USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.
- Thread starter Plante26
- Start date
- Status
SPIN CONTROL
is in charge
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.
Well I would think a reputable journal like the NEJM wouldn't just link a random survey without knowing a little something about the people who conducted it.
just sayin...
Well I would think a reputable journal like the NEJM wouldn't just link a random survey without knowing a little something about the people who conducted it.
just sayin...
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.
Shhhh! You're not supposed to talk about insurance companies compensating for the rising cost of healthcare and their relatively meager profit margin! Didn't you get the memo? THEY'RE ****ING EVIL! END OF STORY!
Shhhh! You're not supposed to talk about insurance companies compensating for the rising cost of healthcare and their relatively meager profit margin! Didn't you get the memo? THEY'RE ****ING EVIL! END OF STORY!
ComoSeDiceHockey
New member
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.
NEJM had nothing to do with the survey, not even a link. Media Matters for America contacted the New England Journal of Medicine, which confirmed it neither conducted nor published the "survey." The "report" that right-wing media are citing actually appeared in Recruiting Physicians Today, which is an employment newsletter produced by "the publishers of the New England Journal of Medicine."
http://www.nejmjobs.org/rpt/physician-survey-health-reform-impact.aspx
Tell me again how this survey was made up if it appeared on the NEJM Careers website even with the caveat that the NEJM had nothing to do with conducting the survey.
NEJM had nothing to do with the survey, not even a link. Media Matters for America contacted the New England Journal of Medicine, which confirmed it neither conducted nor published the "survey." The "report" that right-wing media are citing actually appeared in Recruiting Physicians Today, which is an employment newsletter produced by "the publishers of the New England Journal of Medicine."
ComoSeDiceHockey
New member
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.
Profits for the ten largest insurance companies increased 250 percent between 2000 and 2009, ten times faster than inflation.
Profits for the ten largest insurance companies increased 250 percent between 2000 and 2009, ten times faster than inflation.
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.
Please link the site you get this info from, otherwise I have to believe it's left wing propaganda.
Besides, I'm looking for some good investment options for my 401K.
Please link the site you get this info from, otherwise I have to believe it's left wing propaganda.
Besides, I'm looking for some good investment options for my 401K.
SPIN CONTROL
is in charge
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.
Sorry Skippy, but it did have a link on their careers page. I even posted the link to their website so you can see it with your own leftist eyes.
Sorry Skippy, but it did have a link on their careers page. I even posted the link to their website so you can see it with your own leftist eyes.
CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
CBO estimate is in, and good news all around:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...ackage-costs-940-billion-cuts-deficit-by-130b
The highlights: $130Bn in deficit reduction first 10 years. $1.2T the following decade.
Now, if you're a principled fiscal conservative, there's no reason not to support this. The largest deficit reduction package since 1993 (when another Dem congress and President did heroic service to the nation). 30M people covered. Good stuff.
On the other hand, if you're a knuckledragger blinded by partisanship with a slack jaw and a glazed over expression on your face, than perhaps you'd choose to oppose this just because "doze darn Dems preeeposed dit". I'll let you decide which camp you fall into. 
CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
CBO estimate is in, and good news all around:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...ackage-costs-940-billion-cuts-deficit-by-130b
The highlights: $130Bn in deficit reduction first 10 years. $1.2T the following decade.
Now, if you're a principled fiscal conservative, there's no reason not to support this. The largest deficit reduction package since 1993 (when another Dem congress and President did heroic service to the nation). 30M people covered. Good stuff.
On the other hand, if you're a knuckledragger blinded by partisanship with a slack jaw and a glazed over expression on your face, than perhaps you'd choose to oppose this just because "doze darn Dems preeeposed dit". I'll let you decide which camp you fall into.
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
If you're a principled fiscal conservative you want less gov't spending and lower taxes. This does the opposite of both.
Again, if this passes I am still willing to put cash on the table for the deficit reduction claim.
edit: a few of the reasons why the deficit reduction numbers are junk
- non-static estimate of Obamacare ($755B increase to the debt)
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
If you're a principled fiscal conservative you want less gov't spending and lower taxes. This does the opposite of both.
Again, if this passes I am still willing to put cash on the table for the deficit reduction claim.
edit: a few of the reasons why the deficit reduction numbers are junk
- non-static estimate of Obamacare ($755B increase to the debt)
Last edited:
WeWantMore
New member
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.
Idaho has passed a bill directing their Attorney General to file suit against the US government if health care passes. Virginia also has plans to sue. This thing is going to drag on forever.
Idaho has passed a bill directing their Attorney General to file suit against the US government if health care passes. Virginia also has plans to sue. This thing is going to drag on forever.
