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Norwich 14-15

Re: Norwich 14-15

Speaking of attendance Norwich has a lot of outstanding players but a superstar hasn't appeared yet. I don't think anything is wrong with this formula because the best D3 team in the country, St. Norbert, has done very well with outstanding goaltending with a few scoring forwards coupled with an outstanding defense. Norwich has some of these ingredients and could surprise a few people this year.

St. Norbert has had many, many outstanding forwards. Check the stats. They don't only win with defense. The reason some of these great players they've had don't have even more career points is because they have been so balanced and don't need to rely on one, or even two, lines. But make no mistake: SNC has often had the best forward group in the country, not just a good goalie and d.
 
Re: Norwich 14-15

St. Norbert has had many, many outstanding forwards. Check the stats. They don't only win with defense. The reason some of these great players they've had don't have even more career points is because they have been so balanced and don't need to rely on one, or even two, lines. But make no mistake: SNC has often had the best forward group in the country, not just a good goalie and d.

SNC is four lines deep with a great defense, a great goalie and a great coach.

There is a reason why they are as good as they are every year.
 
Re: Norwich 14-15

The power play with Norwich has been a hot topic on this board for the past few years. General concensus is there is to much passing around the perimeter, a lot of wasted time when you only have 120 seconds. McShane has never been known to not address an issue with his team, so he must be calling the set up of the power play for it to stay the same for years on end. He definately has more experience with this than I do, so I am guessing that something is not happening during the actual games that he is working with the players on. In my humble opinion, I would like to see more crashing of the net and less point shots, but what do I know? I have to say that I was truely disappointed with the 5 on 3 PP against St. Mike's last night... it truly was pitiful and painful to watch. McShane has a handle on it I am sure, I just hope whatever system he is using becomes more productive this season.
 
Re: Norwich 14-15

Don't want to give too much credit to just one person, but it seems like that ever since NU Prof left for Colorado, this board became way too quiet. Maybe we miss his conversation stimulating abilities, or we have become complacent with our teams ability to win, I am not sure. However, the Cadets need our support this year more than ever as we start out the year with a very young team. The lack of activity on this board might reflect the low attendance at the games and again, I don't have an answer for either problem other than encouraging some of the younger fans (no, not the 10-16 year old ones, but they too are welcome) to get to the games and contribute to this forum. I have heard the jokes and comments about how old the average Norwich fan is, and we all know we are not getting younger. But as long as I am still breathing, I will be a proud Norwich supporter interested in watching the quality hockey the Cadets play. There are times that I will miss a game, but I always watch or listen and turn to this board to get more info about the team. Maybe USCHO and Norwich need to advertise to the younger (again, I am talking about the 20-30 year old group) folks, maybe hold some contests/events to get the interest going. Sound like a job for Prez as SID to push for a promotions crew. Lord knows he does a fantastic job and probably has little time to coordinate promotions. Maybe the Blue Line Club could do more in this department. I am just thinking out loud and don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers, but we really need to get the younger crowd invested in the hockey Cadets. I am looking forward to the game tomorrow night vs St. Mike's squad. Hope there is a good turn out. There, enough said. Good night and GO NORWICH!

I've finally been called out of the woods. As a young NU fan (24), I've followed this board for the past few years but have never joined. While I consider myself a big hockey fan (big enough to purchase NHL Center Ice so I can follow my Blues), I always felt that I didn't know enough about the game, especially the college game and recruiting, to contribute to any discussion. With that said, my time in the Corps has given me insight into the multiple factors that, combined, discourage young fans (from a Corps perspective). While I graduated a few years ago, they still apply. I wrote a longer post earlier, but it got lost when I tried to post it, and looking back it was filled with a lot of Corps-speak that could be lost on some people, so here's an abbreviated version. For this post, when I say "cadets" I'm referring to members of the Corps of Cadets.

1. Corps - Civilian Divide. I could write a thesis on relations between the Corps of Cadets and the traditional student body on campus, but the point is that cadets want to see cadets in jerseys that say "cadets" across the front. Why go to varsity games and cheer on a team that is almost entirely civilian in a PG-environment when you can go to a club game and cheer on your friends, cadre, and rook buddies and be as raucous and rowdy as you want? It was posted earlier that the hockey team was making efforts to engage with students and encourage them to go to the games, and I think this is a great first step as I barely even knew who the hockey players were when I attended.

