Obama 6(...66)

[Rover]

Re: Obama 6(...66)

Yeah, that reaction seems a little over the top, maybe there's some pure anti-Obama sentiment involved - but my nit to pick is equating
hoping we don't all have to fund 'Big Dig season 2: The Windy City'
to 'rooting for American to fail' (yours) or 'hating America' (rufus's).
There are legitimate reasons to be glad it's going to Rio.

What would tax payer dollars be used for? I'm not 100% aware of the financing for the Olympics, but I know that sponsors kick in a lot of bucks. Aside from any security issues, which I'd have to imagine are handled by the feds primarily, what else would be paid for by people outside of Chicago - or lets say outside of Illinois? I do know its not set up like China, where the national government builds some multi-billion dollar birds nest stadium.

 

[unofan]

Re: Obama 6(...66)

It seems that the Right begins with an axiom, "The US is good," and then argues back on all issues from that axiom. The Left begins with a set of axioms, "These principles are good," and then argues forward to reach the conclusion "The US was good" (or bad) in this instance.

Or it could be the Right says "These principles are good" and goes from there, while the Left says, "no, These (different) principles are good" and goes from there.

Of course, that doesn't fit into your neat little framework nearly as well.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama 6(...66)

Or it could be the Right says "These principles are good" and goes from there, while the Left says, "no, These (different) principles are good" and goes from there.

Of course, that doesn't fit into your neat little framework nearly as well.

He never said the Right's way of thinking is wrong...and lets be honest currently that is the way they think. The Right believes the US is Just and right in everything we do no exceptions. That is fine, I disagree as does Kepler but that doesn't make it wrong.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama 6(...66)

Not all, only a few operatives who want to get back in power. A few real people follow them blindly, but not many. In this, it's exactly the same as the Left.

There is a difference, and it's interesting (not nefarious). The Right never criticizes the US. When the country does something they don't like, they blame somebody else (the Left, the government, a cabal). Now you can look at this as patriotic, or you can look at it as never accepting responsibility, depending on your perspective.

I think it's a difference in patriotism. It seems that the Right begins with an axiom, "The US is good," and then argues back on all issues from that axiom. The Left begins with a set of axioms, "These principles are good," and then argues forward to reach the conclusion "The US was good" (or bad) in this instance.

That sounds a lot like the difference between positing a supreme being and evaluating all events illuminated by that or beginning with materialist principles and then arguing forward to decide whether there's a God.

Or indeed the general difference between Rationalist and Empiricist philosophies.

If there's any truth to that, it means we'll talk past each other forever, because one personality type's fundamental method of thinking is simply incomprehensible and thus "wrongheaded" to the other. That would make attempts at political persuasion on principles impossible, and all that would be left would be emotional appeals.

Tell you what, Pio -- I apologize for attacking your form of thinking. You're a good guy whose comments are worth reading (there's no point putting you on ignore because I always want to see your posts anyway), and that's probably just a place we don't want to go. Pax vobiscum.

And to you as well, my friend. I could have/should have written the same thing.

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama 6(...66)

What would tax payer dollars be used for? I'm not 100% aware of the financing for the Olympics, but I know that sponsors kick in a lot of bucks. Aside from any security issues, which I'd have to imagine are handled by the feds primarily, what else would be paid for by people outside of Chicago - or lets say outside of Illinois? I do know its not set up like China, where the national government builds some multi-billion dollar birds nest stadium.

Fortunately, it's a moot point and probably not worth speculating about. As for what tax dollars "might have been" used for, I don't imagine that a year ago you'd have predicted government ownership of GM. The interventionist/nanny/socialist (whatever you call it) frame of mind is always a slippery slope, the first step doesn't seem too bad.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama 6(...66)

Fortunately, it's a moot point and probably not worth speculating about. As for what tax dollars "might have been" used for, I don't imagine that a year ago you'd have predicted government ownership of GM. The interventionist/nanny/socialist (whatever you call it) frame of mind is always a slippery slope, the first step doesn't seem too bad.

I'm thinking more of what was done in the past might help show how this would have been set up. Atlanta & Salt Lake City in particular. Did the Mittster just put the '02 games on his credit card?

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama 6(...66)

I'm thinking more of what was done in the past might help show how this would have been set up. Atlanta & Salt Lake City in particular. Did the Mittster just put the '02 games on his credit card?

quick google result for Atlanta reveals that lessons were learned there:

"When they said, 'You've won the Olympics,' they gave us a letter and a bill for $1.5 million for the victory party. Frankly, we didn't have a penny," Young said.

That's when the committee turned to private investors.

Richard Padgett, who headed the Downtown Development Authority, said it was a mistake for Atlanta to try to finance the Olympics only with private funds. As a result, he said, the city missed an opportunity to solicit state and federal funds to revitalize neighborhoods and upgrade infrastructure, such as roads and an aged sewer system that the city is now spending $4 billion to replace.

