Not so ez????

[cross cheque]

Re: Not so ez????

The majority of its teams are good, I'll grant you that. But the last-place team isn't always good. It very often stinks - badly. Just to take a snapshot of the current standings, Michigan Tech and Bowling Green would be bad in the ECAC, too. (And yes, I doubt that Princeton would not be in 2nd place right now if it were in the WCHA.) I guess my real argument is with those people who suggest every year that a WCHA team with one win in conference play would be near the top of the ECAC. No they wouldn't.

I would go so far as to say that the WCHA's bottom 5 teams wouldn't be near the top of the EZAC this year and that Yale* would have minimal trouble beating them on a consistent basis. After that there are 7 teams that usually play each other two weekends per season and are ranked in the top 25 every year, it's a meat grinder of a conference and I just don't see an EZAC team consistently occupying a top spot in the WCHA standings.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Not so ez????

The majority of its teams are good, I'll grant you that. But the last-place team isn't always good. It very often stinks - badly. Just to take a snapshot of the current standings, Michigan Tech and Bowling Green would be bad in the ECAC, too. (And yes, I doubt that Princeton would not be in 2nd place right now if it were in the WCHA.) I guess my real argument is with those people who suggest every year that a WCHA team with one win in conference play would be near the top of the ECAC. No they wouldn't.

Agreed.

Tournament field:

1 seeds - UND, UAA, UMD, DU
2 seeds - Bemidji, Gophers, Col Coll, Wisconsin
3 seeds - UA_, Notre Dame, MTU, UNO
4 seeds - NMU, SCSU*, HEA qualifier, AHA qualifier
*EZAC is so awful that no team from its league deserves to be in the tournament, so any team with said credentials is skipped.

???

I never said the ECAC was awful. I've never called them the EZAC. I said in my post that probably 3-5 teams will make the NCAA Tournament. I was simply responding to a post that said the WCHA worst teams (which I would normally think of as the bottom third or so) were equal to the other leagues worst teams. If you go by KRACH, that simply isn't the case.

I'm not, nor have I ever been, one of those "OMG, the WCHA is the best in the worldzzz" posters. From top to bottom, this year it looks as though the WCHA is the best. KRACH numbers back that up. Does that mean that the top 12 teams in the country are from the WCHA? No. Does it mean that of the top 24 teams in the KRACH standing, that 10 of those play in the WCHA? Yes, yes it does.

 

[TimU]

Re: Not so ez????

True enough. The WCHA has better tradition, arenas, coaches, and recruiting than the EZAC which is why it is a better conference.

Slightly less lazy and slightly more true.

Better tradition: Nope. Great, but not better. Tradition is the ECAC's one continuing strength lately.

Better arenas: Other than historic value, true without a doubt. And better exposure at the arenas via TV.

Better coaches: Maybe. Again, the guys at the very top are certainly great. I'm pretty sure Mike Schafer and Joe Marsh could get jobs out west if they wanted to.

Better recruiting: Easier, yes. Better? Let's see you recruit somebody to play in Canton, Potsdam, or Troy.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Not so ez????

Better tradition: Nope. Great, but not better. Tradition is the ECAC's one continuing strength lately.

Better recruiting: Easier, yes. Better? Let's see you recruit somebody to play in Canton, Potsdam, or Troy.

If the WCHA doesn't have a better tradition, it is at least equal to the ECAC.

As for recruiting, I completely agree. The limitations that are put on many of the ECAC coaches, it's amazing that they have full hockey teams at all.

 

[cross cheque]

Re: Not so ez????

Slightly less lazy and slightly more true.

Better tradition: Nope. Great, but not better. Tradition is the ECAC's one continuing strength lately.

Better arenas: Other than historic value, true without a doubt. And better exposure at the arenas via TV.

Better coaches: Maybe. Again, the guys at the very top are certainly great. I'm pretty sure Mike Schafer and Joe Marsh could get jobs out west if they wanted to.

Better recruiting: Easier, yes. Better? Let's see you recruit somebody to play in Canton, Potsdam, or Troy.

Saying that the EZAC has better tradition than the WCHA is like saying Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball, Minnesota and UND have more tradition in their little fingers than the entire EZAC combined. UND recruits players to Grand Forks, I mean seriously the place smells like rotting flesh and the high for January is 8.

 

[TimU]

Re: Not so ez????

