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Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

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Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Bakunin said:
The cynical side of me (ok that's all of me) says that to some degree, the GOP is happy this passed - it gives them an easy issue to flog the Democrats with in the election cycle and brand them as socialists who are bankrupting the country. It doesn't matter that the GOP bankrupted us first because everybody has a short-term memory.
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The GOP screams "Socialism!!!!" about anything that could slightly inconvenience their special interest paymasters, so that's a wash -- the people who lap that up still will, nobody else will listen to the boy who cried wolf.

Even the most jaded probably realize that it's a Good Thing that the Dems may have (finally) learned to govern according to their promises and let the chips fall. The only positive for the country about the far right's 25-year stranglehold on conservative rhetoric and allegiance has been that their party lives by the maxim "better to die on your feet than live on your knees" -- whatever else you might say about the GOP (insular, fanatical, borderline psychotic), they do give one a clear choice.

The people screaming now screamed the same things about social security, medicare, the voting rights act, environmental protection, food and drug regulation. Bluffing is a pretty good strategy.
 
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Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Barry Goldwater:

"A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away."

"Now those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth, and let me remind you they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyranny."

"And here we encounter the seeds of government disaster and collapse -- the kind that wrecked ancient Rome and every other civilization that allowed a sociopolitical monster called the welfare state to exist."


Benjamin Franklin:

"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

A coworker sent me this:
Within the first year
• Young adults will be able stay on their parents' insurance until their 27th birthday.

• Seniors will get a $250 rebate to help fill the "doughnut hole" in Medicare prescription drug coverage, which falls between the $2,700 initial limit and when catastrophic coverage kicks in at $6,154.

• Insurers will be barred from imposing exclusions on children with pre-existing conditions. Pools will cover those with pre-existing health conditions until health care coverage exchanges are operational.

• Insurers will not be able to rescind policies to avoid paying medical bills when a person becomes ill.

• Lifetime limits on benefits and restrictive annual limits will be prohibited.

• New plans must provide coverage for preventive services without co-pays. All plans must comply by 2018.

• A temporary reinsurance program will help offset costs of coverage for companies that provide early retiree health benefits for those ages 55 to 64.

• New plans will be required to implement an appeals process for coverage determinations and claims.

• Adoption tax credit and assistance exclusion will increase by $1,000. The bill makes the credit refundable and extends it through 2011.

• A 10 percent tax will be imposed on amounts paid for indoor tanning services on or after July 1.

• Businesses with fewer than 50 employees will get tax credits covering 35 percent of their health care premiums, increasing to 50 percent by 2014.

2011
• Medicare will provide free annual wellness visits and personalized prevention plans. New plans will be required to cover preventive services with no co-pay.

• States can offer home- and community-based services to the disabled through Medicaid rather than institutional care beginning October 1.

• A 50 percent discount will be provided on brand-name drugs for Prescription Drug Plan or Medicare Advantage enrollees. Additional discounts on brand-name and generic drugs will be phased in to completely close the "doughnut hole" by 2020.

• Additional tax for health savings account withdrawals before age 65 for nonqualified medical expenses will increase from 10 percent to 20 percent. Additional tax for Archer medical savings account withdrawals not used for qualified medical expenses will increase from 15 percent to 20 percent.

• A plan to provide a vehicle for small businesses to offer tax-free benefits will be created. This would ease the small employer's administrative burden of sponsoring a cafeteria plan.

• The Medicare payroll tax will increase from 1.45 percent to 2.35 percent for individuals earning more than $200,000 and married filing jointly above $250,000.

2013
• Health plans must implement uniform standards for electronic exchange of health information to reduce paperwork and administrative costs.

• Contributions to flexible savings accounts will be limited to $2,500 per year, indexed by the Consumer Price Index in subsequent years.

• The Employer Medicare Part D subsidy deduction will be eliminated. Employers will lose the tax deduction for subsidizing prescription drug plans for Medicare Part D-eligible retirees.

• There will be increases to the income threshold from 7.5 percent to 10 percent of adjusted gross income. Those older than 65 can claim the 7.5 percent deduction through 2016.

• The hospital insurance tax will increase 0.9 percentage points for those earning more than $200,000 ($250,000 for married filing jointly), and it includes net investment income.

