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Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

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Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

“The legislature, like the executive, has ceased, save indirectly, to be even the creature of the people: it is the creature, in the main, of pressure groups, and most of them, it must be manifest, are of dubious wisdom and even more dubious honesty. Laws are no longer made by a rational process of public discussion; they are made by a process of blackmail and intimidation, and they are executed in the same manner. The typical lawmaker of today is a man wholly devoid of principle – a mere counter in a grotesque and knavish game. If the right pressure could be applied to him he would be cheerfully in favor of polygamy, astrology or cannibalism."

H.L. Mencken writing in the American Mercury, May 1930
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

The AMA just threw its support behind the health care bill.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

ScoobyDoo said:
Why would they support something that's going to cause Doctor's to leave the profession? :confused:
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Because doctors aren't going to leave the profession?

Or the AMA just doesn't like doctors.

Oh, wait...
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Rover said:
Sacrasm aside, I still put the question to you. Where do you stand? Simply put, we don't live in a world where everything we'd like to see is going to end up in the bill. Here is the reality of the situation:

You either pass this specific bill, or you live with the system as it is for another generation. Its no more complicated than that. The idea that you "start over" is false. Starting over = nothing gets done. Either something happens now, or it doesn't for decades. Trying to prove your intellectual heft by pointing out this and that which you don't like is a wimpy cop out. I'm sure there are these great mythical solutions to the problem which everybody seems to have yet nobody puts forth. So, what are they, and what hope do they have of actually getting enacted. Politics is the art of the possible, not pie-in-the-sky dreaming. My position is clear. Not only is this better than the current situation, it puts in motion the ability to keep tinkering with health care to continually improve it. That's the real test.
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Sarcasm? What sarcasm? I cite a figure from a letter from an HR honcho at Caterpillar that was sent to the House leadership. But since I'm between meetings, I'll tell what I really don't like: I don't like the fact Obama basically sat on his *** for the first year of the debate and added no heft or influence to the process until recently; I don't like the fact this mess would be paid by an array of idiotic taxes whose revenue potential is dubious at best; (Tanning salons? How about taxing Girl Scout cookies next year?); I don't like the fact that nothing is being done to trim bloated entitlement programs like Medicare and Medicaid, instead of shifting the spending into another entitlement program; I don't like the fact the GOP and Dem leaderships are so ***** pathethic they do nothing but play to peoples' worst fears about the system, the bill, and everything else; and finally, I don't like the fact that there are no incentives for fatass smokers and other risky groups to take care of their own health. What I like is that maybe, some family that lacks coverage today may be able get care at some level outside of an ER. I've never been able to understand why a country like this would allow people to be denied basic care, all because they didn't have an insurance card. On the flip side, I'm not sure the bill's approach will be sustainable over time.

As a practical matter, I find the "let's get it done, no matter what it looks like" approach to be as intellectually dishonest and disgraceful as any clown talking about "death panels" or "socialism".
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Because they aren't going to leave the profession. We've already established that. The AMA endorsed the previous versions of health care reform going back when Obama first introduced it last year.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

ScottM said:
Sarcasm? What sarcasm? I cite a figure from a letter from an HR honcho at Caterpillar that was sent to the House leadership. But since I'm between meetings, I'll tell what I really don't like: I don't like the fact Obama basically sat on his *** for the first year of the debate and added no heft or influence to the process until recently; I don't like the fact this mess would be paid by an array of idiotic taxes whose revenue potential is dubious at best; (Tanning salons? How about taxing Girl Scout cookies next year?); I don't like the fact that nothing is being done to trim bloated entitlement programs like Medicare and Medicaid, instead of shifting the spending into another entitlement program; I don't like the fact the GOP and Dem leaderships are so ***** pathethic they do nothing but play to peoples' worst fears about the system, the bill, and everything else; and finally, I don't like the fact that there are no incentives for fatass smokers and other risky groups to take care of their own health. What I like is that maybe, some family that lacks coverage today may be able get care at some level outside of an ER. I've never been able to understand why a country like this would allow people to be denied basic care, all because they didn't have an insurance card. On the flip side, I'm not sure the bill's approach will be sustainable over time.

As a practical matter, I find the "let's get it done, no matter what it looks like" approach to be as intellectually dishonest and disgraceful as any clown talking about "death panels" or "socialism".
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Swell ScottM, but you never answered the main question. Do you support the current bill or the status quo?

Would it be nice if Obama got involved earlier? I guess so, although that's a bit vague as to what he'd be doing and if it would have helped. Regardless, as time travel has not been invented yet, its irrelevant to question at hand.

Would it be nice for a different funding mechanism? Maybe, but again, this is what could be passed (the politics of the possible) not what ScottM would have done if he ruled the world. The question remains, where do you stand on Dem bill vs status quo.

Incentives to punish smokers and fatasses? Can be dealt with separately after this bill is done. No need to go back to square on this issue.