2. Athlete Stigma in the Corps. Athletes have a reputation of using the fact that they are athletes to cut Corps standards and obligations, and understandably this turns cadet opinion against athletes. Sometimes this is absolutely justified, and certain teams are worse than others, but overall it's an unfortunate stereotype as there are plenty of athletes who are also outstanding cadets. The best way to combat this stereotype is to have athletes in Corps senior leadership positions to be a model to the rest of the Corps about what athletes are about, but also to hold athletes in the Corps accountable. Being an athlete should come with even more responsibility as it is the athletes who represent the school on a regular basis. As we would tell the athletes when I was there (and I being one of them), "You chose to check both boxes when you came here. You checked the box to be an athlete, and you checked the box to be in the Corps of Cadets. You are expected to meet the standards of both."

3. Lack of Rivalries. Cadets always hear stories from alumni and people who've been around about the epic pranks in Norwich history (stealing the Coast Guard bear, painting their schooner maroon and gold, Middlebury students painting Sabine Sally pink, etc.). But those days are over. Rooks no longer stand watch during the week leading up to the Coast Guard game (partly because there is no Coast Guard game…not until 2017 anyways). While Middlebury will always be Norwich's traditional rival, Castleton is now the biggest rival for Norwich athletes, mainly because the Middlebury rivalry is only played out on a consistent basis in hockey while pretty much every Norwich team plays Castleton annually. Notice I said biggest rivalry for athletes, not students. This is because the rivalries exist solely on the field. The students don't have anything invested in them. And I think that's partially because the reality of the modern world damper enthusiasm. Pranks that even approach the level of those legendary ones would make whoever conducted them financially and legally responsible, which would likely cost them their commissions (or from the rival's standpoint, could likely get them expelled and left in debt). Just like the Rooks standing watch, the days of General Harmon refusing to pay a bill to cover the damages that cadets caused to Middlebury's campus are over.

4. Van Wilder Syndrome. This one is stupid and ****es me off, but that doesn't mean that it's not a reality. There's this belief that when you graduate Norwich, you shouldn't be too invested in it in any way because otherwise you're a loser who wants to stay in the glory days. For example, I know for a fact that if some of my friends knew that I was devoting time on a board dedicated to the Norwich hockey team that they would tell me, "Dude, you need to move on." I don't think this is a unique Norwich problem, but it's a Norwich problem nonetheless. I think this reasoning is absolutely stupid. I have friends and relatives that went to Texas A&M, Florida State, Illinois, etc. and they are just as big of fans, if not bigger, of their teams now as they were when they actually attended those schools. When you graduate, teams are the way you stay connected to your school. Why should they be more proud of their alma mater than I am mine? Just because their teams play on ESPN? If anything, those connected with DIII schools should feel even more pride in their teams because the players are actually being held to the same standards as the rest of the students. Again, I hate this reason and think it's absolutely ridiculous, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

As I said before, I've been reading this board for awhile. I really appreciate the insight and enthusiasm that everyone here brings to Norwich hockey and DIII sports in general.
 
I've finally been called out of the woods. As a young NU fan (24), I've followed this board for the past few years but have never joined. While I consider myself a big hockey fan (big enough to purchase NHL Center Ice so I can follow my Blues), I always felt that I didn't know enough about the game, especially the college game and recruiting, to contribute to any discussion. With that said, my time in the Corps has given me insight into the multiple factors that, combined, discourage young fans (from a Corps perspective). While I graduated a few years ago, they still apply. I wrote a longer post earlier, but it got lost when I tried to post it, and looking back it was filled with a lot of Corps-speak that could be lost on some people, so here's an abbreviated version. For this post, when I say "cadets" I'm referring to members of the Corps of Cadets.

1. Corps - Civilian Divide. I could write a thesis on relations between the Corps of Cadets and the traditional student body on campus, but the point is that cadets want to see cadets in jerseys that say "cadets" across the front. Why go to varsity games and cheer on a team that is almost entirely civilian in a PG-environment when you can go to a club game and cheer on your friends, cadre, and rook buddies and be as raucous and rowdy as you want? It was posted earlier that the hockey team was making efforts to engage with students and encourage them to go to the games, and I think this is a great first step as I barely even knew who the hockey players were when I attended.