I would go so far as to say that the WCHA's bottom 5 teams wouldn't be near the top of the EZAC this year and that Yale* would have minimal trouble beating them on a consistent basis. After that there are 7 teams that usually play each other two weekends per season and are ranked in the top 25 every year, it's a meat grinder of a conference and I just don't see an EZAC team consistently occupying a top spot in the WCHA standings.

We'll never know.

However, keep in mind that Ylae would BE one of those better teams duking it out with the other heavyweights. They'd take their lumps, but give them, too. And believe it or not, a team like Ylae would rather play someone like Denver than Brown. ECAC conference games can also be tough because of the style of play and, typically, good goaltending.

 

[TimU]

Re: Not so ez????

Saying that the EZAC has better tradition than the WCHA is like saying Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball, Minnesota and UND have more tradition in their little fingers than the entire EZAC combined. UND recruits players to Grand Forks, I mean seriously the place smells like rotting flesh and the high for January is 8.

Ever hear of Lynah Rink? How about Bill Cleary or Hobey Baker?

And Grand Forks? Give me a break. The population of Canton, NY is like 6,500 people and it's **** cold there, too. And if an alum built us a brand new $50 million rink next year, we'd be able to recruit a little, too.

 

[cross cheque]

Re: Not so ez????

We'll never know.

However, keep in mind that Ylae would BE one of those better teams duking it out with the other heavyweights. They'd take their lumps, but give them, too. And believe it or not, a team like Ylae would rather play someone like Denver than Brown.

Agreed sir.

 

[goblue78]

Re: Not so ez????

Here are the numbers. (Note I have use the Sioux Sports Krach values, which is inessential because only ratios matter. Sioux Sports normalizes UND to 100.) The medians line up more or less as one would expect WCHA>CCHA>HE>ECAC>AT. But of course the medians don't tell the whole story. The second column gives the median absolute deviation, a robust measure of how uncertain we are about these values. The difference between the ECAC and the WCHA translates into the median WCHA team playing the median ECAC team and having about a 60 percent chance of winning. But we then have to adjust for our uncertainty in this result. Given the standard deviation of the median (calculated by taking the mean absolute deviation divided by the square root of conference teams... if you don't know, don't ask) there is no significant difference between the median teams in the ECAC, HE and CCHA at all. We can barely assert that the median ECAC team is probably worse than the median WCHA team, but even that conclusion is far from robust -- if we put the ECAC one SD up and the WCHA one standard deviation down, which is very conservative measure of significance, the probability of a WCHA win on neutral ice is only 52 percent -- it's better than 50 percent, but not by a lot.

Median SD Median
AT 5.17 0.71
CC 23.55 3.15
EC 20.26 5.85
HE 22.59 5.54
WC 31.91 3.14

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Not so ez????

Agreed.



???

I never said the ECAC was awful. I've never called them the EZAC. I said in my post that probably 3-5 teams will make the NCAA Tournament. I was simply responding to a post that said the WCHA worst teams (which I would normally think of as the bottom third or so) were equal to the other leagues worst teams. If you go by KRACH, that simply isn't the case.

I'm not, nor have I ever been, one of those "OMG, the WCHA is the best in the worldzzz" posters. From top to bottom, this year it looks as though the WCHA is the best. KRACH numbers back that up. Does that mean that the top 12 teams in the country are from the WCHA? No. Does it mean that of the top 24 teams in the KRACH standing, that 10 of those play in the WCHA? Yes, yes it does.

It seems like the only thing I ever hear on here is that KRACH is all that matters, teams aren't good unless they have a high KRACH SoS, and that the EZAC is a joke. So, why not create a tournament field based solely upon the KRACH SoS, and all the while, eliminating all EZAC teams. It was as much of a joke as all of these threads. Let's just drop the puck tomorrow and enjoy the game that all of us seem to love to watch.

 

[Osorojo]

Re: Not so ez????

Electronic posturing, chest beating and mocking are comical. I wonder if they are to compensate for a late lamented hockey career or a hockey career that never was. Why not just let the kids play and let the results speak for themselves?

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Not so ez????

It seems like the only thing I ever hear on here is that KRACH is all that matters, teams aren't good unless they have a high KRACH SoS, and that the EZAC is a joke. So, why not create a tournament field based solely upon the KRACH SoS, and all the while, eliminating all EZAC teams. It was as much of a joke as all of these threads. Let's just drop the puck tomorrow and enjoy the game that all of us seem to love to watch.

