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NCHA 2012-13--The final season as we know it!

Re: NCHA 2012-13--The final season as we know it!

mnhockeybuff said:
This brings up the great question of what makes a team viable. You have programs like Marian, Chatham, and Finlandia that have struggled to get wins. Is the common denominator financing? School size? Coaching staff?
Why do players choose St. Scholastica over Finlandia?
I agree with Finfan, Finlandia should be able to field a full team. Looking at past seasons, Finlandia did field a full team. I wondered why the change this year. Through the grapevine (I have a college aged daughter with links to Finlandia) there were some disgruntled players with the new coach so they lost half the team. Sometimes that happens. Both Marian and Finlandia had coaching changes this year. Both were hired at the same time (I think Kivi was actually hired after Syrowick). But Kivi looks like she was successful in recruiting. Does it matter that Kivi was a player at a good DIII school while Syrowick was a player at a low-level DIII?
Marian is my personal favorite this year (in addition to St. Scholastica) so I definitely think that some of these bottom bracket teams have potential and can make something of themselves! I'd love to be surprised by Finlandia, but I'm not sure a new coach (regardless of how good) will have that much of an impact.
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Finlandia was at least competitive and challenged teams their first few years. You go back to 05-06 they beat several Miac Schools, beat chatham 9-0, beat River Falls...they have steadily gone downhill fast to the point where I don't think they've won a game in 2 years. Hopefully this coach can turn things around in the future. With the WIAC schools leaving the NCHA, it really opens the door for the leftover teams with the autobid available to them.
 
Re: NCHA 2012-13--The final season as we know it!

mnhockeybuff said:
This brings up the great question of what makes a team viable. You have programs like Marian, Chatham, and Finlandia that have struggled to get wins. Is the common denominator financing? School size? Coaching staff?
Why do players choose St. Scholastica over Finlandia?
I agree with Finfan, Finlandia should be able to field a full team. Looking at past seasons, Finlandia did field a full team. I wondered why the change this year. Through the grapevine (I have a college aged daughter with links to Finlandia) there were some disgruntled players with the new coach so they lost half the team. Sometimes that happens. Both Marian and Finlandia had coaching changes this year. Both were hired at the same time (I think Kivi was actually hired after Syrowick). But Kivi looks like she was successful in recruiting. Does it matter that Kivi was a player at a good DIII school while Syrowick was a player at a low-level DIII?
Marian is my personal favorite this year (in addition to St. Scholastica) so I definitely think that some of these bottom bracket teams have potential and can make something of themselves! I'd love to be surprised by Finlandia, but I'm not sure a new coach (regardless of how good) will have that much of an impact.
Click to expand...

I agree the Marian coach and team are off to a good start, however your analysis of Finlandia's short bench issue is slightly off. My grapevine tells me that increased educational demands, personal issues away from hockey, graduating players and insufficent recruiting created the shortfall. As you are aware, most quality players are recruited in their junior and senior years of high school, as was the case for three of the four freshmen at Finlandia. The four was a walk-on with experience on a Detroit area "AAA" club. The former coach had addressed the numbers to be lost with the graduating class, but could not foresee the loss of players to educational demands and personal issues outside of hockey. To expect the new coach to recruit "quality" players in the few months prior to the fall is almost impossible. I believe most players have started their application and financial aid requests by late spring. I would be curious to find out how many of the Marian freshmen had already committed there before the coaching change. None of these factors relate to where either of these new coaches played their hockey. Coach Syrowick and Coach Kivi will have a full year to gather recruits for the 2013-14 season and I am confident they will both do well.
 
gojackets, I'm not sure if I agree with the assessment that Finlandia started out competitive. In 2005-06 they beat Chatham? Who didn't? I looked up the 2005-06 history and the teams*Finlandia beat had losing seasons (St. Bens, Hamline). Yes, they beat RF but back then RF was not the team it was now. 2006-07 season they didn't win a single game (a few ties to other teams with high losing seasons). 2007-08 again their wins are to "lesser" teams. Etc.

