PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
No one can start official practice until Oct. 15 and no one can play regular season games prior to Nov. 1 unless it falls on a weekend and then you can play Friday.
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Norwich 14-15
- Thread starter Former NUSuntan
- Start date
No one can start official practice until Oct. 15 and no one can play regular season games prior to Nov. 1 unless it falls on a weekend and then you can play Friday.
Re: Norwich 14-15
Isn't there a push for an exhibition game between 10/15 and 11/1?
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Yes
Re: Norwich 14-15
If they are going to do this, why not make it two game series for the quarters and semis. I know all the argument about Pool C, but Pool C is a consolation prize. Set the tournament up so that a fluke game can't knock a team out like the way NU got bounced by UMB in 09, when UMB was the number 8 seed. To me the conference tournament should try to ensure that the strongest team gets the Pool A bid.
If they are going to do this, why not make it two game series for the quarters and semis. I know all the argument about Pool C, but Pool C is a consolation prize. Set the tournament up so that a fluke game can't knock a team out like the way NU got bounced by UMB in 09, when UMB was the number 8 seed. To me the conference tournament should try to ensure that the strongest team gets the Pool A bid.
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Re: Norwich 14-15
Kyle Thomas '13 featured again in the News Sentinel on his play with the Fort Wayne Komets of the ECHL.
http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20150227/SPORTS/150229820
Kyle Thomas '13 featured again in the News Sentinel on his play with the Fort Wayne Komets of the ECHL.
http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20150227/SPORTS/150229820
EastCoastHockey
New member
Re: Norwich 14-15
The conference tournaments ARE set up to ensure the strongest team gets the Pool A bid. They get home ice and play the weaker seeds throughout. A best of 3 series for the quarterfinals makes sense to avoid fluke games. Semifinals-- not so much. I also wouldn't say Pool C is a "consolation prize." It may make the road a bit tougher to the FF, but certainly doesn't guarantee anything. It rewards teams who had a strong regular season that either ran into a fluke game, or a hot team in their conference tournament.
The conference tournaments ARE set up to ensure the strongest team gets the Pool A bid. They get home ice and play the weaker seeds throughout. A best of 3 series for the quarterfinals makes sense to avoid fluke games. Semifinals-- not so much. I also wouldn't say Pool C is a "consolation prize." It may make the road a bit tougher to the FF, but certainly doesn't guarantee anything. It rewards teams who had a strong regular season that either ran into a fluke game, or a hot team in their conference tournament.
ECACeastFAN
ECACE fan / avid game watcher
Re: Norwich 14-15
+1
There is no such thing as a fluke game in the playoffs. The playoffs are gut check time for everyone on the ice. The team that works harder, plays smarter, practices better and wants it more will generally win the game, usually with the help from stellar goaltending. That's the beauty of the playoffs; making a run when it matters most.
If you wanted to "ensure" the strongest teams won the tournament, why would you even have playoffs? NUProf, Norwich losing to an 8 seed in '09 wasn't a fluke, Norwich just didn't play well enough that night and it cost them. It happens. There are upsets to great teams in the playoffs all the time, that doesn't make them "flukes." If anything, the regular season games are all flukes and the team that plays best during the playoffs is the real strongest competitor.
I'm not saying 2 game series wouldn't bring a lot of awesome hockey, but the point of it shouldn't be to eliminate "fluke" games, because this time of year, there is no such thing.
Roll Tide
+1
There is no such thing as a fluke game in the playoffs. The playoffs are gut check time for everyone on the ice. The team that works harder, plays smarter, practices better and wants it more will generally win the game, usually with the help from stellar goaltending. That's the beauty of the playoffs; making a run when it matters most.
If you wanted to "ensure" the strongest teams won the tournament, why would you even have playoffs? NUProf, Norwich losing to an 8 seed in '09 wasn't a fluke, Norwich just didn't play well enough that night and it cost them. It happens. There are upsets to great teams in the playoffs all the time, that doesn't make them "flukes." If anything, the regular season games are all flukes and the team that plays best during the playoffs is the real strongest competitor.
