox, you've put yourself out on the end of a very thin branch.

Walter Duranty wrote and the New York Times published articles in which Duranty informed his American readers that there was no terror famine in the Ukraine. At the time he wrote those articles, 25,000 Ukranians a day were dying of starvation, and he knew it. I say again, 25,000 Ukranians a day were dying of starvation--and this Stalinist mouthpece KNEW IT. These were not deaths caused by agricultural failures, they were deaths deliberately engineered by Stalin to punish Ukraine for its independent aspirations and to raise gold for his five year plan. This was a crime at least on the level of the Holocaust, and the New York Times HELPED TO COVER IT UP. And that helped Stalin's world image--evidently an important goal for Duranty.

This gigantic fraud and deception was perpetrated on America (because Duranty's lies were syndicated) by the New York Times, which still honors Duranty's Pulitzer in its lobby. And you evidently are so completely in cloud cuckoo land that you can't even conceed that perhaps the Times may have violated some sort of journalistic convention or another here.

Your fevers about Fox have rendered you without even the most basic standards of judgement. I will not discuss anything with a man so prejudiced, so bigoted, so delusional, he cannot see that what the Times and Duranty did here is several orders of magnitude more serious and more evil than anything Roger Ailes has ever thought of doing. So you just stay there, hiding under the covers, shivering with outrage about Fox, fully convinced Fox is evil. Pal, Fox is a rank beginner in this game. And you should know better and be willing to admit it. But you lack even that tiny bit of intellectual honesty.
 
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Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Equating the motivation, method and outcomes of Social Security to the motivation, method and outcomes of Socialism is, at best, a failed play on words.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Major I'm at a loss and can only conclude your judgement is so clouded or you are so stupid that you cannot see the difference between the examples I cited and the ones you and Rover and any other members of the Amen chorus wish to point to..


Don't recall chiming in on this subject (because its kinda boring) but since you brought me into it...

The media sucks. Political press, financial press, sports, editorials, etc. I don't know why this is, but smart people don't got into journalism anymore. Maybe because the jobs don't pay. Regardless the media aggravates everybody because of shoddy work and no standards.

I'll give a good example. A dozen years ago we had a heavily contested Senate race in Mass between Sen. Kerry and Gov. Weld. For some inexplicable reason, a Globe business reporter (?) kept writing articles during the campaign that Kerry as a soldier in Vietnam executed an unarmed enemy soldier. This reporter wasn't there, had no facts to back it up, and his account was disproven by Kerry's fellow soldiers who witnessed the event. Yet the guy kept writing article after article. Now, the Globe doesn't have a conservative bias. It was just sh ! tty journalism and a paper who's editors apparently treat their position as a no-show job.


So, the bias is towards stupidity and sensationalism. The funny part is media in general is getting killed financially, and they keep blaming it on the internet or a fragmented way people get their news. I'm sure that's partly true, but the collapse in quality IMO has as much to do with that.

Regarding networks, Fox is loud and proud with their GOP bias. The other networks have a liberal issue bias, but don't cheerlead the Dems as much, mostly because they're too wimpy and live in fear of a backlash. To that end I give Fox credit. You know what you're getting, and they don't try to hide it.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Don't recall chiming in on this subject (because its kinda boring) but since you brought me into it...

The media sucks. Political press, financial press, sports, editorials, etc. I don't know why this is, but smart people don't got into journalism anymore. Maybe because the jobs don't pay. Regardless the media aggravates everybody because of shoddy work and no standards.

I'll give a good example. A dozen years ago we had a heavily contested Senate race in Mass between Sen. Kerry and Gov. Weld. For some inexplicable reason, a Globe business reporter (?) kept writing articles during the campaign that Kerry as a soldier in Vietnam executed an unarmed enemy soldier. This reporter wasn't there, had no facts to back it up, and his account was disproven by Kerry's fellow soldiers who witnessed the event. Yet the guy kept writing article after article. Now, the Globe doesn't have a conservative bias. It was just sh ! tty journalism and a paper who's editors apparently treat their position as a no-show job.