Finfan,*It sounds like you may be an insider at Finlandia with the details you've given. I wish the best for Finlandia but from what I've heard from my daughter there was quite a bit of turmoil over the new coach and several players quit and others had to be begged to come back to the team based on issues with the new coach (which I believe have been discussed on the forum previously). But you seem to be the Finlandia insider so who knows?

If three of the four players were recruited during their junior year and one was a walk-on then that means the new coach recruited zero players between April and August. My point is that, based on my daughter's experience, who was still talking to schools during the summer, I find this odd. And it makes me wonder why Finlandia has trouble recruiting players. I'm not saying it has anything to do with the coach but I'm wondering if overall school perception and the background of the coach plays an issue. I personally would prefer to play for someone with better playing experience, but males may have a different perception of coaching ability.

I'm not trying to pick on Finlandia or any other team.* Nor do I think it is productive to continue this discussion.* Someone asked if teams like Finlandia were really viable if they can't fill a bench.**I'm asking what makes a team viable? How are these other teams able to recruit so many players, and good players, and teams like Marian and Finlandia have struggled? I'm wondering what other think about the viability of teams. Is it money? Is it a winning season? St. Scholastica didn't seem to have any issue recruiting even before they'd played a game. Why is that?

I too hope Finlandia and Marian have great seasons and that their coaches can put them on the winning track.*

One a side note, there are some interesting match-ups this weekend. Looking forward to the Marian v. St. Norbert's game.
 
Re: NCHA 2012-13--The final season as we know it!

Finfan said:
I agree the Marian coach and team are off to a good start, however your analysis of Finlandia's short bench issue is slightly off. My grapevine tells me that increased educational demands, personal issues away from hockey, graduating players and insufficent recruiting created the shortfall. As you are aware, most quality players are recruited in their junior and senior years of high school, as was the case for three of the four freshmen at Finlandia. The four was a walk-on with experience on a Detroit area "AAA" club. The former coach had addressed the numbers to be lost with the graduating class, but could not foresee the loss of players to educational demands and personal issues outside of hockey. To expect the new coach to recruit "quality" players in the few months prior to the fall is almost impossible. I believe most players have started their application and financial aid requests by late spring. I would be curious to find out how many of the Marian freshmen had already committed there before the coaching change. None of these factors relate to where either of these new coaches played their hockey. Coach Syrowick and Coach Kivi will have a full year to gather recruits for the 2013-14 season and I am confident they will both do well.
Click to expand...

I like your Post Finfan.
 
Re: NCHA 2012-13--The final season as we know it!

mnhockeybuff said:
Marian and Finlandia have struggled? I'm wondering what other think about the viability of teams. Is it money? Is it a winning season? St. Scholastica didn't seem to have any issue recruiting even before they'd played a game. Why is that?

I too hope Finlandia and Marian have great seasons and that their coaches can put them on the winning track.*

One a side note, there are some interesting match-ups this weekend. Looking forward to the Marian v. St. Norbert's game.
Click to expand...

St Scholastica had a top women's club team before they started the D3 program...so that could have had an affect on the immediate success. Both SNC and CSS hired their coach at least a full year before they planned on starting up their teams. Which gave them plenty of time to recruit, plan, and scout.

I'm not sure what affect the men's team would have on the draw to the women's team either. Obviously St. Norbert's men's team is exceptional--i'm sure the fact that its well known as a good d-3 men's school helped in the recruiting for the women's team, CSS's men have been better as of late, which could have had an impact. You could think location as well. I don't know how many girls want to willingly go to Hancock for school...whats Michigan Girls Hockey like in the UP??
 
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Re: NCHA 2012-13--The final season as we know it!

gojackets said:
St Scholastica had a top women's club team before they started the D3 program...so that could have had an affect on the immediate success. Both SNC and CSS hired their coach at least a full year before they planned on starting up their teams. Which gave them plenty of time to recruit, plan, and scout.

