Notre Dame going Independent?

[4four4]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

Recruiting that comes heavily from Chicago and westward, size of conference/ability to schedule OOC games, past relationship...

Correct me if I am wrong but since when does Notre Dame have all these hockey recruits from Chicago you mention?

 

[4four4]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

http://littlebighornproject.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/lak2.jpg

In college I had three floor mates from Pine Ridge on it. I don't believe they made it past their Sophmore year. Nice guys and loved Olde English 40's.

 

[Jeff_Jackson_for_Pres.]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

Correct me if I am wrong but since when does Notre Dame have all these hockey recruits from Chicago you mention?

I said "Chicago and westward." Chicago is my line of demarcation. But, since you asked... ND has had about 7% of their players come from the Chicago area. More than half of their players have come from Chicago and westward.

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

Or it could be that Fighting Irish is a moniker of a people applied by those very same people and Fighting Sioux is a moniker applied by a group of people who not long before had been subjugating and repressing that namesake. But hey ... the North Dakotan's did actually acknowledge that the Sioux were "warrior-like and of fine bearing" during their attempt to outname their Bison rivals. How many Irish still living in fetid stinking refugee camps?

So yeah, there is a huge difference.

Well said. It's simply astounding to me how many lame brains continue to correlate the historicity of the Fighting Irish moniker with the present debacle with UND.

What also boggles the mind is this classic piece of legislation, overwhelmingly passed by the House and Senate of the North Dakota legislature and signed by the honorable Governor Dalrymple, which flies in the face of local Native American disapproval, contravenes the obligations of the Board of Education/NCAA lawsuit settlement of 2007 calling for removal of the nickname and is therefore unconstitutional in violation of Article I, Section 18 of the North Dakota State Constitution which states: "No ... law impairing the obligations of contracts shall ever be passed", and the coup de gras is these clowns had the audacity to provide judicial authority to the attorney general to file an antitrust suit against the NCAA should they refuse to change their ruling. And the kicker is all of this was supported by thousands of emails from UND fans. This is by far a classic example of UND fandom...gone stupid.

This is no doubt one of most irresponsible and self centered acts of legislation ever conceived by a state government! And the silence from the general public regarding the unconstitutionality of the thing is dumbfounding. I guess this proves how dumb UND fans can really be and still breathe. Well, there you have it North Dakota residents and UND fans...shine on!

My understanding is this little one day superfluous excursion to Indianapolis is costing North Dakota taxpayers $6000.00!!?? For what may I ask?? How much IS a flight from GF to Indy, a couple car rentals and hotel rooms for 5 people? It's not $6000, not even close. Maybe the honorable Governor tends to eat too much when he's about to be pickled.

I can just see it now, the North Dakota neocons eat crow on Friday, August 12, and UND gets slapped with NCAA sanctions on Monday, August 15 (assuming no extension is granted by the NCAA). On the same day, Jack Swarbrick, Notre Dame AD, stands up in the CCHA Conference meetings in Dearborn, Michigan and says, "We've decided to join the NCHC, despite UND's violation of the NCAA ruling banning the use of the nickname and imposed post season sanctions". Right. This should be interesting...

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

Well said. It's simply astounding to me how many lame brains continue to correlate the historicity of the Fighting Irish moniker with the present debacle with UND.

What also boggles the mind is this classic piece of legislation, overwhelmingly passed by the House and Senate of the North Dakota legislature and signed by the honorable Governor Dalrymple, which flies in the face of local Native American disapproval, contravenes the obligations of the Board of Education/NCAA lawsuit settlement of 2007 calling for removal of the nickname and is therefore unconstitutional in violation of Article I, Section 18 of the North Dakota State Constitution which states: "No ... law impairing the obligations of contracts shall ever be passed", and the coup de gras is these clowns had the audacity to provide judicial authority to the attorney general to file an antitrust suit against the NCAA should they refuse to change their ruling. And the kicker is all of this was supported by thousands of emails from UND fans. This is by far a classic example of UND fandom...gone stupid.

This is no doubt one of most irresponsible and self centered acts of legislation ever conceived by a state government! And the silence from the general public regarding the unconstitutionality of the thing is dumbfounding. I guess this proves how dumb UND fans can really be and still breathe. Well, there you have it North Dakota residents and UND fans...shine on!

My understanding is this little one day superfluous excursion to Indianapolis is costing North Dakota taxpayers $6000.00!!?? For what may I ask?? How much IS a flight from GF to Indy, a couple car rentals and hotel rooms for 5 people? It's not $6000, not even close. Maybe the honorable Governor tends to eat too much when he's about to be pickled.

I can just see it now, the North Dakota neocons eat crow on Friday, August 12, and UND gets slapped with NCAA sanctions on Monday, August 15 (assuming no extension is granted by the NCAA). On the same day, Jack Swarbrick, Notre Dame AD, stands up in the CCHA Conference meetings in Dearborn, Michigan and says, "We've decided to join the NCHC, despite UND's violation of the NCAA ruling banning the use of the nickname and imposed post season sanctions". Right. This should be interesting...