I'm not saying 2 game series wouldn't bring a lot of awesome hockey, but the point of it shouldn't be to eliminate "fluke" games, because this time of year, there is no such thing.
Roll Tide
PSUChamps2001
Member of the REAL Zoo Crew
Re: Norwich 14-15
I will start with the fact we will agree to disagree because a hot goalie does not mean a TEAM was better. The whole point of the playoffs is to try and get the best TEAM to move on. Hockey is a unique sport in which a hot goaltender can change the course of a game. If a 25-0-0 team outshoots a 0-25-0 opponent 100-1 but loses 1-0 on an OT goal that bounces off a hand, then foot, while the goaltender trips on an ice patch trying to slide over behind the scrum in front of the net? The winning goaltender has a 9.99 GAA with a .675 save %, but for one game he is unhuman...? While the numbers may be slightly exaggerated, I've seen it happen too many times, both against Plattsburgh and in Plattsburgh's favor. Yes the old days of 2 game/mini game series in the NCAA Finals are long gone, and for somewhat good reasons. But to say there are no flukes in the playoffs is beyond absurd. Yes I will agree that just because its an upset, doesn't mean it's a fluke...in regards to the UMB/Norwich year, UMB had 9 1 goal loses that season 4 of which were in OT. Not your typical 8th seed by any means. There was also a 1 goal OT loss to Norwich a few weeks earlier, so no I'm not sure its a fluke but more so an upset. The problem is, some years you will get a much worse 8th seed who has no business moving on and taking out a top seed because of a hot goalie. (Fredonia '14-'15).
I will start with the fact we will agree to disagree because a hot goalie does not mean a TEAM was better. The whole point of the playoffs is to try and get the best TEAM to move on. Hockey is a unique sport in which a hot goaltender can change the course of a game. If a 25-0-0 team outshoots a 0-25-0 opponent 100-1 but loses 1-0 on an OT goal that bounces off a hand, then foot, while the goaltender trips on an ice patch trying to slide over behind the scrum in front of the net? The winning goaltender has a 9.99 GAA with a .675 save %, but for one game he is unhuman...? While the numbers may be slightly exaggerated, I've seen it happen too many times, both against Plattsburgh and in Plattsburgh's favor. Yes the old days of 2 game/mini game series in the NCAA Finals are long gone, and for somewhat good reasons. But to say there are no flukes in the playoffs is beyond absurd. Yes I will agree that just because its an upset, doesn't mean it's a fluke...in regards to the UMB/Norwich year, UMB had 9 1 goal loses that season 4 of which were in OT. Not your typical 8th seed by any means. There was also a 1 goal OT loss to Norwich a few weeks earlier, so no I'm not sure its a fluke but more so an upset. The problem is, some years you will get a much worse 8th seed who has no business moving on and taking out a top seed because of a hot goalie. (Fredonia '14-'15).
ECACeastFAN
ECACE fan / avid game watcher
Re: Norwich 14-15
I understand the argument wholly. However, I think the only thing we agree on is agreeing to disagree, because it's the job of the better team to beat the hot goaltender. I'll secede and say flukes can happen, but I don't think any teams in the ECAC East are bad enough to merit "fluke" status regardless of how the game unfolds. The whole shots on goal thing is the most overrated stat in all of hockey, especially at the D3 level when not every kid has a lethal rip.
On a side note, I've often heard and agreed that goaltending is the biggest difference between D1 & D3 hockey, aside from the NHL-Draft 1st liners on the elite D1 teams. There's a lot of poor goaltending in D3, and a below-average team recruiting a goaltender that can stand on his head should be an accomplishment for that program, not deemed a fluke by the team that loses.
All-in-all, the top 4 seeds played at home last weekend and all won their games, so whether you call them flukes, upsets or just plain wins, it's nice to see it didn't happen this year.
I understand the argument wholly. However, I think the only thing we agree on is agreeing to disagree, because it's the job of the better team to beat the hot goaltender. I'll secede and say flukes can happen, but I don't think any teams in the ECAC East are bad enough to merit "fluke" status regardless of how the game unfolds. The whole shots on goal thing is the most overrated stat in all of hockey, especially at the D3 level when not every kid has a lethal rip.
