Re: Obama 6(...66)
I don't know that that's what Old Pio is really saying (although he did try to defend the position of liberals as the enemy with his whole "The American Left was absolutely positively against us getting into World War II"... as if the entire nation wasn't supporting an isolationist philosphy on account of WWI and the Depression. The line of people itching to get involved in another expensive war on foreign soil was insanely short until 12-7-41.... but naw, it was all those **** libs!)
Patman can go ahead and name as many Marxist organizations as he desires, it doesn't change the fact that violent opposition to Americans by Americans is bi-partisan. For every gun-toting Marxist or vandalous environmentalist, there's also neo-Nazi fascist groups, abortion clinic bombers, Eric Robert Rudolph (Atlanta Olympic bomber) and that neo-nazi fascist that opened fire in the Holocaust Museum this summer.
When I tell you people that there are criminals on both sides of the political spectrum, it doesn't do anything to discredit my point to say "oh, look at these Marxist terrorists in Puerto Rico... those liberals sure hate America". All that does is to show the blinders that are on your eyes when you decry liberals as America hating criminals. Even if I'm exaggerating your claim, and you really just took exception to me pointing out that someone like Timothy McVeigh (decidedly non-liberal) was a cold-blooded murdering psychopath, I don't see how pointing out some marxist terrorist group does anything to discredit the point I made.
And some people *ahem* act like the death threats against W. during war protests were somehow unique to him, which is kind of sad. As if white supremacist groups didn't threaten assassination after Obama's election, or as if Teabaggers aren't showing up to town hall meetings with pictures of him dressed up as Hitler (or the ones that tried to show up with rifles). You think there's a shortage of political assassinations or assassination attempts in this country that reflect a large variety of political persuasions?
Yeesh, you try to point out that its not just liberals that "hate America" and some people just get their panties in a twist.
It's like there isn't even a point to being objective around some people.
Evidently I didn't put it clearly enough. There WAS widespread opposition to America's getting into World War II ffrom both the left and the right. We were isolationist and all. When I said the American Left I should have been more precise. I meant American communists and their various friends in the academy, elite publications and Hollywood. They didn't want us to enter the war because that was the line from Moscow, when the line from Moscow changed after the Wermacht entered the Soviet Union then they changed their minds, overnight. The attack on Pearl Harbor came months later and many more Americans changed their minds. But that first group did so out of fealty to Moscow. I'm assuming you see the difference between an attack on the USSR and an attack on us.
The issue I was addressing was the idea that some on the left in this country don't much like America and have been putting their dislike into writing and action for decades. That much is undeniable. I do not (and didn't) ascribe this notion to all or even most liberals (in the way Carter did with the issue of race).
And you have inverted my argument about presidential "threats." It is BO's friends and admirers who have had a case of the vapors over what has been said at various townhalls and demonstrations. They've suggested, because of the president's race, that these ugly sentiments are something new and unique. They aren't. The language used against W for 8 years was at least that harsh and I don't recall any high profile friends of his (like ex presidents, for instance) making generalized statement about how the vast proportion of that opposition came from some generalized character flaw on the left.
And there certainly was no hand wringing about it on MSNBC or CNN or even FOX.
Personally, I would never use that kind of language in support of anyone or anything. But I submit you're being very selective in forgetting the endless calls for Bush's death, even a film about his assassination. I'm not aware of anyone calling for BO's death (although I'll concede anything is possible in fever swamps of the right).
I believe I've been pretty clear on my view of violence or threats of violence in our country. I oppose it, period. That's why Sarah Jane Moore and Squeaky Fromme should should never have been released from prison. And God forbid anyone takes a shot at BO. If it happens, whoever it is should spend the rest of their lives under the prison. I lived through the Kennedy assasinations and the killing of MLK. It was a bad time and those acts affected me profoundly even though I didn't necessarily support those men.
But it was the left, like Yale's William Sloan Coffin, who showed up in Hanoi condemning our presence in Vietnam, not anybody from the right. And it was the left that proudly carried VC flags and wore their Che Guevara T-shirts (a very odd choice for a hero, you ask me) some of 'em still do. You want to argue moral equivalence here, I just respectfully disagree. I don't attribute any anti-American motives to you or anyone who posts here. But the people I've mentioned are out there, they exist and some of 'em used to be department chairmen at the University of Colorado.