Had the US pres been a former Senator "from" Atlanta, maybe they wouldn't have had these "problems" of a public funding shortfall. (Yes, I'm speculating)

edit: I'm sure that somewhere in here there's info. on SLC.
http://www.chicago2016.com/2016/ind...er-than-ever-&catid=24:pro-articles&Itemid=28

While private companies often contribute a share of the capital costs (beyond the purchase of sponsorships), host governmental bodies usually pick up a substantial part of the tag. Moreover, as we have seen, not all the money generated at the Games stays in the host city to pay for the Games; rather, close to half the money goes to support the activities of the IFs, the NOCs and the IOC itself

But again, it's moot so that's all the time I'll waste on it.

 

[blockski]

Re: Obama 6(...66)

The idea that the Olympics should be privately financed is fine in the abstract, but as that tale from Atlanta says, then you miss out on the opportunity for long term leverage of the event for the greater good. Vancouver will have new transit lines, SLC wouldn't have their light rail system without the games, etc.

The Olympics provide the big goal and deadline, as well as a longer term timeframe that politicians don't usually like. That's the value to infrastructure and other long term investments.

Had Chicago won, they'd have the chance to make long term investments in the El and other transit infrastructure that would last well beyond the Games. There's no way you can or should finance those kind of improvements with private sponsorship.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama 6(...66)

quick google result for Atlanta reveals that lessons were learned there:


Had the US pres been a former Senator "from" Atlanta, maybe they wouldn't have had these "problems" of a public funding shortfall. (Yes, I'm speculating)

So it was paid for with private funds. Interesting. They did upgrade the highway system and build Turner Field, as well as I believe some dorms for GT which served as the athlete's village. They also built Millenium Park. If all that was done without gubmint money good for them.

Edit: Read the full article. I'm of a different opinion than some maybe. I don't think you go on a massive building spree for quasi-related things. I'd rather have it in a city that already has a lot of the infrastructure, particularly and critically transit, instead of having them put that in for the games.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Obama 6(...66)

Its painfully obvious that conservatives have put anti-Obamaism above rooting for their country.

Has the world tipped off it's axis?

Rover complaining conservatives aren't nationalistic enough? Between the mindset of many of today's conservatives and Rover now walking around whistling Horst-Wessel-Lied, we're all completely screwed.

 

[unofan]

Re: Obama 6(...66)

He never said the Right's way of thinking is wrong...and lets be honest currently that is the way they think. The Right believes the US is Just and right in everything we do no exceptions. That is fine, I disagree as does Kepler but that doesn't make it wrong.

So then where do I, and people like me, fit in? I'm surely not a on the Left (at least overall), but I also am not a part of the Right as you and Kepler seem to see it.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama 6(...66)

we're all completely screwed.

Now you're getting it.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama 6(...66)

Or it could be the Right says "These principles are good" and goes from there, while the Left says, "no, These (different) principles are good" and goes from there.

It certainly could. Can you identify times when the US has been wrong/bad? That would be the critical test.

 

[dropthatpuck]

Re: Obama 6(...66)

So then where do I, and people like me, fit in? I'm surely not a on the Left (at least overall), but I also am not a part of the Right as you and Kepler seem to see it.

Don't let those birds fool you. You're mainstream. They've been walking in circles in the same patch of woods for most of their lives.

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama 6(...66)

It certainly could. Can you identify times when the US has been wrong/bad? That would be the critical test.

# November 4, 2008
# November 5, 1996
# November 3, 1992
# November 2, 1976

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama 6(...66)

Don't let those birds fool you. You're mainstream. They've been walking in circles in the same patch of woods for most of their lives.

Yeah, you know nothing about me so why dont you keep your opinions to yourself, you sound like Rover with your inaccuracies

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama 6(...66)

# November 4, 2008
# November 5, 1996
# November 3, 1992
# November 2, 1976

Hehe

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama 6(...66)

# November 4, 2008
# November 5, 1996
# November 3, 1992
# November 2, 1976

I wish I'd said that.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama 6(...66)

Yeah, you know nothing about me so why dont you keep your opinions to yourself, you sound like Rover with your inaccuracies

Hey, when I dedicate all my free time to rebuilding a rock formation that fell to pieces years ago that sort of looked like an old guy's face if you were stoned or drunk, then you can compare me to dropthatpuck. In the meantime, leave me out of this.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama 6(...66)

Hey, when I dedicate all my free time to rebuilding a rock formation that fell to pieces years ago that sort of looked like an old guy's face if you were stoned or drunk, then you can compare me to dropthatpuck. In the meantime, leave me out of this.

Its good you're dedicating the time to the rocks between your ears