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Norwich 14-15
- Thread starter Former NUSuntan
- Start date
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
I wouldn't want to be whoever faces Oswego next Saturday. LOOK OUT.
NU Pastime
New member
Re: Norwich 14-15
On a completely separate note, can someone explain to this newbie the purpose of DII hockey? I got confused when watching highlights of the Norwich game only to see St. Mike's and St. A's meeting in a different conference championship.
On a completely separate note, can someone explain to this newbie the purpose of DII hockey? I got confused when watching highlights of the Norwich game only to see St. Mike's and St. A's meeting in a different conference championship.
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Saint Anselm and Saint Michael's are ineligible for ECAC East playoffs because they are Division II. It's been a long talked about topic of why they are allowed in the league and on a couple of separate occasions there has been talk about them being forced out of the league.
There has also been rumors of one if not both looking at reclassifying for Division III. I think Saint Michael's would do it if they could find a suitable league.
Basically basketball is what keeps both schools at Division II.
norm1909
Larry Normandin
Last edited:
Birdwatcher
Registered User
Re: Norwich 14-15
Honestly I thought they would be taking the anger of Friday's tie out on the Bears !
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Oswego has struggled vs. Potsdam on Saturday night at home after playing Plattsburgh the previous night.
Lot of emotions and gas used on Friday night. Saturday becomes Classic trap game.
Let's also give a ton of credit to Potsdam team that has ended the year real strong and earned a home playoff game.
Old Rook NU'66
Registered User
Re: Norwich 14-15
NU was a contender the entire game—simply because of what this team has proven to be made of. That team last night was the same one who in the first Babson game with five seconds to go.... tied it up with their goal empty and six attackers on the ice. And the same team that won that game in overtime.
All year….they have been full of pleasant surprises all around from two VERY solid but new faces in goal...great defense with an offensive punch….and four lines so deep in offensive talent—that scoring comes from every direction. All that....along with the discipline that keeps them out of the box and by consistently playing with the teamwork that has gotten them this far. Was I nervous last night well inside the 3rd period? Sure. Surprised they won? Not really… but it was fun seeing them finally pull that one out. And yes, the USM Goalie Shapiro played a superb game---he was USM's star.
Going forward....at this point every opponent is dangerous including Castleton. One game at a time.
Sorry about the Owsego score. Ouch…that had to hurt.
When I read that score—I could only imagined what it might have felt like had USM beaten NU. Good luck NU next weekend...
NU was a contender the entire game—simply because of what this team has proven to be made of. That team last night was the same one who in the first Babson game with five seconds to go.... tied it up with their goal empty and six attackers on the ice. And the same team that won that game in overtime.
All year….they have been full of pleasant surprises all around from two VERY solid but new faces in goal...great defense with an offensive punch….and four lines so deep in offensive talent—that scoring comes from every direction. All that....along with the discipline that keeps them out of the box and by consistently playing with the teamwork that has gotten them this far. Was I nervous last night well inside the 3rd period? Sure. Surprised they won? Not really… but it was fun seeing them finally pull that one out. And yes, the USM Goalie Shapiro played a superb game---he was USM's star.
Going forward....at this point every opponent is dangerous including Castleton. One game at a time.
Sorry about the Owsego score. Ouch…that had to hurt.
When I read that score—I could only imagined what it might have felt like had USM beaten NU. Good luck NU next weekend...NU Pastime
New member
Re: Norwich 14-15
I mean, it still doesn't explain why it exists. It doesn't make sense. Is something different in hockey compared to the other sports? Why spend more money on a hockey program that doesn't really have anything to compete for when you could be DIII, not give scholarships, and have more to play for? What am I missing?
I mean, it still doesn't explain why it exists. It doesn't make sense. Is something different in hockey compared to the other sports? Why spend more money on a hockey program that doesn't really have anything to compete for when you could be DIII, not give scholarships, and have more to play for? What am I missing?
norm1909
Larry Normandin
Last edited:
NU Pastime
New member
Re: Norwich 14-15
That makes more sense.