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
Yeah, tell Idaho "good luck with that". If they had a leg to stand on they would have sued to stop federal income taxes from being collected from their residents. Its the same argument. Every year some idiot tries to bring a lawsuit saying that federal taxes are unconstitutional. Any idea of the success rate of that argument?
Can't open the second link, but I'll address the partisan conclusions of an opinion piece in the first one.
1) Doctor fix not included. Simply put, the doctor fix does have to be addressed separately. Not sure why that's stunning to you. In fact, the Congress should address it in a revenue neutral way. Perhaps coupled with Tort reform even. However, if it makes you feel better, do the math. Doc fix = 371M by this guys' calculation. Obamacare = 1.33 Trillion in deficit reduction. We're still in the black when adding the two together.
2) Cadillac tax. It was said 10 years ago that Congress would never allow the Bush tax cuts for big GOP campaign contributors to expire. Now by and large they will do just that. Same thing here. If something is an automatic kick in, there's a lot more political cover in enacting it.
3) Half % decrease in reimbursements. Yes, the system will be forced to operate more efficiently, or companies will go out of business as the govt will no longer operate as an ATM for Medicare/Medicaid payments. Wait a minute...isn't that a conservative concept??? What are you complaining about again? Oh, that's right. Its a Dem bill.
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
Yeah, tell Idaho "good luck with that".
If they had a leg to stand on they would have sued to stop federal income taxes from being collected from their residents. Its the same argument. Every year some idiot tries to bring a lawsuit saying that federal taxes are unconstitutional. Any idea of the success rate of that argument? Can't open the second link, but I'll address the partisan conclusions of an opinion piece in the first one.
1) Doctor fix not included. Simply put, the doctor fix does have to be addressed separately. Not sure why that's stunning to you. In fact, the Congress should address it in a revenue neutral way. Perhaps coupled with Tort reform even. However, if it makes you feel better, do the math. Doc fix = 371M by this guys' calculation. Obamacare = 1.33 Trillion in deficit reduction. We're still in the black when adding the two together.
2) Cadillac tax. It was said 10 years ago that Congress would never allow the Bush tax cuts for big GOP campaign contributors to expire. Now by and large they will do just that. Same thing here. If something is an automatic kick in, there's a lot more political cover in enacting it.
3) Half % decrease in reimbursements. Yes, the system will be forced to operate more efficiently, or companies will go out of business as the govt will no longer operate as an ATM for Medicare/Medicaid payments. Wait a minute...isn't that a conservative concept??? What are you complaining about again? Oh, that's right. Its a Dem bill.
moe24
Original Lawson Lunatic
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
Let's say for the moment that the CBO numbers turn out to be reasonably accurate. You have to keep in mind that being a principled fiscal conservative also means less government control and less government involvement. And the health care bill, regardless of the numbers, is hardly what you could call less government control. So there is, in fact, very good reason to be opposed to it.
Gee, who knew that hurling unfounded insults was such a good way to foster an open and thoughtful discussion?
How about you try and listen to what the other side has to say instead of looking down on them as if your point of view was the only valid one.
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
Let's say for the moment that the CBO numbers turn out to be reasonably accurate. You have to keep in mind that being a principled fiscal conservative also means less government control and less government involvement. And the health care bill, regardless of the numbers, is hardly what you could call less government control. So there is, in fact, very good reason to be opposed to it.
On the other hand, if you're a knuckledragger blinded by partisanship with a slack jaw and a glazed over expression on your face, than perhaps you'd choose to oppose this just because "doze darn Dems preeeposed dit". I'll let you decide which camp you fall into.
Gee, who knew that hurling unfounded insults was such a good way to foster an open and thoughtful discussion?
How about you try and listen to what the other side has to say instead of looking down on them as if your point of view was the only valid one.
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.
the first state to seceed from the union is going to have plenty of new citizens...the country is divided over which direction we should go, we ping pong back and forth from extreme to extreme, the gridlock is killing the entire country...why not just divide in two, share some common services for a time and let people live in which half they prefer.
the first state to seceed from the union is going to have plenty of new citizens...the country is divided over which direction we should go, we ping pong back and forth from extreme to extreme, the gridlock is killing the entire country...why not just divide in two, share some common services for a time and let people live in which half they prefer.
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.
I think good ol' Abe Lincoln already covered this one. In short, if you allow portions of the country to keep breaking off over anything that they disagree with, pretty soon they'll be nothing left (hence the cause of 'preserving the union').
I think good ol' Abe Lincoln already covered this one. In short, if you allow portions of the country to keep breaking off over anything that they disagree with, pretty soon they'll be nothing left (hence the cause of 'preserving the union').
Foxton
Banned
unofan
Well-known member
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
Incorrect. Fiscal conservatism means one is for restrained government spending. It doesn't mean someone wants non-existent spending (anarchism) or even minimal spending (libertarianism).
