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Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

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Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction

Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction

moe24 said:
1 - You're not insulting large groups that participate in idiocy, you're insulting the whole of the conservative movement and the GOP based on your retarded assumption that just because a handful of people say something that the entire group agrees with them. I really feel sorry for you being that filled with arrogance and hate.

2 - Why is someone on Medicare an idiot for speaking out against government involvement? Medicare is a colossal failure of a massive government bureaucracy. There's a reason senior citizens have to spend thousands of dollars on supplemental coverage to make up for what medicare doesn't cover and what they poorly cover. It's perfectly reasonable to not want the government to make a bad thing even worse with more government control and bureaucracy.

3 - You make a very poor assumption that there is a "tort reform solves all" approach out there simply because it is one of the more talked about issues. It's hardly the only issue out there.

4 - To claim the GOP hasn't negotiated in good faith is absurd. How can they negotiate in good faith when the Dems don't even allow them at the table? Closed door meetings and back room deals where the opposition party isn't even invited is hardly a negotiation.
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1 - Its not a handful of people. Its more like the driving force. From activists right up to conservative leaders (the Palins of the world for one). Clearly you haven't been paying attention or are wearing blinders.

2 - Unofan already covered this, but I'm suspecting for you it bears repeating. Don't campaign to get govt out of healthcare if you're accepting govt healthcare. What part of that confuses you? If you don't like the govt being in health care, refuse the Medicare and go get your own insurance then. Basically the attitude is either 1) I'm glad I get to keep my healthcare, but screw the rest of you (the selfish generation referred to) or 2) I'm some wild eyed partisan idiot who never realized that the government ran Medicare in the first place.

3 - Talking is fine. Solutions are better. Tort reform has been the most talked about GOP approach to health care, and given their track record when in the majority on this issue (basically to ignore it) one can assume its pretty much their solution, unless you have some others. So, let have itmoe. What do conservatives support and how much roughly would it cost/save and who would it cover? Stop complaining and start offering up some alternatives.

4 - The funniest one of all. The Senate Finance Committee carried out months of negotiations, with the famous Gang of 6 in particular. For all that work, a grand total of 1 vote in committee and no votes in the full senate were received. In the meantime, the very negotiators supposedly in bipartisan fashion were sending out campaign fundraising literature saying how they were instrumental in delaying the bill in the hopes of running out the clock (Grassley, Enzi). Yup, good faith there. :rolleyes: Lastly, where is the GOP bill? Not each representatives bill, but their own version scored by the CBO that both their House and Senate delegations signed on for? That's right - it doesn't exist.
 
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction

Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction

walrus said:
Whats free about it? Haven't they been paying in for years?
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They paid for the then-retirees. The money my generation and others are paying now is going straight to them. Thanks to the demographic bubble that was obvious 30 years ago, the current system is not sustainable in its current form. However, the Selfish Generation doesn't care about that. They want their entitlement and as soon as possible, and whatever harm befalls everyone else thanks to said demographic bubble doesn't matter so long as they can get their health care paid for by others.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

MinnFan said:
Do you even know how insurance companies make their money? Its not off of premiums.
Click to expand...

LOL, too funny. How do they make money then? Seems to me I read somewhere that shared risk is how they make money and that pool of cash comes from premiums.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

ScoobyDoo said:
LOL, too funny. How do they make money then? Seems to me I read somewhere that shared risk is how they make money and that pool of cash comes from premiums.
Click to expand...

For a guy with all his knowledge, it really makes you wonder why MinnFan can't find a job. :eek:
 
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction

Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction

unofan said:
They paid for the then-retirees. The money my generation and others are paying now is going straight to them. Thanks to the demographic bubble that was obvious 30 years ago, the current system is not sustainable in its current form. However, the Selfish Generation doesn't care about that. They want their entitlement and as soon as possible, and whatever harm befalls everyone else thanks to said demographic bubble doesn't matter so long as they can get their health care paid for by others.
Click to expand...
Of course they don't care, they were told you pay in and you get this when you retire. Why is it their fault if this bubble was so obvious 30 years ago? They paid for others also
 
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction

Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction

Rover said:
1 - Its not a handful of people. Its more like the driving force. From activists right up to conservative leaders (the Palins of the world for one). Clearly you haven't been paying attention or are wearing blinders.

