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Notre Dame going Independent?

NDgolden said:
Notre Dames very success over the last 5 years mirrors the Gophers continuing slide. Perhaps the two have switched places. With a new hockey arena, A Notre Dame education, Why would a smart hockey player choose MN over ND? I forgot MN is the place where the top future NHL'ers make a quick pit stop. How many years will it take for MN to be considered an average D-1 hockey program? MN is more than welcome to remind ND what a good program is in January......
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Switched places? EVERY program goes through downturns. In the last 5 years, Notre Dame has had more success, but they are nowhere in the vicinity of Minnesota in terms of history, tradition, or program success.

The Gophers had a very similar downturn in the early 70's, then went on to win 3 NCAA titles in six years. With the recruiting access they have, the Gophers are always a class away from being legit contenders.
 
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Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

JDUBBS1280 said:
Switched places? EVERY program goes through downturns. In the last 5 years, Notre Dame has had more success, but they are nowhere in the vicinity of Minnesota in terms of history, tradition, or program success.

The Gophers had a very similar downturn in the early 70's, then went on to win 3 NCAA titles in six years. With the recruiting access they have, the Gophers are always a class away from being legit contenders.
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Over reading the obvious sarcasm in the original comment. The original vibe was that ND was not yet considered a "good" D-1 hockey program. It is agreed that a 5 yr run of success does not equate the history of success MN has had. But to equate ND as not there yet to be considered "good" is equally farce. Considering Jackson and Co could recruit a class to play in the Joyce Center is a miracle in itself. To consider now the new arena, ND education, and the highly respected coaching abilities of Jackson, it seems ND should be a "good" D-1 program. One can only look at the current make-up of this team and realize they will be a top program for the next many years.
 
NDgolden said:
Over reading the obvious sarcasm in the original comment. The original vibe was that ND was not yet considered a "good" D-1 hockey program. It is agreed that a 5 yr run of success does not equate the history of success MN has had. But to equate ND as not there yet to be considered "good" is equally farce. Considering Jackson and Co could recruit a class to play in the Joyce Center is a miracle in itself. To consider now the new arena, ND education, and the highly respected coaching abilities of Jackson, it seems ND should be a "good" D-1 program. One can only look at the current make-up of this team and realize they will be a top program for the next many years.
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And I never said Notre Dame wasn't a good program. Just not on the level of Minnesota. Not that this was implied in any comments here, but I find it both annoying and amusing that some people are quick to write the Gophers off as not being an elite program because of their recent struggles. As long as Minnesota Youth Hockey is as strong as it is, the Gophers will always be an elite program.
 
Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

JDUBBS1280 said:
And I never said Notre Dame wasn't a good program.
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Although someone else did so just a few posts earlier...

We're pretty much splitting hairs here, but I'd say it's very clear that Notre Dame is a good program, just not yet a traditional power.

Just not on the level of Minnesota. Not that this was implied in any comments here, but I find it both annoying and amusing that some people are quick to write the Gophers off as not being an elite program because of their recent struggles. As long as Minnesota Youth Hockey is as strong as it is, the Gophers will always be an elite program.
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And Minnesota is a traditional power that has hit a significant, but temporary, rough patch.

Tradition > Recent Success? Recent Success > Tradition?

Nothing wrong with bantering about it, but a definitive answer isn't really possible. Apples and Oranges.
 
pgb-ohio said:
Although someone else did so just a few posts earlier...

We're pretty much splitting hairs here, but I'd say it's very clear that Notre Dame is a good program, just not yet a traditional power.

And Minnesota is a traditional power that has hit a significant, but temporary, rough patch.

Tradition > Recent Success? Recent Success > Tradition?

Nothing wrong with bantering about it, but a definitive answer isn't really possible. Apples and Oranges.
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I think Notre Dame is a very good program. I just get tired of all the people who are quick to write off Minnesota's program because of a down turn. No program is immune to that. Minnesota has, for various reasons, just been slow in adjusting to the changing landscape in college hockey. It's foolish to think they won't rebound.

As for Tradition > Recent success. I guess it depends on where you are from. In MN, our hockey traditions are important to us, so we tend to value that more. Being the second oldest college program and the accomplishments the program has achieved (some matched by no other program) mean something to us. There isn't a right or wrong. Just difference in perspective.
 