2. Athlete Stigma in the Corps. Athletes have a reputation of using the fact that they are athletes to cut Corps standards and obligations, and understandably this turns cadet opinion against athletes. Sometimes this is absolutely justified, and certain teams are worse than others, but overall it's an unfortunate stereotype as there are plenty of athletes who are also outstanding cadets. The best way to combat this stereotype is to have athletes in Corps senior leadership positions to be a model to the rest of the Corps about what athletes are about, but also to hold athletes in the Corps accountable. Being an athlete should come with even more responsibility as it is the athletes who represent the school on a regular basis. As we would tell the athletes when I was there (and I being one of them), "You chose to check both boxes when you came here. You checked the box to be an athlete, and you checked the box to be in the Corps of Cadets. You are expected to meet the standards of both."

3. Lack of Rivalries. Cadets always hear stories from alumni and people who've been around about the epic pranks in Norwich history (stealing the Coast Guard bear, painting their schooner maroon and gold, Middlebury students painting Sabine Sally pink, etc.). But those days are over. Rooks no longer stand watch during the week leading up to the Coast Guard game (partly because there is no Coast Guard game…not until 2017 anyways). While Middlebury will always be Norwich's traditional rival, Castleton is now the biggest rival for Norwich athletes, mainly because the Middlebury rivalry is only played out on a consistent basis in hockey while pretty much every Norwich team plays Castleton annually. Notice I said biggest rivalry for athletes, not students. This is because the rivalries exist solely on the field. The students don't have anything invested in them. And I think that's partially because the reality of the modern world damper enthusiasm. Pranks that even approach the level of those legendary ones would make whoever conducted them financially and legally responsible, which would likely cost them their commissions (or from the rival's standpoint, could likely get them expelled and left in debt). Just like the Rooks standing watch, the days of General Harmon refusing to pay a bill to cover the damages that cadets caused to Middlebury's campus are over.

4. Van Wilder Syndrome. This one is stupid and ****es me off, but that doesn't mean that it's not a reality. There's this belief that when you graduate Norwich, you shouldn't be too invested in it in any way because otherwise you're a loser who wants to stay in the glory days. For example, I know for a fact that if some of my friends knew that I was devoting time on a board dedicated to the Norwich hockey team that they would tell me, "Dude, you need to move on." I don't think this is a unique Norwich problem, but it's a Norwich problem nonetheless. I think this reasoning is absolutely stupid. I have friends and relatives that went to Texas A&M, Florida State, Illinois, etc. and they are just as big of fans, if not bigger, of their teams now as they were when they actually attended those schools. When you graduate, teams are the way you stay connected to your school. Why should they be more proud of their alma mater than I am mine? Just because their teams play on ESPN? If anything, those connected with DIII schools should feel even more pride in their teams because the players are actually being held to the same standards as the rest of the students. Again, I hate this reason and think it's absolutely ridiculous, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

As I said before, I've been reading this board for awhile. I really appreciate the insight and enthusiasm that everyone here brings to Norwich hockey and DIII sports in general.

POST. OF. THE. YEAR.

Outstanding. Thank you for taking the time to write this out. I will be referencing this to everyone involved in the Norwich hockey community when it comes to discussing attendance/interest.
 
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Re: Norwich 14-15

I've finally been called out of the woods. As a young NU fan (24), I've followed this board for the past few years but have never joined. While I consider myself a big hockey fan (big enough to purchase NHL Center Ice so I can follow my Blues), I always felt that I didn't know enough about the game, especially the college game and recruiting, to contribute to any discussion. With that said, my time in the Corps has given me insight into the multiple factors that, combined, discourage young fans (from a Corps perspective). While I graduated a few years ago, they still apply. I wrote a longer post earlier, but it got lost when I tried to post it, and looking back it was filled with a lot of Corps-speak that could be lost on some people, so here's an abbreviated version. For this post, when I say "cadets" I'm referring to members of the Corps of Cadets.

Sounds like a baseball player I know. Excellent post!
 
Re: Norwich 14-15

Am I that obvious? :)

You need to move on --- to posting more frequently - to taking advantage of alumni status & perspective - enjoying at least the Primelink Rivalry and never loose sight of the fact that you will always be Cadet.
 
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Re: Norwich 14-15

I really appreciate the hospitality and the welcome, everyone. It's good to have a way to connect with the Cadets outside of streaming games while guzzling Long Trail.