• A 2.9 percent excise tax on the first sale of medical devices will be established. Excepted are eyeglasses, contact lenses, hearing aids or other items for individual use.

2014
• Citizens will be required to have acceptable coverage or pay a penalty of $95 in 2014, $325 in 2015, $695 (or up to 2.5 percent of income) in 2016. Families will pay half the amount for children, up to a cap of $2,250 per family. After 2016, penalties are indexed to Consumer Price Index.

• Workers who are exempt from individual responsibility for coverage but don't qualify for tax credits can take their employer contribution and join an exchange plan.

• Companies with 50 or more employees must offer coverage to employees or pay a $2,000 penalty per employee after their first 30 if at least one of their employees receives a tax credit. Waiting periods before insurance takes effect is limited to 90 days. Employers who offer coverage but whose employees receive tax credits will pay $3,000 for each worker receiving a tax credit.

• Insurers can no longer refuse to sell or renew policies because of an individual's health status. Health plans can no longer exclude coverage for pre-existing conditions. Insurers can't charge higher rates because of heath status, gender or other factors.

• Health plans will be prohibited from imposing annual limits on coverage.

• Health insurance exchanges will open in each state to individuals and small employers to comparison shop for standardized health packages.

• Credits will be available through exchanges for those whose income is above Medicaid eligibility and below 400 percent of poverty level who are not eligible for or offered other acceptable coverage.

• Medicaid eligibility will increase to 133 percent of poverty for all nonelderly individuals to ensure that people obtain affordable health care in the most efficient and appropriate manner. States will receive increased federal funding to cover these new populations.

• An annual health insurance provider fee will be Imposed across the health insurance sector according to insurers' market share to companies whose total premiums exceed $25 million.

2018
• 2018 Taxing "Cadillac" plans: An excise tax will be imposed on high-cost, employer-provided health plans beyond $27,500 for family coverage and $10,200 for single coverage; it will increase to $30,950 for families and $11,850 for individuals, retirees and employees in high-risk professions.
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Discuss.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Nice try, Bob. However, the current conservative movement that dominates the national GOP is so-far removed from Goldwater in many respects they have no right to claim that mantle. The GOP used to be a party of ideas and ideals, not insults and rampant fear mongering.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

ScottM said:
Nice try, Bob. However, the current conservative movement that dominates the national GOP is so-far removed from Goldwater in many respects they have no right to claim that mantle. The GOP used to be a party of ideas and ideals, not insults and rampant fear mongering.
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Huh? If a Barry Goldwater quote or two fit the circumstance, which it does, how does criticism of the current GOP negate that? :confused:

I say if the shoe fits, wear it, even if it's rather old.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

dxmnkd316 said:
A coworker sent me this:

Discuss.
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There's no way a tax on indoor tanning is Constitutional. What are people going to do if they need to pay more for their fake bake???:eek:
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

A fairly terse evaluation of the Supremacy Clause argument. If there are any actual constitutional lawyers among us (no, Liberty University does not count), it would be interesting to hear from them re: the Court's traditional interpretations.

An SC v 10 death match is healthy every once in a while, even against the backdrop of the self-serving way politicians generally try to stoke up anger over it.
 
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Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Priceless said:
There's no way a tax on indoor tanning is Constitutional. What are people going to do if they need to pay more for their fake bake???:eek:
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What I find interesting is that there is a tax on tanning. Anyone else see where this is going?

This is a slippery slope. Why not an added tax on cigarettes? Why not on pop? Why not on McDonalds? I don't like it one bit.

I also very much dislike the excise tax on medical devices. Yes, let's lower medical costs by increasing taxes on them. Only congress could come up with logic like that.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Barry Goldwater:

“I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution or that have failed their purpose, or that impose on the people an unwarranted financial burden. I will not attempt to discover whether legislation is ``needed'' before I have first determined whether it is constitutionally permissible. And if I should later be attacked for neglecting my constituents "interests,'' I shall reply that I was informed that their main interest is liberty and that in that cause I am doing the very best I can.”
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

eaglehockeyrules said:
What I find truly revolting, is that the liberal left constantly denounces the traditions of God, worship and keeping religion/state as separate-segregated entities, yet Pelsoi [in order to get the votes she needed] on Friday says, "... St. Joseph would have wanted this health care bill." May she rot in hell.
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Name some of them, and what they said.