On a side note, I've often heard and agreed that goaltending is the biggest difference between D1 & D3 hockey, aside from the NHL-Draft 1st liners on the elite D1 teams. There's a lot of poor goaltending in D3, and a below-average team recruiting a goaltender that can stand on his head should be an accomplishment for that program, not deemed a fluke by the team that loses.
All-in-all, the top 4 seeds played at home last weekend and all won their games, so whether you call them flukes, upsets or just plain wins, it's nice to see it didn't happen this year.
PSUChamps2001
Member of the REAL Zoo Crew
Re: Norwich 14-15
Correct, one could argue that the single weekend Final Four format has a disadvantage to the 2nd place team having to play on a neutral site, but
Not only that, but it also gives teams who have more than 1 National Contender in their conference a chance. While Norwich hasn't had to deal with this in several years on a consistent basis, other leagues have. 3 out of the last 6 teams to play in the National Championship game would not have been there had it been Pool A or bust. Oswego and UWEC would still have empty trophy cases as well....
For the record those, since 2000 the National Champion has had a winning record of 25-4-3. Only 5 times has a team won the National Title with 5 or more loses. Only once has a team had 6 or more loses (Neumann 2009 - 9). Only 3 times has a team had a .800% and below and 7 times below .850%
Correct, one could argue that the single weekend Final Four format has a disadvantage to the 2nd place team having to play on a neutral site, but
Not only that, but it also gives teams who have more than 1 National Contender in their conference a chance. While Norwich hasn't had to deal with this in several years on a consistent basis, other leagues have. 3 out of the last 6 teams to play in the National Championship game would not have been there had it been Pool A or bust. Oswego and UWEC would still have empty trophy cases as well....
For the record those, since 2000 the National Champion has had a winning record of 25-4-3. Only 5 times has a team won the National Title with 5 or more loses. Only once has a team had 6 or more loses (Neumann 2009 - 9). Only 3 times has a team had a .800% and below and 7 times below .850%
PSUChamps2001
Member of the REAL Zoo Crew
Re: Norwich 14-15
Did you happen to see Southern Maine?? Thankfully in the SUNYAC we get rid of the bottom 3 teams, and then have 3 vs 6 - 4 vs 5. They were held to just 12 shots on goal against Norwich. 10 of their loses were by 4 or more goals. USM scored 35 goals all season, Oswego scored 34 the first 5 games....Had Norwich lost to USM last weekend it would have been a fluke. Norwich wins that matchup 9 times out of 10 (and that's being generous to USM). We could move on to Skidmore as well....there is a reason they lost to UMB 1-11!
B. We are not talking about a Kevin Carr here. There is a difference between a "below-average" team and Southern Maine/Fredonia/Skidmore having their goalie stand on their head. If a "below-average" team recruits a goaltender who can "stand on his head" there is a big chance they won't end up 0-fer in a conference and have a below .200 winning % and being an 8th seed come playoff time. If he's been giving up 5, 6, 7 goals a game all season long and then for 1 game holds a #1 team to 0...that's a fluke. "Hey you're goaltender sucked all season, but GREAT JOB recruiting him for that 1 60 minute game..."
Did you happen to see Southern Maine?? Thankfully in the SUNYAC we get rid of the bottom 3 teams, and then have 3 vs 6 - 4 vs 5. They were held to just 12 shots on goal against Norwich. 10 of their loses were by 4 or more goals. USM scored 35 goals all season, Oswego scored 34 the first 5 games....Had Norwich lost to USM last weekend it would have been a fluke. Norwich wins that matchup 9 times out of 10 (and that's being generous to USM). We could move on to Skidmore as well....there is a reason they lost to UMB 1-11!
B. We are not talking about a Kevin Carr here. There is a difference between a "below-average" team and Southern Maine/Fredonia/Skidmore having their goalie stand on their head. If a "below-average" team recruits a goaltender who can "stand on his head" there is a big chance they won't end up 0-fer in a conference and have a below .200 winning % and being an 8th seed come playoff time. If he's been giving up 5, 6, 7 goals a game all season long and then for 1 game holds a #1 team to 0...that's a fluke. "Hey you're goaltender sucked all season, but GREAT JOB recruiting him for that 1 60 minute game..."
