Notre Dame going Independent?

[alfablue]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

My hunch is exactly the opposite. They have virtually nothing in common with the NCHC teams and a lot in common with HE. I will be very, very surprised if they don't choose the HE route.

I'm on board with this one.

Here's the thing- you guys seem to think that the TV contracts are all about actual viewers, as opposed to potential viewers. This isn't about reality, but the potential of reality. BTCH is far, far more about the fact that so many homes have BTN- and that people include that in the price of their cable. For most of these cable channels, actual revenue for a specific show is almsot irrelevant- look at the commercials they have, and note how many get superceded by local commercials- they are almost irrelevant.

So, if you were a negotiator for TV contracts, not knowing much about college hockey, which would be an easier sale- Notre Dame vs. ANY of the NCHC (actually, I'll go out on a limb and say ALL) or Notre Dame vs Boston College? Precpetion wise, that's super easy, and a far easier monetery sell. And if ND can convince UConn to do *something* about hockey, and include another east coast connection. AND have an annual Army-ND game.

The closest connection to Notre Dame in the NCHC is Miami, and that's just because they play football, and I know that because they show the score on the ticker- Miami (OH) (thinking in the realm of a sports exec.).

No offense to the NCHC, but Miami is the biggest sports school of them all, by a wide margin. That's how important football is. These guys got together as they all agreed that investing in Hockey will make more money, and IMHO, they brought Miami in just because of their recognition.

This reorg isn't all about hockey, it's about money. Money starts with football, then gets traced to basketball, and from there, it's about name recognition. Preception is driving all the money- indeed, over the long term, reality may prevail, but for the next 5 years, it's all about preception.

And on that note, I hoestly believe that Notre Dame CAN make it work as an independant. It's not as if they are getting into the NCAA by winning their conference on a regular basis. IIRC, they've qualified exactly ONCE based on that. Joining the NCHC or even Hockey East does not change anything. If they keep playing good hockey, and include good teams often enough, they will still be in the tournament. And the good teams is quite easy if they are independant. As well as including Notre Dame traditional rivals like Michigan, Michigan State, Boston College, Army, and UConn. Heck, they'd play USC if there were a hockey rink in LA.

So, it's either independant or Hockey East.

 

[SanTropez]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

But in the event HE says "thanks but no thanks,"

I think it was brought up in one of the many new threads on this same subject, but it's hard to keep up, I believe HE has already said they would welcome Notre Dame if they wanted to join.

 

[Sean Pickett]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

If Notre Dame Was to begin play at the start of the league would they be considered a founding member or just the original 6 get that designation?

Maine and Lowell (now UMass Lowell) joined Hockey East before it started play, but they are not considered founding members.

Sean

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

I am kind of curious why you think the UND Fighting Sioux name issue is going to be a problem long term? I know you've posted about it numerous times.

This is what I believe, and what I think most people in North Dakota believe, will happen.

North Dakota officials will meet with the NCAA in one last effort (futile in my mind) to get them to change their minds. When that is unsuccessful, the North Dakota legislature, at it's fall special session that is already planned, will repeal the law that questionably tied the hands of the Board of Higher Education, and the issue will go away. North Dakota will go without a nickname this year for sure, with a decision on a future nickname to be made much later.

I don't think the issue needs to be long term at all and if you had been reading carefully what I wrote in previous posts regarding a potential scenario in this mess, it is basically what you just stated. However, the important element is what approach will the ND contingent (Gov., AG, Minority leader Carlson, Kelley, etc.) take when attending the meeting this Friday? All reports indicate that Carlson, who sponsored the legislation, believes the NCAA will change their mind and intends to present his case accordingly with the backing of the AG. IMO that's an accident waiting to happen. Please tell me Carlson, who intends to run for the US House, is joking? At this point the NCAA is most likely fed up with bonehead ND politics of this nature and UND's prolonged adamant resistance to their call to retire the name. Coming into a meeting with guns blazing under those circumstances is as wrong as the governor signing this unconstitutional law in the first place. I would add that the missing piece in your scenario is will the NCAA impose sanctions on August 15 or grant an extension until a special legislative session is called in November to repeal the law?