Strength of Schedule is important, but it isn't the only thing that matters. There are a lot of people who will discredit Yale because of the SoS. I don't discredit any team because of their SoS...for the most part you really can't control that. I like to watch as many games as possible of the top teams before I make a decision on a team.

At the end of the day though, you are correct. We all love watching hockey and should just enjoy that. Saying that, we have to have something to talk about between games.

 

[Happy]

Re: Not so ez????

I think you can look at BSU to see what happens when a team goes from a weak SoS, into the WCHA. They had a sparkling record the last few years, and now they are getting ground up by the WCHA to the tune of .375 in conference.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Not so ez????

I think you can look at BSU to see what happens when a team goes from a weak SoS, into the WCHA. They had a sparkling record the last few years, and now they are getting ground up by the WCHA to the tune of .375 in conference.

You could make the same argument with UVM when they moved from the league in question to Hockey East. They went from not half bad to not half bad.

Is there going to now be someone starting a thread about how Hockey East is a joke? -_-

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: Not so ez????

We'll never know.

However, keep in mind that Ylae would BE one of those better teams duking it out with the other heavyweights. They'd take their lumps, but give them, too. And believe it or not, a team like Ylae would rather play someone like Denver than Brown. ECAC conference games can also be tough because of the style of play and, typically, good goaltending.

As a Denver fan, we have a lot of respect for Yale and what Keith Allain is building there. The thumping they put on a decent CC team did not go unnoticed out here, and while the Bulldogs also lost to Air Force on that trip, we know what that feels like, too (although at least not this year). The reality is that Yale would take some lumps as a WCHA member and would not be ranked #1 in the country. But I have little doubt that they would be battling it out among the top 4 WCHA teams for the WCHA championship this year.

 

[TimU]

Re: Not so ez????

As a Denver fan, we have a lot of respect for Yale and what Keith Allain is building there. The thumping they put on a decent CC team did not go unnoticed out here, and while the Bulldogs also lost to Air Force on that trip, we know what that feels like, too (although at least not this year). The reality is that Yale would take some lumps as a WCHA member and would not be ranked #1 in the country. But I have little doubt that they would be battling it out among the top 4 WCHA teams for the WCHA championship this year.

And I assume you know that my comment about Denver had nothing to do with the quality of the team - it's a style thing. Yale likes to skate, and a team like Denver will happily play that game. Brown won't. It's (at least in part) the same reason St. Lawrence has sometimes looked better against Yale in the past few years than they have against Brown. Yale plays the way St. Lawrence wants them to, because they're really good at it.

 

[LTsatch]

Re: Not so ez????

Saying that the EZAC has better tradition than the WCHA is like saying Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball, Minnesota and UND have more tradition in their little fingers than the entire EZAC combined. UND recruits players to Grand Forks, I mean seriously the place smells like rotting flesh and the high for January is 8.

I guess Yale playing in the first college hockey game ever means nothing towards tradition? The other comments about the ECAC recruiting being hamstrung by league rules pale in comparison to the Ivy League, try recruiting with NO SCHOLARSHIPS. I know there are ways around the scholarship rules but there are only so many no-show jobs on each campus

I will always remember this quote by Yale Prez Richard Levin, when asked if Yale would ever offer scholarships.

"Not while I'm president. I believe the Ivy League system reflected in our 1956 agreement has served us well," Levin said. "We are able to attract outstanding students with athletic talent, and they have serious competition without it being professionalized."

 

[Dirty]

Re: Not so ez????

Electronic posturing, chest beating and mocking are comical. I wonder if they are to compensate for a late lamented hockey career or a hockey career that never was. Why not just let the kids play and let the results speak for themselves?

Why do you insist on breathing? Why not try not breathing and let the results speak for themselves?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Not so ez????

I'll let you figure that one out...

Average KRACH rating:
WCHA - 258.84
ECAC - 170.53
Hockey East - 149.61
CCHA - 148.77
AH - 31.87
UAH - 16.2

What's brent say in situations like this? Oh yeah...

BOX

 

[FiveHole12]

Re: Not so ez????

Tournament field:

1 seeds - UND, UAA, UMD, DU
2 seeds - Bemidji, Gophers, Col Coll, Wisconsin
3 seeds - UA_, Notre Dame, MTU, UNO
4 seeds - NMU, SCSU*, HEA qualifier, AHA qualifier
*EZAC is so awful that no team from its league deserves to be in the tournament, so any team with said credentials is skipped.

Well that's one way to try and get the NC trophy back out west.
The HEA qualifier may throw a monkey wrench into the works though.