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Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

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Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Kepler said:
I'm sure you're right, but what you're saying risks that fallacy.
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Then you've misinterpreted what I said. I did chime in on another comment about the fact it's not uncommon for guilty parties to plead innocent, whether it be on the street or from jail. That's not only not inaccurate, but in an of itself not remotely an indictment of everyone that finds themselves on the wrong side of a cop's judgement. Of course there is racism among cops and I don't doubt for a second they've been guilty of malfeasance. That shouldn't lead you to ascribe a belief system of, "you were accused therefore you must be guilty" because of one innocous comment.

When the story first broke I’ll admit that I figured something went terribly wrong on the cop’s side or people wouldn’t be freaking out. However, a good amount of information that’s come to light since the initial hysteria broke indicates the cop was guilty of doing nothing but defending himself. Does it really require bias to think at this point the answer is up to interpretation and requires further exploration? Accoring to trix the answer is yes.
 
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Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

St. Clown said:
A little more fuel for the fire: http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/08/ferguson-police-officer-darren-wilson---who-shot-michael-brown---had-serious-facial-injury-source-sa.html

Unless we or, more importantly, the courts can see pictorial evidence of these facial wounds, it's all rumor and hear-say, and given how information has come from the PD on this, I'm not completely sold until there is irrefutable evidence. If Wilson had been struck like that, the outcome for Michael Brown shouldn't surprise anyone and will cast great amounts of doubt and suspision onto Brown's friend who's been telling avery different story.
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I highly doubt they wouldn't have shown that during their little smear campaign if it was true. Not to mention I believe that video showed Wilson after the shooting and he didn't appear to be hurt. That said it's not impossible obviously.

Slap Shot said:
However, a good amount of information that’s come to light since the initial hysteria broke indicates the cop was guilty of doing nothing but defending himself. Does it really require bias to think at this point the answer is up to interpretation and requires further exploration? Accoring to trix the answer is yes.
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It's all from the cop himself or a friend/family member though (or the smear campaign by the PD). Or an "unnamed source" ie the worst kind of source. There's plenty of reason to be skeptical about it to say the least.

Obviously there should be further exploration, that's what the DOJ is doing.
 
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Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

unofan said:
Seriously? You've never heard people say things along the lines of "why'd he (lawyer up, protest so much, etc.) if he's innocent?"
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Are you claiming that's the equivalent to the dude on Cops who's saying he didn't do nothin' when they have him on video doing somethin'.

Everybody would tell you that you should get a lawyer if you could be accused of something.


And when I said, "Who would make that leap?", I was referring to Kepler saying what he said - not people lawyering up or reflexively professing false innocence.
 
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Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

There's at least one named source trix and one unnamed, neither of which are the cop's friend. Harris was most likely shot from the front. You're clinging to one eyewitness who's testimony is bunk if the autopsy is correct but you're sure you know what happened. The only bias here appears to be yours.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Slap Shot said:
There's at least one named source trix and one unnamed, neither of which are the cop's friend. Harris was most likely shot from the front. You're clinging to one eyewitness who's testimony is bunk if the autopsy is correct but you're sure you know what happened. The only bias here appears to be yours.
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I've changed my mind and have learned a valuable lesson. Don't believe anything about any of these stories until the story is so old no one cares anymore. Then, maybe, you can read about what happened.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Slap Shot said:
There's at least one named source trix and one unnamed, neither of which are the cop's friend. Harris was most likely shot from the front. You're clinging to one eyewitness who's testimony is bunk if the autopsy is correct but you're sure you know what happened. The only bias here appears to be yours.
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Who is the named source? The only one I've seen is a source "close to officer Wilson".

The autopsy is done from an anatomical position, ie palms facing out as well as the inner arm region facing out. Problem is people don't walk or run in an anatomical position. So it's possible that some of those wounds were via shots from behind but Baden wasn't sure. Also from what it sounds like, Wilson did fire a shot while Brown was running away:

As Officer Wilson got out of his car, the men were running away. The officer fired his weapon but did not hit anyone, according to law enforcement officials
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/u...er-as-holder-schedules-visit.html?ref=us&_r=2

I'm not clinging to one eyewitness, there were 3 more or less saying the same thing.