My question is still outstanding to you, Colby, pirate, etc. Its one or the other at this point in time. I'm telling you where I'm at. I'm waiting for one of you to do the same.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Here's today's (of many) emails from the Obama campaign:
his is it: After months of hard work, the final vote on health reform in the House of Representatives is expected Sunday. It's a chance to make history and finally give Americans control over their own health care -- but it's shaping up to be incredibly close, and every member of Congress will play a critical role.

So we're aiming for 12 calls to Rep. Stupak from your area before offices close this evening. Whether you've called your representative before or haven't yet spoken out on health reform, it's now time to raise your voice.

Your representative, Rep. Bart Stupak, supported reform last fall, but has faced vicious attacks from insurance lobbyists desperate to block change. We must show that the voters back home still strongly support reform. Please call to say "we'll stand with you if you fight for health reform."

As an active constituent, your voice has particular weight with your representative -- so all those who share our commitment to reform are depending on you to speak up. According to our records, you live in Michigan's 1st congressional district.

Please call Rep. Stupak's office at (202) 225-4735 right now -- and then click here to let us know so we can track our progress.
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You guessed it. None of the people that have been telling me how to support or attack MY representative actually live in OUR district. It just p*sses them off to no end that there could be such stupid hicks left in the world. (although for the record, I have sometimes voted for Stupak's opponent and probably will again - but what business is that of "david plouff" who doesn't even live here?)
Now I know how Mass. residents felt a couple months ago.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Rover said:
The question remains, where do you stand on Dem bill vs status quo.
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And still the question remains: Are you really that thick-headed, or are you just being obtuse?
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Rover said:
Do you support the current bill or the status quo?
.
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I take it you believe that if this bill fails, there won't be enough political will to try to pass any kind of reform? I don't know anyone who wants to keep the status quo
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

geezer said:
Here's today's (of many) emails from the Obama campaign:

You guessed it. None of the people that have been telling me how to support or attack MY representative actually live in OUR district. It just p*sses them off to no end that there could be such stupid hicks left in the world. (although for the record, I have sometimes voted for Stupak's opponent and probably will again - but what business is that of "david plouff" who doesn't even live here?)
Now I know how Mass. residents felt a couple months ago.
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The people who send those emails all live in Washington DC (or the suburbs).
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Well here I am a supporter of health care reform. Given the choice though between this crap and the status quo, I choose the status quo.

Now Rover is going to go Glen Beck on me and say I know nothing of the bill and how I dont want 30 million Americans to get Health Care and how the CBO says it will save one quint-trillion dollars, but the fact of the matter is this bill is not the right answer. It is the wrong time, the wrong people and the wrong set up and the more the Dems brow beat people with this the more likely they are going to be bent over the next two cycles. Christ even bastions of liberalism like Rolling Stone think this is terrible but once again the Dems are falling all over themselves to screw everything up.

Unemployment is still in double digits, Wall Street is inflating new bubbles, banks aren't lending and more mortgages are failing...but hey lets ignore what really is worrying the people and ram through health care reform that really doesn't reform health care in the ways we were promised originally.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

walrus said:
I take it you believe that if this bill fails, there won't be enough political will to try to pass any kind of reform? I don't know anyone who wants to keep the status quo
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It took 16 years to bring it up again this time. What makes you think it won't take at least that long again?
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

walrus said:
I take it you believe that if this bill fails, there won't be enough political will to try to pass any kind of reform? I don't know anyone who wants to keep the status quo
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There was absolutely nothing even proposed during the six years the GOP held the White House and both houses of Congress. It has taken 2 years even with a Democratic majority in both houses and a Democratic president. Yes, if this bill fails I cannot see the political will to "start over" for another generation... So it's either reform now, or reform in 2030.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

ScoobyDoo said:
It took 16 years to bring it up again this time. What makes you think it won't take at least that long again?
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So that justifies putting though a bill that is a complete farce? If it is really this important shouldnt we get it right? Beyond the token "pre-existing conditions" portion what about this bill really works? Hell even the Dems can't agree it is a good plan.

I am telling you Obama and the Dems hitching their wagons to this is going to be the albatross that gets us 8 years of Palin.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

ScoobyDoo said:
It took 16 years to bring it up again this time. What makes you think it won't take at least that long again?
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I think a majority of voters want some kind of reform. I don't believe a majority want the present senate bill and I don't believe that means they want the status quo.

I read somewhere yesterday that a large part of the projected CBO savings of this bill was cleaning up fraud in medicare and caid, why can't that be cleaned without this bill? Would that take a huge amount of political will?
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Handyman said:
So that justifies putting though a bill that is a complete farce? If it is really this important shouldnt we get it right? Beyond the token "pre-existing conditions" portion what about this bill really works? Hell even the Dems can't agree it is a good plan.

I am telling you Obama and the Dems hitching their wagons to this is going to be the albatross that gets us 8 years of Palin.
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I'm not sure I understand the complete farce argument but that's your opinion. There are a couple things in this bill that are sorely needed and frankly Washington can't pass ANYTHING anymore that doesn't look like an ox took a **** on it.

So, it is what it is.

The Republicans (McConnell's) entire strategy since the Democrats took over is to delay delay delay obstruct obstruct obstruct. It's going to work.
 
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