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NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason

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Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason

pgb-ohio said:
From one linguistic purist to another, let me say you quibble very well.:p;)

Appreciate your research. I was going to look this stuff up, but you saved me trouble.

Overall, I agree that the label doesn't ultimately matter. But it is a reasonable off-season topic, and we now find ourselves in the off-season.
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I was a bit surprised that NHL / Hockey Hall of Fame actually had listed out their "official" dynasties....

I guess that makes them the ultimate arbiter for hockey, eh? ;)
 
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason

Intangibles? I understand that some very good players have been surrounded by schlock, but trix you're coming off like Richard in Tommy Boy when the one guy said he didn't like him and his smug attitude. Sabre whatever has never won a title alone, you need a team to have heart, guts and chemistry and no protractor can ever measure that.

Kane and Toews just get it done in ways that no stat sheet will ever quantify and I hate having to write that. I respect the crap out of both and were I to start my franchise from the ground up today I'd be hard pressed not to take either one of them first. Goddamit anyway.
 
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason

Slap Shot said:
Intangibles? I understand that some very good players have been surrounded by schlock, but trix you're coming off like Richard in Tommy Boy when the one guy said he didn't like him and his smug attitude. Sabre whatever has never won a title alone, you need a team to have heart, guts and chemistry and no protractor can ever measure that.

Kane and Toews just get it done in ways that no stat sheet will ever quantify and I hate having to write that. I respect the crap out of both and were I to start my franchise from the ground up today I'd be hard pressed not to take either one of them first. Goddamit anyway.
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I know of a Hall of Fame college coach in another sport who overtly says he recruits not only for talent and skills but also for intangibles. He has said outright that there are some extremely talented players he will deliberately not recruit if their attitude isn't what he wants on his team, and he has gone so far as to not recruit players because of their parents' attitude on occasion.

Five national championships in seven years seems to indicate he knows what he's doing.



Back to hockey, watching Kane closely, you can see how he elevates those around him by knowing where they like to receive passes and delivering his pass to their sweet spot. Maybe that's an "intangible," maybe that's an "advanced metric," that in theory could be measured and quantified if you were obsessive enough.

Another "intangible" / "advanced metric" can be observed in body language, some great players, when frustrated, you can see it in their posture, other great players, when frustrated, merely become more determined and you can see that in their posture too. I suspect that many of these "intangibles" actually can be measured on a micro level, and that's what many of us are doing subconsciously, because we can see it and notice it even if we cannot always articulate it with measurable precision.
 
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Slap Shot said:
Intangibles? I understand that some very good players have been surrounded by schlock, but trix you're coming off like Richard in Tommy Boy when the one guy said he didn't like him and his smug attitude. Sabre whatever has never won a title alone, you need a team to have heart, guts and chemistry and no protractor can ever measure that.

Kane and Toews just get it done in ways that no stat sheet will ever quantify and I hate having to write that. I respect the crap out of both and were I to start my franchise from the ground up today I'd be hard pressed not to take either one of them first. Goddamit anyway.
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The team gets it done. They play their role well I can't deny that but it's not like they're far and away the best players in their respective positions like some imply.

Also 1980 and college recruiting have little to no relevance to this discussion. We're talking about the marginal differences between the most elite NHL players not college kids who likely never play more than 100 games in the NHL. And I'm not saying intangibles don't matter whatsoever but I don't think that Toews is better than Crosby because of the intangibles, an area in which Crosby is probably better than him anyhow.
 
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trixR4kids said:
The team gets it done. They play their role well I can't deny that but it's not like they're far and away the best players in their respective positions like some imply.

Also 1980 and college recruiting have little to no relevance to this discussion. We're talking about the marginal differences between the most elite NHL players not college kids who likely never play more than 100 games in the NHL. And I'm not saying intangibles don't matter whatsoever but I don't think that Toews is better than Crosby because of the intangibles, an area in which Crosby is probably better than him anyhow.
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I would say there are more than marginal differences between elite players. There's a reason why Kane has 3 Stanley Cups and Kessel has zilch.
 
Dude Love said:
Crawford proves that you don't need an elite goalie to win a Stanley Cup.
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Which is where the intangibles of guys like Toews and Kane make the difference.

And Trix Crosby is a little bitch which negates any intangibles he might otherwise have.
 
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Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason

I'll just put this here:

http://espn.go.com/olympics/winter/2014/icehockey/story/_/id/10333936/sidney-crosby-got-jonathan-toews-ok-accept-canada-captaincy


Not only does this show the respect that Toews gets amongst peers, it also shows why he gets that respect as his response was pitch perfect, diffusing a possible Canadian tabloid controversy as Cindy is still the favorite son up there for many.


And Trixie - no one has said that Kane and Toews are "the best at their positions."
 
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Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason

Jimjamesak said:
I would say there are more than marginal differences between elite players. There's a reason why Kane has 3 Stanley Cups and Kessel has zilch.
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There's more than a marginal difference between the teams they play on. You could put Gretzky on the Leafs and they wouldn't make the playoffs as it currently stands.

slap shot said:
And Trix Crosby is a little ***** which negates any intangibles he might otherwise have.
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What are you 5 years old or a Flyers fan?
 
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Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason

You may want to quote properly there trix, you are making it look like the two passages you cite in post #239 are from the same poster/post and they are most certainly not.
 
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