$6000 is nothing. The North Dakota government has so much money right now they can't figure out how to spend it.

They know the NCAA is not going to change their minds, but they feel they owe it to the University of North Dakota, and more particularily, the alumni who feel strongly about the name, to take every step possible to try to save it. But I can tell you that the vast majority of North Dakota residents, and UND fans in particular, understand that boat has already sailed.

So what do you think is going to happen August 15? The NCAA Board of Governors will convene, a lightning bolt from their headquarters will strike UND, smiting your enemies to the West? Good luck with that.

The "sanctions" you so eagerly hope will be leveled like a thunderbolt upon us are that we can't host any NCAA events, and we won't be able to use the name or wear uniforms or equipment bearing the name in NCAA events.

So what exactly are we going to be hosting between now and November?

Notre Dame is most likely headed to Hockey East. I know that you would like to connect this decision, the collapsing stock market, the London fires and starvation in Africa, to the UND nickname issue. I suspect Notre Dame is barely aware that we even exist, let alone that we are in a nickname fight with the NCAA. Their decision will be all about the cash.

How many Irish still living in fetid stinking refugee camps?

Obviously, you did not make it to St. Paul for the WCHA Final Five this year. That smell Thursday night was not good.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

Oh, and by the way Harley, the reason we North Dakotans aren't all wound up about the unconstitutional "impairment of contracts" issue that bothers you so much is that we understand that the law passed by the Legislature will never be enforced against UND. What, you think the attorney general or the Grand Forks County State's Attorney is going to prosecute someone from UND when they change the name? There is naive, and then there's....

The reason the law will never be enforced is that we understand it has nothing to do with impairment of contracts and everything to do with that fact that the Board of Higher Education, in North Dakota, is a separately established Consitutional entity, with sole authority to govern the conduct of the University of North Dakota, beyond the setting of appropriations by the Legislature. I can assure you no one at UND is truly worried that the nickname law is going to be used to prosecute or sue anyone at UND or on the Board of Higher Ed.

 

[darker98]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

http://littlebighornproject.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/lak2.jpg

Sad, but in North Dakota there are no refugee camps.

 

[diddlypoo]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

Notre Dame is most likely headed to Hockey East. I know that you would like to connect this decision, the collapsing stock market, the London fires and starvation in Africa, to the UND nickname issue. I suspect Notre Dame is barely aware that we even exist, let alone that we are in a nickname fight with the NCAA. Their decision will be all about the cash.

You'd have to be a "knucklescraper" or "dumb" not to agree 100% with this statement.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

Sad, but in North Dakota there are no refugee camps.

Cos in North Dakota the American Indian population is fully integrated into mainstream society? YOU might call the reservations and they may not contain the squalor as seen in that video ... however, they are still refugee camps.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

Cos in North Dakota the American Indian population is fully integrated into mainstream society? YOU might call the reservations and they may not contain the squalor as seen in that video ... however, they are still refugee camps.

So the Federal system of reservations was caused by North Dakota?

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

With all due apologies to Shakespeare,

North Dakota by any other name will still work your favorite college hockey team up and down the ice like the little biotches they are.

That is all.

 

[IrishHockeyFan]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

While no one at Notre Dame is saying anything on the record just yet, I think this post from Craig P. from a while back is pretty interesting:

I think there's at least a chance that the BTHC forms more or less as is (six teams, lots of non-conference games against their former conference mates, at least at the outset), then ND and Miami team up with the top end of the remainder of the WCHA to make a new major western conference, with the Michigan schools (and BGSU if they survive) and bottom end of the WCHA going into some sort of a mid-major conference, possibly lower-budget like AHA.

I wouldn't necessarily say it's the likely outcome, but I think it's within the realm of possibility.

I wonder if he recalls his prescience on the matter, and I wonder if this was the earliest anyone posited the NCHC as a possibility? If Notre Dame indeed goes west to play, he'll have nailed that exactly. If not, still a pretty impressive display of intelligent speculation, including the idea of a WCHA/CCHA merger with their remaining teams, an idea that has been reported as being discussed.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

So the Federal system of reservations was caused by North Dakota?

Did I say that? NO. For someone that makes money communicating with words you'd think it would be possible to engage in genuine discussion without a blatantly disingenuous restating of someone else's points. More than just shame on you for that ... I actually used to think you weren't some worthless hack. But you are.

 

[darker98]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

Cos in North Dakota the American Indian population is fully integrated into mainstream society? YOU might call the reservations and they may not contain the squalor as seen in that video ... however, they are still refugee camps.

Reservations were land given back to the Natives for what was stolen from them. They can govern themselves and are not subject to North Dakota government. Natives are free to come and go as they please. It's not the Mexican border where we keep the people out of our State land. I was just at Spirit Lake 2 months ago and it's a nice place. No, I wasn't there to gamble at a Casino.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

While no one at Notre Dame is saying anything on the record just yet, I think this post from Craig P. from a while back is pretty interesting:

If not, still a pretty impressive display of intelligent speculation, including the idea of a WCHA/CCHA merger with their remaining teams, an idea that has been reported as being discussed.

