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NFL 2022-23: How About A Lions vs. Jaguars Super Bowl?

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Don't throw your back out carrying water for the Shield. The NFL will care about your injury just as much as a player's. To that point, I don't have cable but my understanding is that the league's official network has covered this as extensively as I would expect; which is to say, not at all.
https://twitter.com/MikeSielski/stat...AxX5CrPgYdbJhA
Meanwhile Scott Van Pelt is harkening back to a different era of broadcasting echoing Jim McKay at the '72 Olympics in Munich.
 
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I just got a 12-hour instant twitter ban for telling dr drew to "fuck himself with a cactus"

like, I hit send and it was immediate. Wow.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
I just got a 12-hour instant twitter ban for telling dr drew to "**** himself with a cactus"

like, I hit send and it was immediate. Wow.
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Lots of others being blocked for merely asking him to name the others that “dropped suddenly.” No name calling, no swearing, nothing.
 
ticapnews said:
Don't throw your back out carrying water for the Shield. The NFL will care about your injury just as much as a player's. To that point, I don't have cable but my understanding is that the league's official network has covered this as extensively as I would expect; which is to say, not at all.
https://twitter.com/MikeSielski/stat...AxX5CrPgYdbJhA
Meanwhile Scott Van Pelt is harkening back to a different era of broadcasting echoing Jim McKay at the '72 Olympics in Munich.
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Nobody has any idea. I'm watching ESPN at 8:30 am the next morning, and there is no new information what so ever. So while it's fun and all to throw the NFL under the bus because people need to blame someone- they are not the only ones who have no news.

I'm trying to point out that there is nobody to blame, people did the best they could and they still are. The closest to this that has happened while I've been a fan was when Utley broke his neck- given the severity, he could have easily died, but the game went on. So when you can't see what *should* happen when you are distracted by what is going on, it's hard to know what to do. Again, look at your own work, and if someone got accidentally struck in the chest and had a cardiac arrest. What would happen? Would you or your company cancel work? For how long?

There was an explosion at one of our facilities while I was working- people died. Our CEO and president were both very shaken, one went to the site and did his best to help the families. But work had to restart once the debris was cleared. Sadly, that's the reality of life.

That being said, the worst news is not news, so making it 12 hours seems to be promising.
 
It was a freak event that can happen to anybody. You don't have anybody to do CPR on you when it happens and you're dead.
 
MichVandal said:
Nobody has any idea. I'm watching ESPN at 8:30 am the next morning, and there is no new information what so ever. So while it's fun and all to throw the NFL under the bus because people need to blame someone- they are not the only ones who have no news.

I'm trying to point out that there is nobody to blame, people did the best they could and they still are. The closest to this that has happened while I've been a fan was when Utley broke his neck- given the severity, he could have easily died, but the game went on. So when you can't see what *should* happen when you are distracted by what is going on, it's hard to know what to do. Again, look at your own work, and if someone got accidentally struck in the chest and had a cardiac arrest. What would happen? Would you or your company cancel work? For how long?

There was an explosion at one of our facilities while I was working- people died. Our CEO and president were both very shaken, one went to the site and did his best to help the families. But work had to restart once the debris was cleared. Sadly, that's the reality of life.

That being said, the worst news is not news, so making it 12 hours seems to be promising.
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I get what you're saying. BUt you wouldn't ask the people on that shift who watched coworkers die to come back to work and finish their shift. That's the scenario here. These are all guys working the same shift, they watch a teammate have his heart stop on the field. Seemingly a well-loved guy. This isn't a difficult decision. You cancel the game and make it up in a couple days with a wonderful tribute to the kid and his family. You get mega ratings. Everyone cries and hugs. You come out looking like a diamond.

Instead, you've invited union problems, you've insulted a kid (who might still die!), his family, the teams, the staffs, the fanbases, the viewing base, people who hate you already, everyone. This wasn't a "Errr, umm,, well, sir, we need to follow procedure." No, fuck procedure. You say "We're done today. We'll figure it out. Go be with your family, do what you need. We've got this."

it's really, really, really, really, really, really, really easy.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
I get what you're saying. BUt you wouldn't ask the people on that shift who watched coworkers die to come back to work and finish their shift. That's the scenario here. These are all guys working the same shift, they watch a teammate have his heart stop on the field. Seemingly a well-loved guy. This isn't a difficult decision. You cancel the game and make it up in a couple days with a wonderful tribute to the kid and his family. You get mega ratings. Everyone cries and hugs. You come out looking like a diamond.

Instead, you've invited union problems, you've insulted a kid (who might still die!), his family, the teams, the staffs, the fanbases, the viewing base, people who hate you already, everyone. This wasn't a "Errr, umm,, well, sir, we need to follow procedure." No, **** procedure. You say "We're done today. We'll figure it out. Go be with your family, do what you need. We've got this."

it's really, really, really, really, really, really, really easy.
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In hindsight, sure. But live, nobody knew how serious it was.

They didn't tell them or demand them to play. They started with a 5 min warm up, which was quickly agreed on to suspend- by the officials (aka the NFL) and the teams, and then after they learned more- the game was postponed.

Nobody has all of the answers, so they started with what they have done in the past and went from there. In the end, the right decision happened.

You guys are coming at this as if the NFL forced them to restart the game- they didn't. It was the option that happens after an ambulance was taken off the field, and then the decisions progressed as info was learned. And I'm giving the person who proposed to restart the game the benefit of the doubt that they didn't know that his heart stopped on the field- again, only the players and the people working on him right there knew that.