I would hope the group falls on the mercy of the NCAA and appeals for an extension...or UND will suffer sanctions (unless they violate state law and remove the nickname) and that does not reflect well on the eve of Notre Dame's decision to possibly move to the NCHC. That was the point of my post here. As I said in a previous post, I would be surprised if the NCAA grants an extension to these clowns simply because the NCAA attorneys already fully understand that the knuckledraggers in the ND legislature created the law because they were OFFENDED by the NCAA's threat of sanctions and sought to challenge the ruling by creating their own threat of filing an antitrust against the NCAA and all that on unconstitutional grounds to boot (well documented)! What a friggin' circus! My take is UND will not violate state law, keep the nickname until Nov. at which time the legislature will recant and repeal the dumb thing and then UND will retire the nickname. In the meantime, UND will be the brunt of scorn by the media and others while waiting for this mess to hopefully all go away. I really hope I'm wrong and they get the extension. UN.BE.LIEVE.A.BLE.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

And on that note, I hoestly believe that Notre Dame CAN make it work as an independant. It's not as if they are getting into the NCAA by winning their conference on a regular basis. IIRC, they've qualified exactly ONCE based on that.

ND has won the CCHA tournament twice, but in both instances, the Irish won the regular season title as well and would have easily qualified for an at-large bid, as they ended up with a #1 seed playing in Grand Rapids. The other three times ND has been in the NCAA tournament, including both Frozen Four appearances, it's via an at-large bid. The '07-'08 team was the last team into the tournament, and I'm not sure if the conference tournament helped or hurt them (famously, if they had tied the third-place game rather than losing it, they would have been out of the NCAA tournament).

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

Michigan State is having a great deal of trouble filling the seats at Munn unless 2000 Michigan fans show up. It takes about 8 average games at Value City arena against opponents not calling Ann Arbor or South Bend home to attract enough fans to fill that place ONCE to capacity. Penn State is a football first, second, and last campus that will have an AD quite anxious to assure a few full houses by attracting a brand name non-conference opponent to the upcoming Pegula Palace, and Notre Dame is extremely popular in Pennsylvania, with their football radio broadcast carried by more stations in PA than in any other state, including here in Indiana. What makes you think Jim Delany will convince any of these schools it's in their best interest to ignore a good day at the gate to chase something that is not going to happen?

Notre Dame will drop hockey as a varsity sport before they join the Big 10. And I'm guessing dropping hockey isn't very likely. Much like I noted in an earlier post about no one thinking long-term any longer, all of these schools (including Notre Dame), conference affiliation or not, think first of their own best and narrow interests. I just don't see any logical scenario where Big Ten hockey teams would be "encouraged" by the league office to avoid Notre Dame.

Not saying ignore them, but as has been mentioned already in this thread, Minnesota won't have room to schedule Notre Dame every season.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

ND has won the CCHA tournament twice, but in both instances, the Irish won the regular season title as well and would have easily qualified for an at-large bid, as they ended up with a #1 seed playing in Grand Rapids. The other three times ND has been in the NCAA tournament, including both Frozen Four appearances, it's via an at-large bid. The '07-'08 team was the last team into the tournament, and I'm not sure if the conference tournament helped or hurt them (famously, if they had tied the third-place game rather than losing it, they would have been out of the NCAA tournament).

one, two- eh- I'm only 50% low. Or is that 100% low....

Still, now that ND is good, as long as they keep playing good hockey, and they WILL attract good schools to play, they will get a place in the tournament. Of all the teams out there, they are one that CAN be independat, and get away with it.

 

[darker98]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

Maine and Lowell (now UMass Lowell) join Hockey East before it started play, but they are not considered founding members.

Sean

Thanks!

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

Not saying ignore them, but as has been mentioned already in this thread, Minnesota won't have room to schedule Notre Dame every season.

Wisconsin and Minnesota both, would be my guess. Notre Dame has played neither team much at all since leaving the WCHA 30 years ago. But I would be completely shocked if both MSU and UM aren't on the schedule regularly once the BTHC starts play. And I can almost guarantee Penn State will be on the docket every season as well, perhaps even home and home series in the same season on occasion. For PSU that's a no-brainer. As IHF noted in an earlier post, Notre Dame has a pretty big following throughout PA. Living there in 2000-2001 I was really surprised at how many ND fans I came across. More than anywhere else except northern Indiana and southwestern Michigan. Made no sense to me, but was told by the locals it had to do with PA having such a large Catholic population and is one of the oldest states in the Union. A lot of people in the previous generations grew up with Notre Dame football on the radio.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