2 - Unofan already covered this, but I'm suspecting for you it bears repeating. Don't campaign to get govt out of healthcare if you're accepting govt healthcare. What part of that confuses you? If you don't like the govt being in health care, refuse the Medicare and go get your own insurance then. Basically the attitude is either 1) I'm glad I get to keep my healthcare, but screw the rest of you (the selfish generation referred to) or 2) I'm some wild eyed partisan idiot who never realized that the government ran Medicare in the first place.

3 - Talking is fine. Solutions are better. Tort reform has been the most talked about GOP approach to health care, and given their track record when in the majority on this issue (basically to ignore it) one can assume its pretty much their solution, unless you have some others. So, let have itmoe. What do conservatives support and how much roughly would it cost/save and who would it cover? Stop complaining and start offering up some alternatives.

4 - The funniest one of all. The Senate Finance Committee carried out months of negotiations, with the famous Gang of 6 in particular. For all that work, a grand total of 1 vote in committee and no votes in the full senate were received. In the meantime, the very negotiators supposedly in bipartisan fashion were sending out campaign fundraising literature saying how they were instrumental in delaying the bill in the hopes of running out the clock (Grassley, Enzi). Yup, good faith there. :rolleyes: Lastly, where is the GOP bill? Not each representatives bill, but their own version scored by the CBO that both their House and Senate delegations signed on for? That's right - it doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

1 - Stop listening to media talking points and actually talk to people in the real world. You might learn something.

2 - You obviously didn't read my response to you or to unofan. But nice attempt to make it look like I said something that I never said.

3 - Tort reform isn't the ONLY solution talked about, but you'd know that if you were paying attention and not wearing blinders. As for calling me out for the GOP doing nothing when they were in power, you do remember that I already called the GOP out for the same thing. I'm a conservative not a republican, there's a big difference.

4 - Yes, some of the GOP have been obstructionist, and I've called them on it in the past as well. But to suggest the GOP has even been allowed to negotiate is absurd. And besides, why would they spend a ton of time and money to write their own bill when they know full well it'll never even be considered let alone voted on?
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Anyone here ever watch the tv series Arrested Development? I have to say that Pelosi looks like, and reminds me of, Michael Bluth's mother.
 
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction

Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction

walrus said:
Of course they don't care, they were told you pay in and you get this when you retire. Why is it their fault if this bubble was so obvious 30 years ago? They paid for others also
Click to expand...

Yeah, and 30 years ago when they were entering their prime earning years they voted to decrease taxes and increase spending. Now 30 years later they want to have their cake and eat it too.

Also, they are basically telling my generation "you'll pay for us, and then you'll be bankrupt. Good luck waiting for us to die, you'll need it."
 
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Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction

Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction

moe24 said:
1 - Stop listening to media talking points and actually talk to people in the real world. You might learn something.

2 - You obviously didn't read my response to you or to unofan. But nice attempt to make it look like I said something that I never said.

3 - Tort reform isn't the ONLY solution talked about, but you'd know that if you were paying attention and not wearing blinders. As for calling me out for the GOP doing nothing when they were in power, you do remember that I already called the GOP out for the same thing. I'm a conservative not a republican, there's a big difference.

4 - Yes, some of the GOP have been obstructionist, and I've called them on it in the past as well. But to suggest the GOP has even been allowed to negotiate is absurd. And besides, why would they spend a ton of time and money to write their own bill when they know full well it'll never even be considered let alone voted on?
Click to expand...

1 - useless response from you. Moving on...

2 - I read your response and you look stupid. IF they don't like Medicare, and actually realize its a govt program, let them take private insurance then.

3 - And once again you completely glossed over the part you can't answer. What are the "other GOP solutions" and how much do they cost/save and who gets covered? What's so hard about answering this?

4 - So, Grassley, Enzi, and Snowe, 3 members of the Gang of 6 either don't exist or weren't Republicans at the time? By their own comments they were in a negotiation. :confused: Are we both living on the same planet here? You're starting to make MinnFan look down to earth.

Here's a thought: if they had such a better idea for reforming health care, why not put it together, get it scored, and then compare it side by side with the Dem bill? As a minority party, they've got time on their hands to put something together. Where is it? Why not have it at the ready to make their case and show what they'd do if in power? What a bunch of wusses.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

MinnFan said:
Do you even know how insurance companies make their money? Its not off of premiums.
Click to expand...