I don't see Craigs speculation about the National taking in ND and the 'top teams of the WCHA'. If they were thinking about an invite, why wouldn't the National have just taken more of the WCHA to begin with? No. They've got an offer to ND (and maybe their sidekick WMU)...the only other move I see is the possibility of an extension to SCSU.

$6000 is nothing. The North Dakota government has so much money right now they can't figure out how to spend it.

They know the NCAA is not going to change their minds, but they feel they owe it to the University of North Dakota, and more particularily, the alumni who feel strongly about the name, to take every step possible to try to save it.

I don't think the NCAA 'owes' it to the UND alumn to try to keep the name. Here's an issue that's black or white. It either breaks the intentions of laws and/or policies or not. If it does, there's no 'we can kinda make this work'.

And in the end, its now beyond the NCAA. Based on what I've seen, major nearby schools will not play them and the Big Sky is telling UND its a deal breaker. It may be interesting to talk about...but its pretty much past the discussion phase and the momentum is waay past the NCAA.

 

[IrishHockeyFan]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

I don't see Craigs speculation about the National taking in ND and the 'top teams of the WCHA'. If they were thinking about an invite, why wouldn't the National have just taken more of the WCHA to begin with? No. They've got an offer to ND (and maybe their sidekick WMU)...the only other move I see is the possibility of an extension to SCSU.

I'm not sure what you're not seeing. Craig posted -- months before the Big 10 made an official announcement and apparently well before any word of the NCHC even was mentioned anywhere -- pretty much exactly what happened. Miami broke away from the CCHA and joined with "top end of the remainder of the WCHA." No offense to any school, but I think I consider the 5 schools leaving the WCHA to form up the NCHC with Miami to be their "top end teams." The defending NCAA champ, a championship program in Denver, arguably the top NCAA hockey program of all time at UND, a consistent winner in CC and a program at UNO that seems to be moving in the right direction and that will either play in a new on campus facility in the future or continue to play in the 14,000 seat state of the art building that they currently occupy. The only thing we're not sure about is Notre Dame's inclusion. What he speculated about is almost exactly what has happened. And there is a 50/50 chance he will have nailed it precisely if Notre Dame joins up with the NCHC.

 

[giwan]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

I don't see Craigs speculation about the National taking in ND and the 'top teams of the WCHA'. If they were thinking about an invite, why wouldn't the National have just taken more of the WCHA to begin with? No. They've got an offer to ND (and maybe their sidekick WMU)...the only other move I see is the possibility of an extension to SCSU.

I just don't get this WMU sidekick thing. Just why do so many people see these two as a pair of Siamese twins. WMU has been relevant on the hockey scene for how long? I can see ND because of name recognition but WMU? I see it from a closer trip, it is a growing population in that part of MI, there's money there, not sure how big the WMU budget is but must be decent. Their attempt of branding their W just looks like an odd WI - W.

 

[IrishHockeyFan]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

I just don't get this WMU sidekick thing. Just why do so many people see these two as a pair of Siamese twins. WMU has been relevant on the hockey scene for how long? I can see ND because of name recognition but WMU? I see it from a closer trip, it is a growing population in that part of MI, there's money there, not sure how big the WMU budget is but must be decent. Their attempt of branding their W just looks like an odd WI - W.

Like a lot of the speculation regarding Notre Dame has at least something to do with an off-hand remark about independence an ND Assistant AD made to the press, I believe there are quotes attributable to the WMU president that say Western is interested in going whichever way Notre Dame goes. People run with mere rumors. A on the record quote and they'll run all the way to the moon As for relevance to the hockey scene, Notre Dame may be the (much) bigger brand name as far as NCAA athletics go, but neither team has really been relevant as a hockey program for all that long. They've made a few trips to the NCAAs, we've made a few.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

I'm not sure what you're not seeing. Craig posted -- months before the Big 10 made an official announcement and apparently well before any word of the NCHC even was mentioned anywhere -- pretty much exactly what happened.

No disrespect intended. Context helps. A while ago could mean 3 days and it could mean 3 years. If it was April, that's pretty good.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

I just don't get this WMU sidekick thing. Just why do so many people see these two as a pair of Siamese twins. WMU has been relevant on the hockey scene for how long? I can see ND because of name recognition but WMU? I see it from a closer trip, it is a growing population in that part of MI, there's money there, not sure how big the WMU budget is but must be decent. Their attempt of branding their W just looks like an odd WI - W.

No offense intended again. But folks don't see these two as siamese twins. That's the point.

Notre Dame is a school with a reputation at the top of division 1, which although in some places is nothing to shout about in hockey...they still have one of the nations top sports program.

For many WMU is interchangable with Ferris State or Bowling Green. Its one a handful of lower Michigan schools...and my guess is that they wouldn't have an invite to the national, hockey east nor the future wcha without Notre Dame (and may not even with Notre Dame). I'm guessing that's where that's coming from.