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Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

pgb-ohio said:
Although someone else did so just a few posts earlier...

We're pretty much splitting hairs here, but I'd say it's very clear that Notre Dame is a good program, just not yet a traditional power.

And Minnesota is a traditional power that has hit a significant, but temporary, rough patch.

Tradition > Recent Success? Recent Success > Tradition?

Nothing wrong with bantering about it, but a definitive answer isn't really possible. Apples and Oranges.
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Many programs success is based on its W/L record. Minnesota will have quite probably the largest active following in the country if its at least anywhere near .500.
 
Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

JDUBBS1280 said:
I think Notre Dame is a very good program. I just get tired of all the people who are quick to write off Minnesota's program because of a down turn. No program is immune to that. Minnesota has, for various reasons, just been slow in adjusting to the changing landscape in college hockey. It's foolish to think they won't rebound.
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No quarrel with that.

As for Tradition > Recent success. I guess it depends on where you are from. In MN, our hockey traditions are important to us, so we tend to value that more. Being the second oldest college program and the accomplishments the program has achieved (some matched by no other program) mean something to us. There isn't a right or wrong. Just difference in perspective.
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Mostly agree, but I think it's even more basic. When it comes to bragging rights, everybody's going to try and put their best foot forward. Gopher Hockey fans are rightfully proud of their history, and as 5mn Major points out, their fanbase size. At the moment those are simply better arguments than W/L record.

As for the ND fans, they're just looking for respect, and their fair share the spotlight. Given the recent Frozen Four appearances, I'd say they've earned it.

Consider a football analogy. Suppose Coach Kill turns things around and gets Gopher Football to a couple of major bowl games. I can easily imagine an Irish fan playing the "we've got more tradition" card. Would that be true? Yes. Would the claim be well received by Gopher fans? Not so much. ;)
 
pgb-ohio said:
No quarrel with that.

Mostly agree, but I think it's even more basic. When it comes to bragging rights, everybody's going to try and put their best foot forward. Gopher Hockey fans are rightfully proud of their history, and as 5mn Major points out, their fanbase size. At the moment those are simply better arguments than W/L record.

As for the ND fans, they're just looking for respect, and their fair share the spotlight. Given the recent Frozen Four appearances, I'd say they've earned it.

Consider a football analogy. Suppose Coach Kill turns things around and gets Gopher Football to a couple of major bowl games. I can easily imagine an Irish fan playing the "we've got more tradition" card. Would that be true? Yes. Would the claim be well received by Gopher fans? Not so much. ;)
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I absolutely agree. Notre Dame definitely deserves some recognition for it's recent success. They have my respect :). I just didn't agree with the "changing places" comment.
 
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Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

pgb-ohio said:
No quarrel with that.

Mostly agree, but I think it's even more basic. When it comes to bragging rights, everybody's going to try and put their best foot forward. Gopher Hockey fans are rightfully proud of their history, and as 5mn Major points out, their fanbase size. At the moment those are simply better arguments than W/L record.

As for the ND fans, they're just looking for respect, and their fair share the spotlight. Given the recent Frozen Four appearances, I'd say they've earned it.

Consider a football analogy. Suppose Coach Kill turns things around and gets Gopher Football to a couple of major bowl games. I can easily imagine an Irish fan playing the "we've got more tradition" card. Would that be true? Yes. Would the claim be well received by Gopher fans? Not so much. ;)
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Absolutely. The only thing the Gophers have is their 6 National Championships from a long gone era of yesteryear but I get your point.
 
Re: Notre Dame going Independent?

ChiefWahoo said:
This is probably a typo but this article lists the ECAC as a possible destination for ND instead of NCHC.

http://www.southbendtribune.com/spo...e-move-may-come-soon-20110815,0,1227863.story
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Uh, no. Please don't think the SBT is on the cutting edge of anything but the unemployment line. They just finished downsizing their paper to the size of a postage stamp, they laid off 25 staff members, including 17 reporters and do not have a set guy for the hockey beat. Unless they are writing about what flavor of G2 the 3rd string QB for the football team likes, they don't really care.
 
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