:confused:

Let's take a stab at this. Companies make money by having more money coming in then going out. The money coming in for insurance companies is in the form of premiums. Yet insurance companies don't make their money from premiums.

:confused:

OK then.

(Yes, I know it's more complicated then that, but the initial source of income is still from premiums.)
 
Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction

Re: CBO scores Dem bill - Trillion dollars in deficit reduction

Rover said:
1 - useless response from you. Moving on...

2 - I read your response and you look stupid. IF they don't like Medicare, and actually realize its a govt program, let them take private insurance then.

3 - And once again you completely glossed over the part you can't answer. What are the "other GOP solutions" and how much do they cost/save and who gets covered? What's so hard about answering this?

4 - So, Grassley, Enzi, and Snowe, 3 members of the Gang of 6 either don't exist or weren't Republicans at the time? By their own comments they were in a negotiation. :confused: Are we both living on the same planet here? You're starting to make MinnFan look down to earth.

Here's a thought: if they had such a better idea for reforming health care, why not put it together, get it scored, and then compare it side by side with the Dem bill? As a minority party, they've got time on their hands to put something together. Where is it? Why not have it at the ready to make their case and show what they'd do if in power? What a bunch of wusses.
Click to expand...

1 - In other words, ignorance is bliss. Moving on as well.

2 - You do realize they can't take other insurance because no one will sell someone eligible for medicare a full coverage policy. And you read my responses and obviously didn't comprehend them, and somehow I'm the stupid one. OK.

3 - We don't know because the Dems won't let them bring anything to the table.

4 - The Gang of 6 was not a negotiation, it was the Dems saying "let's make it look like we're playing with the other side, and then later we'll go off behind closed doors and do our own thing anyway".

And I never said the GOP had better ideas (conservatives on the other hand are full of better ideas, but there aren't many conservatives in the GOP).

At that I am done trying to have a conversation with you. It's like talking to a brick wall. See ya.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Right on moe - no more discussing with you until you post some solutions that you support.

Following up on the CBO estimate, here's some detail for our walking-upright-challenged-friends:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Pence's confused response to the CBO report


"Only in Washington," said Rep. Mike Pence, "can you spend a trillion dollars and say you’re gonna save the taxpayers' money.”

And only in Washington can such willful obtuseness be considered a professional attribute. You can believe that the savings in the Democratic plan will work as CBO thinks they will work, or you can disagree with that. But let's not pretend there's something complicated about the theory of spending money and saving money at the same time.

Let's say I own a graphics design firm. But all our computers are very old. A lot of time is wasted waiting for Adobe Photoshop to load and compute. So I decide to upgrade all of the computers. Costs a lot of money. But since my designers can now do more projects in a day, my firm is actually making more money. So yes, I can spend money and increase my bottom line at the same time. Investing in order to secure efficiencies is not a new concept.

The health-care example is a bit more complicated because the thing we are spending money on (coverage) is not the thing that's saving us money. But it's not that much more complicated. Let's say I want to hire new people at my graphics design firm. But first I need to make room in the budget. So I move our offices to a cheaper area of town, I stop providing free lunch for the staff, I raise prices slightly and I implement a variety of painful managerial changes that substantially streamline our operations. This not only pays for the new hires, but saves money above and beyond that.

No one would argue that these hypotheticals are impossible. Or, if they did, they would be out of touch with basic economic concepts to a truly unseemly degree. But that's what Pence is implying above. Presumably, he's just misleading his audience because it's easier to play to ignorance than to explain his actual critique of the bill. But that's not a good thing either.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Rover said:
Right on moe - no more discussing with you until you post some solutions that you support.

Following up on the CBO estimate, here's some detail for our walking-upright-challenged-friends:
Click to expand...

10 years of taxes for 6 years of bills... so what happens after those 10 years? Why isn't it deficit neutral now? Why pass a bill of this size and of this order with clear systemic flaws especially when such re-orderings are usually full of unclear systemic flaws?
 
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Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

MinnFan said:
Do you even know how insurance companies make their money? Its not off of premiums.
Click to expand...

No, its off investments. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Some of these companies might have fallen over during the troubles of 2008 if it had been worse. Health companies with arbitrage units... scary, scary, scary.
 
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