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Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

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Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Oh dear Lord, you do realize that all the people you mentioned are commentators who are paid to offer their opinions on the news?

:rolleyes:

That's true, but like Jon Stewart pointed out to O'Reilly the other night, THEY (the commentators, like Palin) ARE ADVERTISED as fair and balanced. And when you drill that mantra into all the mindless automatons that live in the US they actually start to believe it.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

It's notable that the poll does not define socialism in any way.

So, interesting data on what people think about the word socialism. As for social policies? Not so much.

Lets be honest, how many Americans really know what socialism is?

I'm going to say less than 15% of America truly understands what socialism even is.

And of that 15 percent, how many of them reject Social Security out of principle? :D

All right then, gentlemen. Can you write down a definition of socialism as you understand it in such a way that a similar survey would find support from more than 50% of Americans? I'm not talking about cherry-picking individual questions ("Are you in favor of the government providing service X to disadvantaged group Y"), but an actual, complete definition of socialism. The entire survey would read:

"Socialism is _________. Do you believe the US government should become more socialistic than it is today?"
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

No need to do research...but...

The things you mentioned were a handful of specific episodes over 50 years. Your key example was one guy, Rather, who was biased...you take him out and a CBS track record of bias is thin at most in this generation.

The big difference is that stations like CBS or CNBC have a few examples of individuals that have opinions. CNBC has guys like Kudlow and Jim Cramer that may appear to push that network to the right...but in reality, they are a couple of isolated guys with a few opinions. Frankly, if Fox would have had dirt on Obama and held it back a month or so...it would have been one of the most mild mannered acts they committed all campaign.

These other channels are nothing like the real left and right wing media outlets. Hannity, OReilly, Beck, Huckabee, Coulter, Palin...its each of these and every single day. BBC and Fox have institutionalized bias so that there agenda is melded in with news.

Institutionalized agenda=biased.

...and no need to belittle my pov, just show how I'm wrong.

I'm guessing if I'd provided 10 or 110 examples of CBS' historic biases, you would have waved them away, too. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

You talk about Rather as if he had blackmailed his way into his various high profile positions with CBS news. As if he had pictures of Don Hewitt with teenage boys, and THAT's why he was their WH correspondent and then 60 Minutes anchor and anchor of the evening news. He occupied those positions because the powers that be at CBS news viewed the world as he does not because they don't.

So your "if you just take Rather out of the equation" analysis falls flat on its face.

You (and by extension all of the reflexive Fox bashers) apparantly are incapable of understanding the difference between news and opinion. Rather was held up as a journalist. His appearances on CBS over the years were productions of the CBS news division, in the "proud tradition" of Edward R. Murrow and later, Walter Cronkite. He was "reporting honestly," not "trying to advance a point of view." I believe my handful of examples shows how preposterous and untrue those assertions were, both for Rather and his colleagues.

As I've posted previousy, I'm not a fan of the various cable pontificators, left or right (although I must confess to really enjoying the funereal fury on MSNBC the night Scott Brown was elected, but I digress) and seldom watch them. Nothing any of them does can accurately be called "news." So why would you insist on explaining away my examples of CBS' news bias by pointing to O'Reilly or Hannity or anybody else? They do opinion, not news. As do Olbermann and the very feminine Maddow. Why do you insist on comparing apples to oranges? My guess is it's because you have no answer to CBS' historic and continuing lapses in journalistic practice.

Finally, with all due respect, your pov NEEDS belittling. You are the one who criticizes America for its "overarching adherance" to concepts like "open capitalism" and "overseas military adventurism" and (my personal favorite) "relatively high rates of censorship." You are free to criticize America as you see fit, and I am free to criticize your criticism. Let the other posters decide the merits of our positions.

IMHO, you reflect a point of view with which I've dealt my entire life, through the cold war and right up until the present day: there is basically nothing that happens anywhere that can't be blamed on the United States, or that the United States didn't bring on itself, or that the United States made worse, or that wouldn't resolve itself if the United States would just mind its own business. Most especially, that the United States is in no way exceptional and should learn to be humble when dealing with the world. The current occupant of the White House is an adherant of that principle. And I fear that the time is coming when he will learn that bowing and groveling before dictators, potentates and emperors will not serve the interests of our country well.
 
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Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

I'm guessing if I'd provided 10 or 110 examples of CBS' historic biases, you would have waved them away, too. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

You talk about Rather as if he had blackmailed his way into his various high profile positions with CBS news. As if he had pictures of Don Hewitt with teenage boys, and THAT's why he was their WH correspondent and then 60 Minutes anchor and anchor of the evening news. He occupied those positions because the powers that be at CBS news viewed the world as he does not because they don't.

...