That makes more sense.
norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Norwich 14-15
Note, other Division II schools with ice hockey choose to play as Division I programs under the higher Division I scholarship limits and can compete for the DI championship (as do some DIII schools, though no new DIII schools can choose to).
Note, other Division II schools with ice hockey choose to play as Division I programs under the higher Division I scholarship limits and can compete for the DI championship (as do some DIII schools, though no new DIII schools can choose to).
NU Pastime
New member
Re: Norwich 14-15
Sounds like I have some research to do on the rules of divisional membership.
Sounds like I have some research to do on the rules of divisional membership.
norm1909
Larry Normandin
norm1909
Larry Normandin
CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
Re: Norwich 14-15
To summarize and expand upon what has been said...
Fact #1: There are not enough DII schools sponsoring Ice Hockey to warrant the playing of a National Championship at that level.
Fact #2: As there is no DII National Championship, all of the DII Member Schools sponsoring the sport have the opportunity to play DI Ice Hockey under all of the rules and restrictions applicable to normal DI Member Schools. Most affected schools do this.
Fact #3: Six memebers of the Northeast 10 conference chose not to make that jump. There was another DII School (Minnesota-Crookston), but they folded their program a while ago. They techincally play DII Hockey, as there is no longer an allowance for teams to "play down". (There used to be, which is why Bemidji State has a DIII Title in their records, and Saint Cloud once played Oswego in an NCAA semifinal.) But, since there is no DII National Championship, and they are not technically playing DIII Hockey, they are not eligible to compete for any National Championship titles... Nor are they eligible to compete for Conference Championship titles that would grant an Automatic Bid into an NCAA Tournament.
Fact #4: Much like Norwich's past game against Dartmouth, games between one of these 6 institutions and a DIII member school count for some purposes, but not others. As the opponent is an American 4-year institution, the game counts for the DIII school as a part of their 25-game limit. However, the game is not played against a DIII opponent, and as such it cannot be counted as a part of their official Win-Loss record for the purposes of NCAA Ranking consideration. Essentially, the game never happened. Recently, the record against these institutions has been introduced as a separate Secondary Criteria that can be considered, but it does not appear that the committee has needed to use it to date.
Fact #5: Despite the odd situation these schools find the selves in, the ECAC-E has decided to allow St. Michael's and St. Anselm to compete in their conference. Their games all count for conference statistics and standings, but they are not eligible to participate in the ECAC-E Postseason Tournament.
Fact #6: All 6 of these schools are members of the Northeast 10 Conference, and have therefore decided to sponsor their own Conference Championship Tournament. In order to do this, St. Michael's and St. Anselm must play each of their fellow DII Conference opponents once (with the first matchup between the two ECAC-E schools counting towards standings in BOTH conferences), while the remaining teams play each other 3 times each. The 1-game series each award 2 points for a win, or 1 point for a tie, while the 3-game series each award 2 points to the best-of-three winner, or 1 point for a 1-1-1 or 0-0-3 series split. This results in 4 schools playing 11 games each (the Stonehill-Assumption match cancelled due to weather was never rescheduled because Stonehill had already earned the series points), while St. Michaels and St. Anselm playing only 5 conference games in the conference in which they are eligible to compete for a postseason title and 18 games in a conference whose title they cannot win!
Fact #7: While it is clear that, at least in the case of St. Michael's and St. Anselm, the hockey team would be much better off if the institution transitioned to DIII, that appears unlikely. Each of them has a strong Basketball program at the DII level, which would lose its prominence and profitability in any drop to DIII. Furthermore, as a part pf the transition process, the schools would have to endure a 4-year "cleansing" period in which none of their athletic programs would be eligible for any postseason play. Also, they would need to find a conference for their non-hockey sports, and that is just as daunting a task. As a result of these 3 factors, the schools have not yet made the decision to drop to DIII. There have veen repeated proposals in the DIII conventions to allow for an exception for these 6 institutions, which have been rejected by the DIII membership (all members, not jsut the 72 sponsoring Ice Hockey). Failing that, we know that at least St. Anselm has investigated the viability of a jump to Atlantic Hockey, but it looks like the administration has decided against that option for now. The only other options are to fold the program altogether (which does not benefit ANYBODY in this situation) or maintain the status quo. So it looks like nothing will be changing any time in the near future.