It also means you're for higher taxes when necessary, such as paying for wars, paying off debts, and paying for governmental essentials like national defense, a functioning judiciary, and a working government. Constantly harping for "lower taxes" while running the nation's biggest deficit ever isn't a true fiscally conservative position. That's simply shifting today's problems onto future generations.
Imagine how fiscally sound this country would be if we weren't throwing away hundreds of billions of dollars every year in interest.
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
Incorrect. Fiscal conservatism means one is for restrained government spending. It doesn't mean someone wants non-existent spending (anarchism) or even minimal spending (libertarianism).
It also means you're for higher taxes when necessary, such as paying for wars, paying off debts, and paying for governmental essentials like national defense, a functioning judiciary, and a working government. Constantly harping for "lower taxes" while running the nation's biggest deficit ever isn't a true fiscally conservative position. That's simply shifting today's problems onto future generations.
Imagine how fiscally sound this country would be if we weren't throwing away hundreds of billions of dollars every year in interest.
Last edited:
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
Thank you. That's why I used the term "fiscal conservative". Ron Paul accolytes aren't fiscal conservatives, they're whack jobs.
Moe,
The problem with treating "those who disagree" with respect is that the anti-reform argument has been hijacked by morons. Think about it. What have you heard more of: the logistics of health providers accomodating 30M new clients (a legitimate concern) or death panels (lunatic finge)? How often has some idiot on Medicare shown up with a sign at a rally saying "keep the government out of healthcare"? I'd be happy to have a reasoned discussion, but look no further than this board to realize the folly of trying to do that. Obama misspoke the other day at a rally (saying premiums will go down 3000% on avg instead of the 3K he meant to say) and the usual gasbags posted the usual stupidity. Why is this happening? Simply put, there is no viable GOP alternative that saves as much nor covers as many people. That's why they haven't united around a plan. Do you truly believe anything would get done on this issue if the GOP was running things? I'm guessing no, and we'd be back to an unsustainable square one. That's why idiots need to be called out and embarassed. Frankly, they deserve it.
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
Thank you. That's why I used the term "fiscal conservative". Ron Paul accolytes aren't fiscal conservatives, they're whack jobs.
Moe,
The problem with treating "those who disagree" with respect is that the anti-reform argument has been hijacked by morons. Think about it. What have you heard more of: the logistics of health providers accomodating 30M new clients (a legitimate concern) or death panels (lunatic finge)? How often has some idiot on Medicare shown up with a sign at a rally saying "keep the government out of healthcare"? I'd be happy to have a reasoned discussion, but look no further than this board to realize the folly of trying to do that. Obama misspoke the other day at a rally (saying premiums will go down 3000% on avg instead of the 3K he meant to say) and the usual gasbags posted the usual stupidity. Why is this happening? Simply put, there is no viable GOP alternative that saves as much nor covers as many people. That's why they haven't united around a plan. Do you truly believe anything would get done on this issue if the GOP was running things? I'm guessing no, and we'd be back to an unsustainable square one. That's why idiots need to be called out and embarassed. Frankly, they deserve it.
ComoSeDiceHockey
New member
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.
You should invest in WellPoint, UnitedHealth Group, Cigna, Aetna, and Humana. they took in combined profits of $12.2 billion, up 56 percent over 2008. Their profits grew even as GDP decreased by 1 percent over this same period. Especially WellPoint they made $2.7 billion in profits in the most recent quarter alone.
The sources their own financials, audits and IRS 10-k filings with the Securities & Exchange Commission.
http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/insuranceprospers/index.html
Please link the site you get this info from, otherwise I have to believe it's left wing propaganda.
Besides, I'm looking for some good investment options for my 401K.
You should invest in WellPoint, UnitedHealth Group, Cigna, Aetna, and Humana. they took in combined profits of $12.2 billion, up 56 percent over 2008. Their profits grew even as GDP decreased by 1 percent over this same period. Especially WellPoint they made $2.7 billion in profits in the most recent quarter alone.
The sources their own financials, audits and IRS 10-k filings with the Securities & Exchange Commission.
http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/insuranceprospers/index.html
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
How does this "save" anything? Even if you believe the CBO numbers that money comes from somewhere. That is $900B that would have been put to use in the private economy. Thats the part that gets completely overlooked in all of this. If this passes, sadly, people will be longing for the days of 9.7% unemployment in a couple of years.
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction
\
How does this "save" anything? Even if you believe the CBO numbers that money comes from somewhere. That is $900B that would have been put to use in the private economy. Thats the part that gets completely overlooked in all of this. If this passes, sadly, people will be longing for the days of 9.7% unemployment in a couple of years.
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.
And what was their profit margin?
And what was their profit margin?
- Status