IMHO, you reflect a point of view with which I've dealt my entire life, through the cold war and right up until the present day: there is basically nothing that happens anywhere that can't be blamed on the United States, or that the United States didn't bring on itself, or that the United States made worse, or that wouldn't resolve itself if the United States would just mind its own business. Most especially, that the United States is in no way exceptional and should learn to be humble when dealing with the world. The current occupant of the White House is an adherant of that principle. And I fear that the time is coming when he will learn that bowing and groveling before dictators, potentates and emperors will not serve the interests of our country well.

So because I don't see the 50th or 60th example of bias...they automatically exist? What kind of logic is that?

What I don't understand is why CBS is fair game in this discussion (because you feel its news) and Fox is not (because, regardless of what the channel itself says, in your opinion its not news).

Fox positions itself as a cable news network, full, stop...and its most important market position is 'fair and balanced'. What is the outcome of news given with a political agenda that infiltrates every show on the network? Its news is biased. If you'd like evidence of that, lets compare CBS' and Fox' news websites to find out how much CBS touts on giving to the poor and Fox touts about how our enemies are out to get us...

So...have we met before? Do I hate America? Did I criticize America for capitalism, etc? I don't think so. I did criticize Obama for his moves against the banks. But if you think the US needs defenders from folks like me you're very much missing the point.

The US needs to be challenged from within. The last thing the US needs is to be pampered by its citizens...then we will get our lunches eaten. For starters, we don't need to paying half of the world's military budget. The next century will not be about who will yell the loudest on foriegn policy...but rather who wins in the marketplace. And I don't want to see America lose.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

All right then, gentlemen. Can you write down a definition of socialism as you understand it in such a way that a similar survey would find support from more than 50% of Americans? I'm not talking about cherry-picking individual questions ("Are you in favor of the government providing service X to disadvantaged group Y"), but an actual, complete definition of socialism. The entire survey would read:

"Socialism is _________. Do you believe the US government should become more socialistic than it is today?"

No, I can't really boil it down that simply. Which is the whole point - the word, as is, means different things to different people. So, we know that people don't like "socialism," but we also know that a program like social security is incredibly popular. Point being, I don't think you can extrapolate much as to what people would think of socialist policies, particularly since everything in American society has a strong mixture of both capitalist and socialist heritage.

To me, that poll shows more about the mood of the nation and the state of the current rhetoric than anything else. It's a poll about messaging and communication, not about policy - which is what I was trying to point out.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

So because I don't see the 50th or 60th example of bias...they automatically exist? What kind of logic is that?

What I don't understand is why CBS is fair game in this discussion (because you feel its news) and Fox is not (because, regardless of what the channel itself says, in your opinion its not news).

Fox positions itself as a cable news network, full, stop...and its most important market position is 'fair and balanced'. What is the outcome of news given with a political agenda that infiltrates every show on the network? Its news is biased. If you'd like evidence of that, lets compare CBS' and Fox' news websites to find out how much CBS touts on giving to the poor and Fox touts about how our enemies are out to get us...

So...have we met before? Do I hate America? Did I criticize America for capitalism, etc? I don't think so. I did criticize Obama for his moves against the banks. But if you think the US needs defenders from folks like me you're very much missing the point.

The US needs to be challenged from within. The last thing the US needs is to be pampered by its citizens...then we will get our lunches eaten. For starters, we don't need to paying half of the world's military budget. The next century will not be about who will yell the loudest on foriegn policy...but rather who wins in the marketplace. And I don't want to see America lose.

Do you even read your own posts? Or are they on a tele-prompter? I got into this by responding to your assertion that you found accusations of CBS's biases to be "dubious." I'm assuming you remember writing those words.

I offered specific, well known, well documented examples of CBS' historic biases and efforts to put its thumb on the scales and you waved them away. I believe I've established a prima facia case here, but, since you don't want to believe it, you change the subject. The buried premise of your argument is that there is a discrete number of journalistic lapses by CBS that will turn you around. Okay, how many? Give me the number and I'll try to provide you with the examples. So far, however, I believe I've established that CBS has a history of bias in its "reporting," which you dismiss out of hand. That leads me to conclude you can't be convinced, sort of like a JFK conspiratorialist, for whom the existance of the "conspiracy" has become an article of faith, beyond normal standards of discussion.

The centerpiece of your reasoning seems to be that Fox is worse than CBS, therefore CBS' misfeasance, malfeasance and nonfeasance shouldn't count. Are you really arguing that since this upstart, "extreme right wing" outfit can't separate news from opinion, that it's okay for the "tiffany" network to do the same thing? Two wrongs DO make a right? Really? I say again, I'm not defending Fox, but it is interesting the degree to which some folks (you?) are utterly obsessed by what goes on there. Why not change the channel? Works for me.

I didn't use the word "hate" in discussing your opinions of your country. I did, however, quote you (accurately) as talking about our "overarching adherance" to "open capitalism," "overseas military adventurism" and "a relatively high rate of censorship." These are your words, not mine. You're free to use any words you wish. And I am free to draw any reasonable conclusion I wish from them.