To summarize and expand upon what has been said...
Fact #1: There are not enough DII schools sponsoring Ice Hockey to warrant the playing of a National Championship at that level.
Fact #2: As there is no DII National Championship, all of the DII Member Schools sponsoring the sport have the opportunity to play DI Ice Hockey under all of the rules and restrictions applicable to normal DI Member Schools. Most affected schools do this.
Fact #3: Six memebers of the Northeast 10 conference chose not to make that jump. There was another DII School (Minnesota-Crookston), but they folded their program a while ago. They techincally play DII Hockey, as there is no longer an allowance for teams to "play down". (There used to be, which is why Bemidji State has a DIII Title in their records, and Saint Cloud once played Oswego in an NCAA semifinal.) But, since there is no DII National Championship, and they are not technically playing DIII Hockey, they are not eligible to compete for any National Championship titles... Nor are they eligible to compete for Conference Championship titles that would grant an Automatic Bid into an NCAA Tournament.
Fact #4: Much like Norwich's past game against Dartmouth, games between one of these 6 institutions and a DIII member school count for some purposes, but not others. As the opponent is an American 4-year institution, the game counts for the DIII school as a part of their 25-game limit. However, the game is not played against a DIII opponent, and as such it cannot be counted as a part of their official Win-Loss record for the purposes of NCAA Ranking consideration. Essentially, the game never happened. Recently, the record against these institutions has been introduced as a separate Secondary Criteria that can be considered, but it does not appear that the committee has needed to use it to date.
Fact #5: Despite the odd situation these schools find the selves in, the ECAC-E has decided to allow St. Michael's and St. Anselm to compete in their conference. Their games all count for conference statistics and standings, but they are not eligible to participate in the ECAC-E Postseason Tournament.
Fact #6: All 6 of these schools are members of the Northeast 10 Conference, and have therefore decided to sponsor their own Conference Championship Tournament. In order to do this, St. Michael's and St. Anselm must play each of their fellow DII Conference opponents once (with the first matchup between the two ECAC-E schools counting towards standings in BOTH conferences), while the remaining teams play each other 3 times each. The 1-game series each award 2 points for a win, or 1 point for a tie, while the 3-game series each award 2 points to the best-of-three winner, or 1 point for a 1-1-1 or 0-0-3 series split. This results in 4 schools playing 11 games each (the Stonehill-Assumption match cancelled due to weather was never rescheduled because Stonehill had already earned the series points), while St. Michaels and St. Anselm playing only 5 conference games in the conference in which they are eligible to compete for a postseason title and 18 games in a conference whose title they cannot win!
Fact #7: While it is clear that, at least in the case of St. Michael's and St. Anselm, the hockey team would be much better off if the institution transitioned to DIII, that appears unlikely. Each of them has a strong Basketball program at the DII level, which would lose its prominence and profitability in any drop to DIII. Furthermore, as a part pf the transition process, the schools would have to endure a 4-year "cleansing" period in which none of their athletic programs would be eligible for any postseason play. Also, they would need to find a conference for their non-hockey sports, and that is just as daunting a task. As a result of these 3 factors, the schools have not yet made the decision to drop to DIII. There have veen repeated proposals in the DIII conventions to allow for an exception for these 6 institutions, which have been rejected by the DIII membership (all members, not jsut the 72 sponsoring Ice Hockey). Failing that, we know that at least St. Anselm has investigated the viability of a jump to Atlantic Hockey, but it looks like the administration has decided against that option for now. The only other options are to fold the program altogether (which does not benefit ANYBODY in this situation) or maintain the status quo. So it looks like nothing will be changing any time in the near future.
norm1909
Larry Normandin
NU Pastime
New member
Re: Norwich 14-15
Wow, what a mess. At any rate, I very much appreciate the help in understanding this! Forgive my newbie-ness.
Wow, what a mess. At any rate, I very much appreciate the help in understanding this! Forgive my newbie-ness.
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Another game with all different goal scorers.
This team's depth continues to impress.
This team's depth continues to impress.