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Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

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Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

LynahFan said:
25% increase over last year? What'd they sell this year - 5 instead of 4?.
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Yes, that's it Lynah. It was 5 cars instead of four. BTW - I didn't realize the House Minority Leader was posting as LynahFan. :eek::confused:
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

ScoobyDoo said:
No. It's the same catch-22 as health insurance. We let you out and then something catastrophic happens (God forbid) and you end up on public assistance.

We could go in circles all day on this. If you're going to have a social safety net you're going to have to have people paying into the system who don't use the social safety net.
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Then its not insurance. Its a tax.

ScoobyDoo said:
Or you're going to have the streets littered with homeless begging for food.
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Did we really have that before SS came about? Its a total Red Herring.

Its like the argument that people will be dying in the streets without all the health care mandates, but you look at a state like Idaho with 4 and they manage to live.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

MinnFan said:
It was sold as you paying a down payment for a future benefit. Not paying for someone else's benefit.

If it is truly insurance against not having enough money then people should (and would) be able to opt out and take the risk on their own.
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And as with health insurance, that's all fine and dandy in principle, but society isn't going to let you starve in the streets if you take the risk and lose the gamble.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

unofan said:
And as with health insurance, that's all fine and dandy in principle, but society isn't going to let you starve in the streets if you take the risk and lose the gamble.
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We need to get to a point where people think society will let it happen. That is why charity works much better. Limited resources so only the truly needy get help and it creates more of an incentive for people to be self-reliant.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

MinnFan said:
Then its not insurance. Its a tax.



Did we really have that before SS came about? Its a total Red Herring.

Its like the argument that people will be dying in the streets without all the health care mandates, but you look at a state like Idaho with 4 and they manage to live.
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Aaah yes, we're speaking in circles. You get down with your persecution complex. I'll consider it insurance for myself. You consider it a tax (as in the government is only taking it from you to screw you).

It all depends on who you want to believe. I believe it was enacted for the right reasons. You believe it was enacted to screw you over.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

ScoobyDoo said:
Aaah yes, we're speaking in circles. You get down with your persecution complex. I'll consider it insurance for myself. You consider it a tax (as in the government is only taking it from you to screw you).

It all depends on who you want to believe. I believe it was enacted for the right reasons. You believe it was enacted to screw you over.
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I believe it was enacted for noble reasons, but like anything else gov't touches it went bad. That is why the constitution didn't allow the federal gov't to do such things. It took FDR threatening the courst to go down this road.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

LynahFan said:
25% increase over last year? What'd they sell this year - 5 instead of 4? If you really want to hitch your wagon to "the bailouts will make the US automakers perennial powerhouses" argument, don't let me stop you. Just make sure you're using a quick-release harness...
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:D

More units. And who says business is complicated?
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Rover said:
So, Knucks' :cool:, remember when you all said the US was going to take a bath on the auto bailout and we should have lost those hundreds of thousands of jobs because they'd all go out of business?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/36133013

Thoughts? Comments? Confessions? :D
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GM got $50 billion in Federal Aid. Of that, $8 billion was in the form of a loan. Even assuming GM pays back that loan, that leaves the government (taxpayers) still $42 billion dollars in the hole on this deal, so I would say we took a bath.

http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/2010/02/report_gm_bankruptcy_likely_to.html
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Bill said:
GM got $50 billion in Federal Aid. Of that, $8 billion was in the form of a loan. Even assuming GM pays back that loan, that leaves the government (taxpayers) still $42 billion dollars in the hole on this deal, so I would say we took a bath.

http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/2010/02/report_gm_bankruptcy_likely_to.html
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You would say that if it was the final word, which it isn't. The gubmint still can sell the equity stake, much like they're now doing with Citigroup at a tidy profit. To do that the company needs to, you know, sell cars, something it appears to be doing right now (and can most likely capitalize on Toyota's quality woes).
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Rover said:
. To do that the company needs to, you know, sell cars, something it appears to be doing right now (and can most likely capitalize on Toyota's quality woes).
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Did they make a profit on those sales. Selling cars is great, are they giving them away or are they making money.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

walrus said:
Did they make a profit on those sales. Selling cars is great, are they giving them away or are they making money.
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They're giving cars away? Sweet. I'll take a free 'Vette.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

walrus said:
Did they make a profit on those sales. Selling cars is great, are they giving them away or are they making money.
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but they used a percentage to describe the change in units, that means it was an in-depth analysis. ;)
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

pirate said:
but they used a percentage to describe the change in units, that means it was an in-depth analysis. ;)
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I guessing they sold more units before the bailout and yet didn't make any money .
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Rover said:
You would say that if it was the final word, which it isn't. The gubmint still can sell the equity stake, much like they're now doing with Citigroup at a tidy profit. To do that the company needs to, you know, sell cars, something it appears to be doing right now (and can most likely capitalize on Toyota's quality woes).
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I don't recall seeing a time frame, but the government has said it didn't plan on holding on to it's equity stake in GM for very long. From the looks of these two GM stock charts, one leading into bankruptcy (2 year picture), and the other post bankruptcy, the government has been losing money on it's GM stake:

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=...=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=...=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined
 
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