Mr. Brady said he could see Mr. Johnson at the front passenger side of the car when he and Mr. Brown suddenly started running. Mr. Brady did not hear a gunshot or know what caused them to run. But he said he did see a police officer get out of the patrol car and start walking briskly while firing on Mr. Brown as he fled.
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Johnson said the same thing as well. Tiffany did too.
 
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Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Gurtholfin said:
No, it's not. It's reality. It's human nature to deny wrong-doing or minimize what he/she may have done to contribute to a situation.

Just because a guilty person will reflexively profess innocence doesn't mean that everyone professing innocence is guilty.

Who would make that logical leap?
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OK, I'm going to speak... very... gently.

The logical leap in my first post was A CRITICISM of precisely the leap you are talking about. I was underlining exactly what you are talking about. Exactly.

We are saying the exact... same... thing.

How hard is that?
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Slap Shot said:
Then you've misinterpreted what I said. I did chime in on another comment about the fact it's not uncommon for guilty parties to plead innocent, whether it be on the street or from jail. That's not only not inaccurate, but in an of itself not remotely an indictment of everyone that finds themselves on the wrong side of a cop's judgement. Of course there is racism among cops and I don't doubt for a second they've been guilty of malfeasance. That shouldn't lead you to ascribe a belief system of, "you were accused therefore you must be guilty" because of one innocous comment.
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OK, I get you. I guess my criticism was cocked and ready and your statement happened to set it off. Not unlike a citizen with a cop on edge...
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

ScoobyDoo said:
I've changed my mind and have learned a valuable lesson. Don't believe anything about any of these stories until the story is so old no one cares anymore. Then, maybe, you can read about what happened.
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This is why History rocks. ;)
 
trixR4kids said:
Who is the named source? The only one I've seen is a source "close to officer Wilson".
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Eyewitness accounts

Another witness, Piaget Crenshaw, told CNN regarding a video she captured shortly after the Brown shooting that there had been a “tussle” at Wilson’s police vehicle.

As reported earlier on IJReview, due to a story broken by Conservative Treehouse, a different witness at the scene of the shooting of Michael Brown suggests that the 6’4″ 292 pound Brown had turned to the police officer and “kept coming towards him” when he was shot.
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Neither one the cop's friend. Of course this isn't set in stone, but the incident does appear to be up for debate and I'm not sure how you are so sure otherwise.
 
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Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Kepler said:
In a criminal investigation, nobody gets the benefit of the doubt.

The benefit the cop gets is innocent unless proven guilty. It is starting to sound like there is so little real information and so little honesty from all parties concerned that regardless of what really happened the criminal standard of guilt (beyond reasonable doubt) will never be met. The civil standard (preponderance of the evidence), on the other hand, might be met.
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I was talking about POTUS, the AG of the United States, the governor of Missouri and the media lynch mob, just to name a few. The opinions expressed here are like farts in a whirl wind. There has been an enormous rush to judgment here. And your half baked, "I'm an expert because I watched every episode of Law and Order" crapola about standards of evidence is just that.
 
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Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

cF[Authentic] said:
I'm sure the reaction at how Ferguson handled things played a massive role in how St. Louis PD released information. My guess is they went above and beyond to make sure people knew it wasn't a similar incident to Ferguson.
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Plus, an infinitely larger agency, with infinitely more resources.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Kepler said:
Is that the girlfriend of the wife of the accused cop who called into right wing radio with an "eyewitness" account?
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She never claimed to be an eyewitness. Her "crime" in your view is not where she delivered her second hand version of events. But that she delivered this "murdering" cop's version at all. Every race hustler in the country has been given unlimited airtime to express his version of events and what it all means. Malik Shabazz for the love of God! But it's evidently out of bounds to hear anyone supporting this cop.
 
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Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Can someone help me out here? I've lost track of just how many lawyers the parents of the "gentle giant" (who was starting college this week) have on retainer. I saw a new one today on the tube and can't recall if that makes three or four. Interesting, since "Big Mike's" parents aren't and won't be charged with anything, why they need an SUV full of lawyers. Could it be these bottom feeders are smelling their cut of a giant civil verdict? Stay classy, lawyers.

And is it my imagination, or have the dead enders quietly dropped their laughable assertions that the giant person seen on the surveillance video cuffing that convenience store clerk around on the way out the door with the cigars wasn't "Big Mike?"
 
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