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Re: Norwich 14-15
Norwich routinely holds teams to less shots on goal than they are used to over the course of a season. It is very rare for teams to come into Kreitzberg and get 25 or more shots against NU. Southern Maine was an improved team in the second half of the season once they had the coaching change. They have a good goalie and now they just need some scorers to fill in around him. Give the Huskies a Mark Carragher or two and they are different team next year.
Norwich routinely holds teams to less shots on goal than they are used to over the course of a season. It is very rare for teams to come into Kreitzberg and get 25 or more shots against NU. Southern Maine was an improved team in the second half of the season once they had the coaching change. They have a good goalie and now they just need some scorers to fill in around him. Give the Huskies a Mark Carragher or two and they are different team next year.
ECACeastFAN
ECACE fan / avid game watcher
Re: Norwich 14-15
It all comes down to coaching. Top programs have the culture that wins all year. Teams that aren't used to success try their best in the playoffs after bad seasons. And had Norwich lost to USM? I know it was a "close" game, but they weren't going to lose. And if they did, Fluke or not, the winning team would deserve to move on.
The point of all this is that top teams don't deserve special treatment come playoff time, just home ice. The real solution is expanding the NCAAs to 16 teams so that there are more at-large spots available for good teams that fail to win their conference.
It all comes down to coaching. Top programs have the culture that wins all year. Teams that aren't used to success try their best in the playoffs after bad seasons. And had Norwich lost to USM? I know it was a "close" game, but they weren't going to lose. And if they did, Fluke or not, the winning team would deserve to move on.
The point of all this is that top teams don't deserve special treatment come playoff time, just home ice. The real solution is expanding the NCAAs to 16 teams so that there are more at-large spots available for good teams that fail to win their conference.
Re: Norwich 14-15
+1 It would be great to have a 16 team field to eliminate any issues with "hot goalies", "off night" issues. Those situations happen to the best and worst of teams depending on your perspective, and it really is the pits if the better team loses because of the "off night". However... the great teams play every game as if it is the Frozen Four, and usually win. The 09 Norwich loss unfortunately was because UMB played better that night...I was there and it was hard to take, but well desearved by UMB. As it might be this year should we meet again next week. First, let's take care of Castleton as I am sure both Coach McShane and Coach Moffat are prepping their players for. GO WICK!
+1 It would be great to have a 16 team field to eliminate any issues with "hot goalies", "off night" issues. Those situations happen to the best and worst of teams depending on your perspective, and it really is the pits if the better team loses because of the "off night". However... the great teams play every game as if it is the Frozen Four, and usually win. The 09 Norwich loss unfortunately was because UMB played better that night...I was there and it was hard to take, but well desearved by UMB. As it might be this year should we meet again next week. First, let's take care of Castleton as I am sure both Coach McShane and Coach Moffat are prepping their players for. GO WICK!
LakerEagleLover
New member
Re: Norwich 14-15
You both know that ncaa d3 formulas for post season are for all sports, not just hockey...so 16 teams for hockey would require an ark full of new teams playing the sport...for the formula would not be changed for hockey alone...from what I remember...if I am wrong, someone who knows better correct me, please...
PSUChamps2001
Member of the REAL Zoo Crew
You both know that ncaa d3 formulas for post season are for all sports, not just hockey...so 16 teams for hockey would require an ark full of new teams playing the sport...for the formula would not be changed for hockey alone...from what I remember...if I am wrong, someone who knows better correct me, please...
Correct...they are just living in the dream like the rest of us...
Bang on. The keys to beating Norwich in the NCAA'S are getting them out of their rink and getting 25 (or more) shots on net.
The Real Georgia Peach
Registered User
Re: Norwich 14-15
Well, today's the day. Does Norwich win big, sneak through, or get upset? They need to play three periods of hockey. It's been my observation that they have rested during the second period a lot this year, usually because they have had a scorching first period.
Well, today's the day. Does Norwich win big, sneak through, or get upset? They need to play three periods of hockey. It's been my observation that they have rested during the second period a lot this year, usually because they have had a scorching first period.