So, the bias is towards stupidity and sensationalism. The funny part is media in general is getting killed financially, and they keep blaming it on the internet or a fragmented way people get their news. I'm sure that's partly true, but the collapse in quality IMO has as much to do with that.

Regarding networks, Fox is loud and proud with their GOP bias. The other networks have a liberal issue bias, but don't cheerlead the Dems as much, mostly because they're too wimpy and live in fear of a backlash. To that end I give Fox credit. You know what you're getting, and they don't try to hide it.

WOW
A rational post by Rover, who'd a thunk it:p
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Don't recall chiming in on this subject (because its kinda boring) but since you brought me into it...

The media sucks. Political press, financial press, sports, editorials, etc. I don't know why this is, but smart people don't got into journalism anymore. Maybe because the jobs don't pay. Regardless the media aggravates everybody because of shoddy work and no standards.

I'll give a good example. A dozen years ago we had a heavily contested Senate race in Mass between Sen. Kerry and Gov. Weld. For some inexplicable reason, a Globe business reporter (?) kept writing articles during the campaign that Kerry as a soldier in Vietnam executed an unarmed enemy soldier. This reporter wasn't there, had no facts to back it up, and his account was disproven by Kerry's fellow soldiers who witnessed the event. Yet the guy kept writing article after article. Now, the Globe doesn't have a conservative bias. It was just sh ! tty journalism and a paper who's editors apparently treat their position as a no-show job.


So, the bias is towards stupidity and sensationalism. The funny part is media in general is getting killed financially, and they keep blaming it on the internet or a fragmented way people get their news. I'm sure that's partly true, but the collapse in quality IMO has as much to do with that.

Regarding networks, Fox is loud and proud with their GOP bias. The other networks have a liberal issue bias, but don't cheerlead the Dems as much, mostly because they're too wimpy and live in fear of a backlash. To that end I give Fox credit. You know what you're getting, and they don't try to hide it.

Spot on. Remember a few years ago when stories began to appear claiming that Superbowl Sunday was the worst day of the year for domestic violence? These stories were repeated by national media then "localized" by home town media. Every domestic violence pleader in the country was given the chance to spout her/his favorite tropes and what should be done about it. The only problem was that the datum was simply made up by people who doubtless thought the ends justify the means. Well, whether that's true or not, we should demand more from our media. And our media shouldn't be quite so credulous. Among the elite media, budgetary concerns (staffing levels) may have entered into the equation. Local media (particularly TV) are just stupid and gullible and lazy.

Another example. During the height of the "Missing Child" movement in the 80's it was widely reporrted and discussed that 50,000 children a year are kidnapped in this country. Same phenomenon ensued, lots of coverage, lots of hand wringing but no analysis of the basic claim. It was, of course, false. And you no longer hear it made anymore. This was a claim that would have collapsed under the most rudimentary investigation, but it took an amazingly long time for the facts to catch up to the reality.

Exactly the same thing happened (during the same period) with the child sexual abuse show trials that entertained us for years. No one stopped to ask the most basic question: does it make any sense that there are nests of pedophiles in day care centers all over this country, abusing kids on a massive scale, year after year, and nobody knows anything about it?

One last one: adulterated Halloween candy. Remember how worried we were? Remember the stories on your local TV news? Idiots claiming their kids had gotten candy with a stilson wrench in it. Other idiots offering advice on how to protect your kids. Helpful hospitals offering to X-ray candy as a "public service." Again, not a single confirmed case of adulterated candy ever. Not one. The only child who ever died from adulterated Halloween candy was poisoned by his father for the insurance money. And since the crime occurred in Houston, you know what happened to that father!

There is no one size fits all answer here. But as consumers of news we owe it to ourselves to be less credulous. To understand that there are people out there trying to advance a point of view on a given issue who aren't the slightest bit concerned about the "truth." The toughest part of that is when the "news" fits our personal world view and thus "seems" right. That's part of the reason the examples I cited were taken at face value, so many people thought these crazy claims "sounded" right. Naturally, our media have a responsibility to actually do some reporting. Some do, some don't. But the efforts are inconsistent and the results spotty.