"Blame America First" is a virus for which there is no vaccine.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

It was fun listening to the fair and balanced guy on Fox News tonight tell the World how much the mainstream media hates the Tea Party movement. He spent the first 20 minutes of his program hammering it into the automatons that he was spouting facts. Facts about hatred.
 
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Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

This thread is a like a car crash. And Rover hasn't even posted yet.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

This thread is a like a car crash. And Rover hasn't even posted yet.

No, no, no. You don't say like, you say it IS a car crash and then make sure that everyone knows it is a fact not an opinion. :D
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

No, no, no. You don't say like, you say it IS a car crash and then make sure that everyone knows it is a fact not an opinion. :D
I don't have a dog in this fight. MSNBC and Fox News both suck and I weep for anyone on this thread who is stupid enough to take either one seriously.

I'm just going to operate in my own bubble where everyone is full of **** except me. All this thread needs is Hokydad trying to get people banned and referring to Patman as an area clown from Rosindale.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

It was fun listening to the fair and balanced guy on Fox News tonight tell the World how much the mainstream media hates the Tea Party movement. He spent the first 20 minutes of his program hammering it into the automatons that he was spouting facts. Facts about hatred.
Well there's your problem, you weren't watching Beck, because Beck is all about how he loves America SOOO MUCH! Not your America though, he loves the real America.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Do you even read your own posts? Or are they on a tele-prompter? I got into this by responding to your assertion that you found accusations of CBS's biases to be "dubious." I'm assuming you remember writing those words.
...

The centerpiece of your reasoning seems to be that Fox is worse than CBS, therefore CBS' misfeasance, malfeasance and nonfeasance shouldn't count. Are you really arguing that since this upstart, "extreme right wing" outfit can't separate news from opinion, that it's okay for the "tiffany" network to do the same thing? Two wrongs DO make a right? Really? I say again, I'm not defending Fox, but it is interesting the degree to which some folks (you?) are utterly obsessed by what goes on there. Why not change the channel? Works for me.

Let me explain. If CBS was the only outlet on earth...the term liberal is meaningless and it just comes down to my opinion (and in your eyes your own opinion). A comparative with other outlets is necessary...if you're applying a comparative evaluation (liberal)...and you are.

In the end, Fox is on the right (which slants its news with its agenda)...BBC is on the left (which slants its news with its agenda)...and CBS is in the middle (a station for which there is no evidence of any overarching agenda).

I didn't use the word "hate" in discussing your opinions of your country. I did, however, quote you (accurately) as talking about our "overarching adherance" to "open capitalism," "overseas military adventurism" and "a relatively high rate of censorship." These are your words, not mine. You're free to use any words you wish. And I am free to draw any reasonable conclusion I wish from them.

"Blame America First" is a virus for which there is no vaccine.

Show me where I 'blame America' and what I blame it for...I simply explained American attributes relative to the world. Both great ones...ones with opportunity. And no, I'm not whomever from your past you think you're debating with.

"Continuously Improve America First" is the vaccine to deliver an even better future.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Lets be honest, how many Americans really know what socialism is?

I'm going to say less than 15% of America truly understands what socialism even is.

And of that 15 percent, how many of them reject Social Security out of principle? :D

or the graduated income tax system in place since the civil war

It's notable that the poll does not define socialism in any way.

So, interesting data on what people think about the word socialism. As for social policies? Not so much.

win
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

That's true, but like Jon Stewart pointed out to O'Reilly the other night, THEY (the commentators, like Palin) ARE ADVERTISED as fair and balanced. And when you drill that mantra into all the mindless automatons that live in the US they actually start to believe it.

Have you owned-up to the fact you are no different in being an "automaton" of the left?
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Well there's your problem, you weren't watching Beck, because Beck is all about how he loves America SOOO MUCH! Not your America though, he loves the real America.

Glenn Beck is awesome. I will gladly take him over Matthews, Olberman, Hannity or O'Reilly. He's the only person who knows that the revolution is nigh and we must prepare for CIVIL WAR!!
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Have you owned-up to the fact you are no different in being an "automaton" of the left?

Have you owned up to the fact that you're an automaton to the right?

The two of you need to Robot hug it out.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

or the graduated income tax system in place since the civil war

I don't know... there are plenty of people- most of whom who don't realize just how good they have it- who like to spend their days *****ing and moaning about having to pay taxes.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Glenn Beck is awesome. I will gladly take him over Matthews, Olberman, Hannity or O'Reilly. He's the only person who knows that the revolution is nigh and we must prepare for CIVIL WAR!!

Plus, he thinks he's a comedian. Which is funny, in an unintentional kind of way.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Glenn Beck is awesome. I will gladly take him over Matthews, Olberman, Hannity or O'Reilly. He's the only person who knows that the revolution is nigh and we must prepare for CIVIL WAR!!

I think you really mean "HOLY WAR!" :eek: :D
 
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