I'm not sure what affect the men's team would have on the draw to the women's team either. Obviously St. Norbert's men's team is exceptional--i'm sure the fact that its well known as a good d-3 men's school helped in the recruiting for the women's team, CSS's men have been better as of late, which could have had an impact. You could think location as well. I don't know how many girls want to willingly go to Hancock for school...whats Michigan Girls Hockey like in the UP??
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I suppose the prominence of girls hockey has a huge impact on recruitment. I'm not sure what it's like in the UP, but I'm assuming there isn't much, especially compared with Minnesota. Recruiting from lower Michigan might have been a possibility a few years ago but with the introduction of Adrian's women's team, I'm sure that had a significant impact. Adrian seems to recruit a lot from the girls hockey clubs in lower Michigan.
 
Re: NCHA 2012-13--The final season as we know it!

mnhockeybuff said:
I suppose the prominence of girls hockey has a huge impact on recruitment. I'm not sure what it's like in the UP, but I'm assuming there isn't much, especially compared with Minnesota. Recruiting from lower Michigan might have been a possibility a few years ago but with the introduction of Adrian's women's team, I'm sure that had a significant impact. Adrian seems to recruit a lot from the girls hockey clubs in lower Michigan.
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Very accurate GoJackets and mnhockeybuff. The U.P. does not have a "AAA" or high school program. It has produced an occasional D-1 or D-111 player every couple of years. I know that the inaugural team at Finlandia was greatly influenced by Detroit area players including their current coach. There was a local "AAA" team in place at that time as well. There is currently a strong Tier II National Bound team in Houghton that finished second in Nationals, which should provide a couple of players in the next year or two. The location of the school is a consideration which brings us back to my original post. Would a player rather watch on a roster of many or play on a roster of few? Be recognized by professors as a number or known by first name? I am not being negative about the larger institutions with thriving hockey programs, but merely pointing out, to some the school with 500 and some students, many sports and located in peaceful Hancock might be the answer.
 
Re: NCHA 2012-13--The final season as we know it!

Mnhockeybuff,

You raised the question of why Finlandia has trouble recruiting. I know when my daughter was looking at schools, Finlandia was ruled out when we found out she would have to fly Denver to Chicago to Green Bay then get on a puddle jumper to the upper peninsula. Finlandia priced itself out of a player from the lower states. For girls from Michigan it is probably no big deal but for us, location was a deal breaker.
 
Re: NCHA 2012-13--The final season as we know it!

This weekends results:

Code: 
Friday, November 16:
  Finlandia          1 at Adrian            13 NH      Box   7:00 pm ET
  Concordia (WI)     0 at Wis-Superior       4 NH      Box   7:00 pm CT
  Lake Forest        2 at Wis-Stevens Pt.    2 NH  OT  Box   7:00 pm CT
  Wis-Eau Claire     1 at Wis-River Falls    1 NH  OT  Box   7:05 pm CT

Saturday, November 17:
  Finlandia          0 at Adrian             7 NH      Box   2:00 pm ET
  Concordia (WI)     0 at Wis-Superior       5 NH      Box   2:00 pm CT
  Lake Forest        1 at Wis-Stevens Pt.    1 NH  OT  Box   2:30 pm CT
  St. Norbert        1 at Marian             1 NH  OT  Box   4:00 pm CT
  Wis-River Falls    2 at Wis-Eau Claire     2 NH  OT  Box   7:00 pm CT

Sunday, November 18:
  Adrian             5 at Chatham            0 NC      Box   2:00 pm ET
  Marian             3 at St. Norbert        4 NH      Box   4:00 pm CT

The only teams to sweep are Superior and Adrian!

Shocker has to go to the RF/EC series. What's with Eau Claire this year...are they for real or is it a hot goaltender? River Falls didn't exactly dominate the game statwise on Friday, but did more on Saturday.