I just know you well my fellow friend....so no march down for the biggest football game of the year against the Spartans...Sad

For what reason? This is a tragedy. One of my best Norwich memories was the 2012 Sap Bucket game, which is ironic considering the fact that we lost. It was Parents' Weekend, so the Rooks were excited to get off campus but that means that they were excited at the game, too. They were really into the game and the different companies were running around raising their banners on the other companies' turf so there was a lot of gamesmanship going on, and this carried over into the game itself. Hell, even the commandants were heckling the Castleton players. I remember after the march down one of the football coaches told us "They stole our flag. They stole our flag." Having been a part of a group that pulled a relatively amateurish and harmless prank on the Castleton campus the night before, we figured that stealing our flag was retaliation. So when Castleton took the field with a flag we figured it was ours. During halftime, a platoon of Rooks stormed their sideline and captured the flag and carried it over to our sideline.

It was only then that we learned that it was actually a flag that was given to them by an alumn who had deployed and that the team took the field with every week. So we had to apologize.

Anyways, the point of that story is that it was then that I thought the rivalry was really starting to grow legs. When I learned that the game was moved to the last week of the season I was initially encouraged because I figure all big rivalry games are the last game of the season (Iron Bowl, Ohio St.-Michigan, Army-Navy, Williams-Amherst), but then I got discouraged because the last week of the season is usually the Saturday before Thanksgiving, so the students are on break. With it being a late Thanksgiving, I got excited thinking that the Corps was going to be at the game Saturday for what is expected to be a hard fought game. So this news is rather depressing as it seems to be another case of one-step-forward-two-steps-back.

While this is a football matter specifically, it does apply more broadly to hockey as Norwich-Castleton is a growing rivalry on the ice, along with every other sport. So the more the students experience it on the gridiron the more likely they are to bring that rivalry passion with them into Kreitzberg when the teams face off in the flagship sport. Having this rivalry blossom into a passionate one would be great for both Norwich and Castleton, as well as the sports scene in Vermont.
 
Re: Norwich 14-15

Randall H. Miller
7 hrs ·
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Re: Norwich 14-15

Looks like Norwich has another one of their "Lego" teams. A bunch of interchangable parts, that all mesh together without any loss of production or defense. I like this team!
 
Re: Norwich 14-15

I wish that the Norwich hockey administration wouldn't **** on my leg and tell me it's raining. It makes no sense not to webcast tomorrow's game. I just wish that they,(whomever "they"are), would be honest to us as to why they are not webcasting the game.
 
Looks like Norwich has another one of their "Lego" teams. A bunch of interchangable parts, that all mesh together without any loss of production or defense. I like this team!

Tonight we saw a top 10 team. Very impressive effort from start to finish by the Cades tonight. Awesome stuff.

TREMENDOUS crowd of over 1800 there too and a ton of rooks to boot. Great stuff! Gotta keep this momentum rolling for when the kids get back in the new year.
 
Re: Norwich 14-15

I wish that the Norwich hockey administration wouldn't **** on my leg and tell me it's raining. It makes no sense not to webcast tomorrow's game. I just wish that they,(whomever "they"are), would be honest to us as to why they are not webcasting the game.

"They" claim it is a test to see how attendance is affected. There were supposed to be two games that weren't going to be on. I just don't believe that it makes a difference, and I'm not totally convinced that is the reason. Guess I will have to listen to tomorrow's game (at least George does a good job of painting a verbal picture of the game), and then see what comes up as far as streaming goes for the upcoming road games.

The team looked good tonight. It will be interesting to see how well they play against the better teams on the schedule. The front end of the schedule hasn't given us bad teams, but not the real high level teams that we will see later on. I think the best team we've seen so far is St. Mike's.
 
Re: Norwich 14-15

I know in college football that alternate uniforms have become a pretty big tool to lure recruits. It started with Oregon and now seemingly every team has a lineup of modern alternate uniforms. I liked the Norwich winter-camo jerseys last night and began wondering if a similar trend is starting to make its way into DIII. I'm not suggesting that a single alternate jersey is going to persuade a recruit to choose one school over the other (at least, I hope not), but it could symbolize a message that the program is forward-thinking and trendy and that could influence possible recruits. Thoughts?
 
Re: Norwich 14-15

I know in college football that alternate uniforms have become a pretty big tool to lure recruits. It started with Oregon and now seemingly every team has a lineup of modern alternate uniforms. I liked the Norwich winter-camo jerseys last night and began wondering if a similar trend is starting to make its way into DIII. I'm not suggesting that a single alternate jersey is going to persuade a recruit to choose one school over the other (at least, I hope not), but it could symbolize a message that the program is forward-thinking and trendy and that could influence possible recruits. Thoughts?
These things cost money. Some programs don't have that kind of budget.
 
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