Nobody other than the people immediately around the location knew anything.
 
A reminder that even the players didn't know everything- Stefan Diggs was trying to rally his team to focus and start playing again. He's a teammate to Hamlin.

So it wasn't just the NFL that was trying to restart.

They were trying to progress in a way they thought was right at the time. And it bears repeating that the game was eventually postponed- the game didn't restart, nobody was forced to continue playing. In hindsight, yea, and hour seems like way too long to end it. But they are all just trying to figure out what to do, and even the players didn't have all of "obvious" answers- and they were right there.
 
I don't believe a word that comes out of Troy Vincent's mouth, so if he's loudly denying that they ever told the teams to play then I don't believe him.
 
MichVandal said:
In hindsight, sure. But live, nobody knew how serious it was.

They didn't tell them or demand them to play. They started with a 5 min warm up, which was quickly agreed on to suspend- by the officials (aka the NFL) and the teams, and then after they learned more- the game was postponed.

Nobody has all of the answers, so they started with what they have done in the past and went from there. In the end, the right decision happened.

You guys are coming at this as if the NFL forced them to restart the game- they didn't. It was the option that happens after an ambulance was taken off the field, and then the decisions progressed as info was learned. And I'm giving the person who proposed to restart the game the benefit of the doubt that they didn't know that his heart stopped on the field- again, only the players and the people working on him right there knew that.

Nobody other than the people immediately around the location knew anything.
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General rule: if you use an AED, the game is over.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
General rule: if you use an AED, the game is over.
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Hindsight is 20/20, isn't it?

Especially if the AED was used, and he "woke up" and signaled to the team that he was ok and play on. You can't define something that black and white.

But go ahead and hate how the response happened. Even if the right thing eventually happened.

A follow up question- the Bills went home, and left Hamlin on his own- is that not callous? Should they be faulted for leaving their sickened player? I don't, they are people and are doing the best they can.
 
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Just saw some news that the NFL had a press conference overnight- and the game restart was never going to happen.

edit- and apparently the make up game discussion has not started- the NFL is focused on his health last night and this morning.

Reported by Schefter on ESPN
 
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SJHovey said:
commotio cordis
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Correct. And the timing has to be just right, within milliseconds, to cause this. It happens mostly to young men because of the way the sternum and chest develop, if I have the skeleton details correct, but you get the point.

Years ago, an Elmira College hockey player received an open ice check in the chest at Plattsburgh and when into cardiac arrest. He recovered.

One of those shows at the time which did recreations of emergency situations, I think it was 911, did an episode on this.

A high school lacrosse player on Long Island died when he was struck in the chest with the ball ... during warmups.
 
MichVandal said:
A follow up question- the Bills went home, and left Hamlin on his own- is that not callous? Should they be faulted for leaving their sickened player? I don't, they are people and are doing the best they can.
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I think a few that knew him best stayed behind. Regarding the rest, I don't know how easy it is to board and rebook for like 100 people, and frankly the fewer people hanging around and getting in the way and in general making it a circus atmosphere might be better. Plus, regardless of what happens to the results of Monday's game, they still have this Sunday's game to prepare for (on the usual shortened schedule).
 
French Rage said:
I think a few that knew him best stayed behind. Regarding the rest, I don't know how easy it is to board and rebook for like 100 people, and frankly the fewer people hanging around and getting in the way and in general making it a circus atmosphere might be better. Plus, regardless of what happens to the results of Monday's game, they still have this Sunday's game to prepare for (on the usual shortened schedule).
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My point is that there are plenty of people that can be aimed at for being critical to. But what's the point of doing that?

The game was never restarted, and the focus is now on the player. Why worry so much how it got there?

If people stop watching the NFL on how it was handled, that's fine. It's not as if there have been plenty of events to do that.
 
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In 1971 there was a similar situation to the Hamlin incident towards the end of a Bears-Lions game, but unfortunately Lions WR Chuck Hughes didn't make it. FWIW they finished the final seconds of the game shortly after Hughes was removed via ambulance. Some links provided below have more details, including the radio play-by-play. TV-wise, there was only regional coverage, but brief commentaries on the usual highlight shows. Back in those days, NFL game-day coverage wasn't like it is these days, so you got most of those details after the fact either at halftime on Monday Night Football (via Howard Cosell) or later in the week on "This Week in the NFL" with Pat Summerall and Tom Brookshier. Clips of those two shows are immediately below here, and long form coverage is at the bottom, and probably is the most compelling of the bunch.

The Chuck Hughes Game (Howard Cosell version) - YouTube

1971 Bears at Lions week 6 - YouTube

As a result of the editing of the highlights (roughly 3:00 in on the GOTW clip above), a vicious hit by Bears' MLB Dick Butkus on Lions' WR Charlie Sanders two plays before the Hughes collapse was mistakenly believed by many viewers to have been the incident that claimed Hughes' life (and if you see the hit, you can see why). Butkus would draw hate mail in the pre-Internet days for years because of this misunderstanding, which was particularly sad because it was Butkus who first noticed Hughes had collapsed on his way back to the Lions' huddle, and frantically called to the sidelines for the medical assistance - apparently not unlike Lawrence Taylor's 1985 reaction to breaking Joe Theisman's leg live on MNF.

The Bill Masterton incident early in the expansion era is the only NHL on-ice death I can recall. Sports are a great escape hatch, but every once in awhile they give us a reminder that there are very real risks involved. Hoping and praying for Hamlin's family, that he can live a normal life after.
 
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