Eau Claire gets dominated by Bethel, gets a win on Power Plays against Superior, swept by Adrian...hard to figure them out at this point.

Stevens Point is currently in first...however, thats based on their wins over CUW and Finlandia. River Falls and Superior are in a 3-way tie for 2nd.

All the ties should show how equal/competitive this league is!
 
Re: NCHA 2012-13--The final season as we know it!

Friday Nov. 30 Final

UW-Stevens Point 2
UW-River Falls 3

Concordia-Wis. 3
Finlandia 0

Adrian 4
St. Scholastica 2

Saturday, Dec. 1

Concordia-Wis.
Finlandia 1:00 PM

St. Norbert
UW-Eau Claire 2:00 PM

UW-Stevens Point
UW-River Falls 2:05 PM

Adrian
St. Scholastica 7:00 PM

Marian
Lake Forest 7:00 PM

Sunday, Dec. 2
Marian
Lake Forest 2:00 PM

St. Norbert
UW-Eau Claire 2:00 PM

Any predictions for the rest of the weekend?
 
Re: NCHA 2012-13--The final season as we know it!

Saturday, Dec. 1

Concordia-Wis.
Finlandia

St. Norbert
UW-Eau Claire

UW-Stevens Point
UW-River Falls

Adrian
St. Scholastica

Marian
Lake Forest

Sunday, Dec. 2
Marian
Lake Forest

St. Norbert
UW-Eau Claire
 
Re: NCHA 2012-13--The final season as we know it!

Does someone want to comment on River Falls? It appears to me that Cranston's decision to play the freshmen back-up goaltender in important games has cost them any chance at an at-large bid if they don't win the Peter's Cup. It doesn't help the situation when he takes her out midway through the third period yesterday when they are down 4-2. He played her in what was a huge game in Superior, and now this loss to Stevens Point. Any logic behind the move?? I don't mind it though, as it puts Superior in the driver seat for the league :) All they have to do is win out and they win! That should be easy enough....yah right :)
 
Re: NCHA 2012-13--The final season as we know it!

Please don't forget the ladies from Adrian. They are also in the driver's seat and just have to win out. Sounds like there are more than one driver in this race. It should make for an enjoyable rest of the season.
 
Re: NCHA 2012-13--The final season as we know it!

AC Bulldog said:
Please don't forget the ladies from Adrian. They are also in the driver's seat and just have to win out. Sounds like there are more than one driver in this race. It should make for an enjoyable rest of the season.
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Adrian, UWS, UWRF, and now UWSP are all in the hunt for title still.

River Falls should at minimum go 10-2 in their remaining conference games--(6 wins vs Fin, CUW, and Mar...4/6 against CSS,SNC, LFC)..probably 11-1
UWS shoud get 8 wins agains LFC, CSS, Mar, and Fin. SNC will be a tough road series for UWS...but the big showdown will be Jan 11/12 in Adrian(please request video for those games :)

Adrian seems to do well on the road, despite all the travel. Next week at Norbert will be a challenge, if they get through that unscathed again it might all come down to Jan 11/12. The last series against Marian could be challenging as the Marian goaltender picks up steam all season and lots of travel for the Bulldogs leading into it.

Stevens Point has the hardest road ahead and I predict they will start to lose ground on the top 3.

The dark horse in all of this is Eau Claire...they've put up some big wins/ties.

The other question...what happened to CSS?
 
Re: NCHA 2012-13--The final season as we know it!

gojackets said:
Does someone want to comment on River Falls? It appears to me that Cranston's decision to play the freshmen back-up goaltender in important games has cost them any chance at an at-large bid if they don't win the Peter's Cup.
Click to expand...

Replace River Falls with Superior and Cranston with Laughlin!
 
Re: NCHA 2012-13--The final season as we know it!

At least if Adrian wins the NCHA regular season and Superior finishes second, Superior still will host the Peter's cup finals!
 
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