Wisconsin and Minnesota both, would be my guess. Notre Dame has played neither team much at all since leaving the WCHA 30 years ago. But I would be completely shocked if both MSU and UM aren't on the schedule regularly once the BTHC starts play. And I can almost guarantee Penn State will be on the docket every season as well, perhaps even home and home series in the same season on occasion. For PSU that's a no-brainer. As IHF noted in an earlier post, Notre Dame has a pretty big following throughout PA. Living there in 2000-2001 I was really surprised at how many ND fans I came across. More than anywhere else except northern Indiana and southwestern Michigan. Made no sense to me, but was told by the locals it had to do with PA having such a large Catholic population and is one of the oldest states in the Union. A lot of people in the previous generations grew up with Notre Dame football on the radio.

Yep, I agree. And Don Lucia has already come out and said that the Gophers are planning on regularly scheduling games with the other Minnesota Schools and they are possibly planning to have an All-Minnesota tournament.

http://www.sctimes.com/article/2011.../College-hockey-Gophers-want-play-state-teams

If they do this, between their conference games, the Mariucci Classic, the possible new tournament, and non-conference games with the other MN schools, they won't have many non-conference games left available. I can see them playing Notre Dame, but not on a yearly basis IMHO.

 

[Skeeterman]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

Does the Pope know about these plans?

 

[MUhawks628]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

Does the Pope know about these plans?

An envoy was sent from South Bend by way of the secret tunnel beneath the White House.

 

[redhawk95]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

The last thing Catholics want to do is offend an ethnic group.

Right, because everyone knows Fighting IRISH is so way less offensive than Fighting SIOUX. Frankly, I don't see the difference.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

Right, because everyone knows Fighting IRISH is so way less offensive than Fighting SIOUX. Frankly, I don't see the difference.

There is a huge difference: the Irish don't have a bunch of PC idiots who make a living being outraged on their behalf regardless of whether such outrage is desired or warranted.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

There is a huge difference: the Irish don't have a bunch of PC idiots who make a living being outraged on their behalf regardless of whether such outrage is desired or warranted.

Or it could be that Fighting Irish is a moniker of a people applied by those very same people and Fighting Sioux is a moniker applied by a group of people who not long before had been subjugating and repressing that namesake. But hey ... the North Dakotan's did actually acknowledge that the Sioux were "warrior-like and of fine bearing" during their attempt to outname their Bison rivals. How many Irish still living in fetid stinking refugee camps?

So yeah, there is a huge difference.

 

[darker98]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

Or it could be that Fighting Irish is a moniker of a people applied by those very same people and Fighting Sioux is a moniker applied by a group of people who not long before had been subjugating and repressing that namesake. But hey ... the North Dakotan's did actually acknowledge that the Sioux were "warrior-like and of fine bearing" during their attempte to outname their Bison rival up the road. How many Irish still living in fetid stinking refugee camps?

So yeah, there is a huge difference.

I'm hoping that Neither the Irish nor Sioux people live in refugee camps.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

I'm hoping that Neither the Irish nor Sioux people live in refugee camps.

http://littlebighornproject.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/lak2.jpg

 

[Jeff_Jackson_for_Pres.]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

Why do you think that is? Do you think it's because most Notre Dame fans want the team to choose the NCHC, or is there some other reason?

Recruiting that comes heavily from Chicago and westward, size of conference/ability to schedule OOC games, past relationship...

...They have virtually nothing in common with the NCHC teams...

And Miami does? Miami is D1 in all sports, their roster is virtually filled from east of Lake Michigan and they've never been a part of the WCHA. ND has the Big East in Bball and the Pope in common with some HE schools. Catholics may be as thick as thieves, but this is hockey. Not Mass.

 

[Split-N]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

And Miami does? Miami is D1 in all sports, their roster is virtually filled from east of Lake Michigan and they've never been a part of the WCHA. ND has the Big East in Bball and the Pope in common with some HE schools. Catholics may be as thick as thieves, but this is hockey. Not Mass.

Just my .02 but my guess is that Miami will rue the day it ever cast its lot with the NCHC and will be looking for a new home within five years.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

Just my .02 but my guess is that Miami will rue the day it ever cast its lot with the NCHC and will be looking for a new home within five years.

Yep, I think they're gambling big that Norte Dame goes with the NCHA, and without them, I'm not sure I can really see Miami putting up the lousy travel its going to have in the NCHA. Almost all of the games they'll have are going to involve a bus ride to the airport in Cincinnati.