During basic training in the AF, we were told to guard against rumors. And were literally told to respond to them as follows: "what latrine did you get that out of?" Ungrammatical but effective. I wouldn't recommend the latrine reference, but the attitude might be one that serves us well.
 
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Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Thanks Obama, I enjoyed the $7 bump in my paycheck and I hope you now enjoy the $200 I have to give back to you.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Equating the motivation, method and outcomes of Social Security to the motivation, method and outcomes of Socialism is, at best, a failed play on words.
Please tell me your definition of socialism. I have a feeling it's not the same as what I'm finding in my copy of Webster's.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Please tell me your definition of socialism. I have a feeling it's not the same as what I'm finding in my copy of Webster's.

Nice try. If you did look it up you wouldn't have posted this.

You did mean Merriam-Webster, not the little guy from TV, right?


edit:

but, just to be sure we are talking the same Webster, here is the definition from the online version...

Main Entry: so·cial·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1837
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done


Now, why don't you tell your definition of Social Security.
 
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Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Main Entry: so·cial·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1837
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

...and for anyone in the class, how exactly is the US becoming socialist?
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

...and for anyone in the class, how exactly is the US becoming socialist?

the goal is to control the means of production in regards to medical care, is it not? The only thing they won't own is the doctors and hospitals themselves but they'll dictate costs. Heck the only reason we don't get to that latter stage is because people won't allow such a naked power grab... look at all those people who think that all research in the US should be conducted under the aegis of the government through academic fields and positions because of the "higher calling of academia" ideal. I'm sure that there are others who want all hospitals and doctors direct control and ownership of the state in order to be fair.

The whole purpose of this healthcare extravaganza is to inflate the costs of private insurance like a balloon which will then make universal health care look awesome. Why else have dems been resistant to all attempts to lower costs by other means?

edit: socialisim may not be the all appropriate word... but what do you call it when you've got certain people clamoring for state involvement in say a football championship between private and semi-private (US state level) actors? Governmentarianism?
 
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Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

...and for anyone in the class, how exactly is the US becoming socialist?

If the question is 'prove that we are now or soon will be 100% socialist, or prove that the current president is 100% socialist' then I'd say that is a fool's errand. I doubt many people nor any country is 100% anything.

If one were to ask - "under the current president are we moving closer to, staying the same or moving further from the definition below?" What is the answer?

If you laid out the political theories on a line, wouldn't the US democratic party naturally fall closer to socialism than the US Republicans would? Is that a big revelation?
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

If the question is 'prove that we are now or soon will be 100% socialist, or prove that the current president is 100% socialist' then I'd say that is a fool's errand. I doubt many people nor any country is 100% anything.

If one were to ask - "under the current president are we moving closer to, staying the same or moving further from the definition below?" What is the answer?

If you laid out the political theories on a line, wouldn't the US democratic party naturally fall closer to socialism than the US Republicans would? Is that a big revelation?

And the GOP would be closer to Fascism. Is that a revelation?
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

And the GOP would be closer to Fascism. Is that a revelation?
A lot of scholars like to put fascism on the far right of the political spectrum, but a lot fascism's proponents consider it more of a third way different from either socialism and capitalism. Fascism is just another form of collectivism. Fascism advocates significant government control over business and labor, not exactly conservative/republican principals. Fascism is to a large degree anti-capitalist. Modern democrats are far closer to socialism politically than the republicans ever have been to fascism.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

A lot of scholars like to put fascism on the far right of the political spectrum, but a lot fascism's proponents consider it more of a third way different from either socialism and capitalism. Fascism is just another form of collectivism. Fascism advocates significant government control over business and labor, not exactly conservative/republican principals. Fascism is to a large degree anti-capitalist. Modern democrats are far closer to socialism politically than the republicans ever have been to fascism.

But Bill, it is far more fun to throw around terms that aren't understood and see which ones stick. Why get bogged down in the actual definition of these forms of government, just accuse the other side of some kind of 'ism and hope the average person won't take the time to acquaint themselves with the facts.
 
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