Methinks you're full of chit.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Bob Gray said:
Barry Goldwater:

“I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution or that have failed their purpose, or that impose on the people an unwarranted financial burden. I will not attempt to discover whether legislation is ``needed'' before I have first determined whether it is constitutionally permissible. And if I should later be attacked for neglecting my constituents "interests,'' I shall reply that I was informed that their main interest is liberty and that in that cause I am doing the very best I can.”
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Can you imagine how much better a place this country would be if we had even had an ounce of this between 2000 and 2006?

Steering straight right now just leaves us in the right wing ditch. A few more years of moving left will get us off the shoulder (still firmly in the right lane by international standards). The pressure to move left right now is commensurate with how hard the veer right was.

Many of the loudest voices against it are those who have feathered their nest for 20 years while the rest of the country stagnated due to their negligence. Now their party's over so suddenly it's a crisis. We're a little short of tears.
 
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Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Kepler said:
Can you imagine how much better a place this country would be if we had even had an ounce of this between 2000 and 2006?

Steering straight right now just leaves us in the right wing ditch. A few more years of moving left will get us off the shoulder (still firmly in the right lane by international standards). The pressure to move left right now is commensurate with how hard the veer right was.

Many of the loudest voices against it are those who have feathered their nest for 20 years while the rest of the country stagnated due to their negligence. Now their party's over so suddenly it's a crisis. We're a little short of tears.
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Between 2000 and 2006? Try more like between 1980 and 2010! When I was a kid, it was a common saying that two wrongs don't make a right. Dems and GOPers both bear plenty of blame over that time period. When the GOPers were in power, I blasted them for wasteful spending and huge deficits and poor decisions. I do the same now that it's the Dems. Plenty of blame to go both ways, but this particular time it's the Dems botching things, and in a massive way.
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

dxmnkd316 said:
What I find interesting is that there is a tax on tanning. Anyone else see where this is going?

This is a slippery slope. Why not an added tax on cigarettes? Why not on pop? Why not on McDonalds? I don't like it one bit.

I also very much dislike the excise tax on medical devices. Yes, let's lower medical costs by increasing taxes on them. Only congress could come up with logic like that.
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Not to quibble, but there are plenty of taxes on cigs due to health issues. The Big Tobacco Lawsuits brought those about.

And I think that if people want to live an unhealthy lifestyle by eating McDonald's there should be a tax on it. As someone who smokes off and on I dont whine about paying the tax, it is my choice to live that way.

This country would be great if there was strong leadership for both conservatives and liberals. Problem is, as we all know power corrupts. It is easy to be a conservative when you dont have control of the agenda...same with being a liberal. Once you have your hands on the wheel of the corvette though who wants to drive the speed limit?
 
Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

ScottM said:
And that's part of the problem the states will face. The feds have enormous discretion to tax whomever, however and whatever they want, and the federal courts tend to defer to them. If they had delegated the duty to impose a penalty to HHS or DoL, I think one could make a stronger case for the feds overstepping their bounds.

Moreover, the fact the individual mandate doesn't kick in for a few years creates the problem now that nobody's "rights" were violated or the feds overstepped. I think the larger issue is the commerce clause butting heads with the 10th Amendment, and those clashes could have unintended consequences for states on other levels too.
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To tax, absolutely. The hurdle they'll face is mandating the purchase of services from the private sector....which (to one of your points) they'll toss under the commerce clause, of course - much like everything else that doesn't fall under the constitutional powers of Congress.

To your other point of "future" rights being violated - can they use an injunction to prohibit all or part of the legislation kicking in?



Handyman said:
There is lots of things the Government "forces" me to do under threat of penalty...

I am going to have a few years to figure out how I am going to deal with being "forced" to buy health insurance so I am not worried as of yet, even though I think overall it is BS. The fact is though the Government makes us do things all the time, lets not pretend this is the first.
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dropthatpuck said:
Name another instance where the federal government forces you to purchase a product from a private company.

It's unconstitutional - which is why when it hits the SCOTUS, it will be labeled as such.
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Time.

Didn't think so.
 
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