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NCAA Selection Show

Re: NCAA Selection Show

I don't recall the physical play being an issue but they stifling forecheck sure was. I remember eeyore pointing out at the time also that CU moved the puck up ice quickly which denied MN the chance to counter attack.

I agree with the forecheck but a lot of the Gopher fans especially made many comments to the effect of "you wouldn't get away with that in the WCHA". I really thought Clarkson played a different style than the two big dogs in 2014, but in 2017 I thought the teams had very similar styles of play.
 
Re: NCAA Selection Show

I believe Muzzerall holds the records for most goals scored & she played for a coach who would not allow her team to outscore an opponent by more than 10 goals so her toal is probably half what it could be. The great players would now be facing much stiffer competition. Still great but not astronomically better than average.

Blackbeard is talking about college players from 8 to 10 years ago - kids born in the 1990s. Muzerall was born in the 1970s.
 
Re: NCAA Selection Show

What's the TV/streaming options for the quarterfinals? I know the Big Ten Network has the Frozen Four. Is NCAA Productions going to be doing the quarterfinal games?
 
Re: NCAA Selection Show

What's the TV/streaming options for the quarterfinals? I know the Big Ten Network has the Frozen Four. Is NCAA Productions going to be doing the quarterfinal games?

I'm not positive but I am almost certain whatever it is will be free. I know for sure BC's will be but I think it's a quarterfinals requirement.
 
Re: NCAA Selection Show

I agree with the forecheck but a lot of the Gopher fans especially made many comments to the effect of "you wouldn't get away with that in the WCHA".

I don't remember a single Gopher fan saying that. What a lot of them said is that Clarkson was a bigger, stronger team than that particular edition of Minnesota, and that it helped them win battles along the boards and in front of the net. The main comment that any of us made about the officiating was the way the refs ignored the very blatant goaltender interference on the second Clarkson goal. I suppose that that could be taken as a complaint that Clarkson wouldn't have gotten away with their physical play in the WCHA, but it's a pretty narrow complaint.

As ne7minder said, I'm strongly of the opinion that none of that was the big difference maker in that game. What was so striking was the way that, when Clarkson gained control of the puck, they didn't screw around getting it into the offensive zone. There was pretty much no lateral movement in the neutral zone, just moving the puck forwards as quickly as possible. It negated the most fundamental identity that Minnesota had: their relentless backcheck that allowed them to play offense with a set of very fast forwards that lived very deep in the offensive zone when the Gophers had the puck. It was some brilliant coaching by Clarkson's staff. While that game ended up being so close that you could point to any number of things as being "the difference" between victory and defeat, that's the one that really stood out to me.
 
Re: NCAA Selection Show

I'm not positive but I am almost certain whatever it is will be free. I know for sure BC's will be but I think it's a quarterfinals requirement.

Well, I hope so. I want to watch the Clarkson game (nothing on their website yet) before driving to Hobart for the D3 men's playoff game.
 
Perhaps some day, we'll have a real national tournament, where Minnesota would go to Colgate, and Northeastern would travel to Madison. I doubt I'll see that again in my lifetime. But we're women's hockey fans, so we'll take what we're given and be content with it. Nah... :D

Aren't there matchups in the first round that the NCAA should have avoided? Is this not possible?

So we have:

1 Team Canada
2 Popcorn Skunk
3 Colgate
4 BC
5 OSU
6 NE
7 UM
8 Mercyhurst

Are some implying the seeding isn't true?
 
Re: NCAA Selection Show

I agree with the forecheck but a lot of the Gopher fans especially made many comments to the effect of "you wouldn't get away with that in the WCHA". I really thought Clarkson played a different style than the two big dogs in 2014, but in 2017 I thought the teams had very similar styles of play.
IMO, it was the speed/aggressiveness of the Clarkson forecheck, more so than physicality, that caused UM problems and turned the game.
 
Re: NCAA Selection Show

In reading the comments about players talent vs. game changing, and what the refs call.......as I watched the games this weekend, I tried to imagine anyone of the teams playing Team USA or Team Canada......am I wrong in thinking that both National teams would win 4 out of 5 if they played anyone of the 8 playoff teams? Obviously it could be argued pro vs amateur but we're not at that level yet......all 8 programs have strict on and off ice routines just like the National teams, so what creates the separation in play? Then can you imagine if any of the upcoming games had the same amount of physical play that USA vs. Canada did? Probably 4 on 4 all game.....IMHO, talent level and style of play in the NCAA is about the same level as OAR vs Switzerland.....good hockey and talented players.......am I way off base here?
 
Re: NCAA Selection Show

am I way off base here?

Yes. Not in your assessment of whether any college team would win against the U.S. or Canadian Olympic teams; if anything, your estimate of 1 time in 5 is high. It's your analysis of why that's true that's very, very wrong.

It has nothing to do with declining talent in the game. It's that there are two of those teams who select the best players from among 35 Division 1 teams, with no arbitrary limit of how many years each of those players can remain on the team. The national teams are much better, because they are selecting vastly fewer players from a much larger pool of talent. That's true whether or not any of the leagues they play in can really be considered professional. Minnesota would be a much better team if Lee Stecklein and Dani Cameranesi hadn't run out of eligibility.

There aren't as many current NCAA players on the national team rosters as there used to be, but that's not really surprising. The human body doesn't fully mature until your mid-20s, so athletes are improving physically even after they've left college, as well as gaining more experience. Even after one's physical peak, the decline starts slowly and experienced is still gained. The mix varies from one sport to the next, but a hockey player's peak ability is somewhere in the mid-to-late 20s. (It's probably a bit earlier for women relative to men, and it's a bit later for defensemen relative to forwards.) As the talent pool of women's hockey players has expanded, there are more national team caliber players in this older age group, and fewer current NCAA players that can compete with them right now, but that will as they age towards their peak.
 
Yes. Not in your assessment of whether any college team would win against the U.S. or Canadian Olympic teams; if anything, your estimate of 1 time in 5 is high. It's your analysis of why that's true that's very, very wrong.

It has nothing to do with declining talent in the game. It's that there are two of those teams who select the best players from among 35 Division 1 teams, with no arbitrary limit of how many years each of those players can remain on the team. The national teams are much better, because they are selecting vastly fewer players from a much larger pool of talent. That's true whether or not any of the leagues they play in can really be considered professional. Minnesota would be a much better team if Lee Stecklein and Dani Cameranesi hadn't run out of eligibility.

There aren't as many current NCAA players on the national team rosters as there used to be, but that's not really surprising. The human body doesn't fully mature until your mid-20s, so athletes are improving physically even after they've left college, as well as gaining more experience. Even after one's physical peak, the decline starts slowly and experienced is still gained. The mix varies from one sport to the next, but a hockey player's peak ability is somewhere in the mid-to-late 20s. (It's probably a bit earlier for women relative to men, and it's a bit later for defensemen relative to forwards.) As the talent pool of women's hockey players has expanded, there are more national team caliber players in this older age group, and fewer current NCAA players that can compete with them right now, but that will as they age towards their peak.

My body is still "maturing," just not in a good way anymore. :(
 
Re: NCAA Selection Show

Real good point Still Eeyore on being able to select 35 primo from an already subgroup of quality players.....and then the time extension allowed. I think I'm just jonsing for the women to be able to offer that quality of competition should the average Joe happen upon a game......
 
Re: NCAA Selection Show

Aren't there matchups in the first round that the NCAA should have avoided? Is this not possible?

So we have:

1 Team Canada
2 Popcorn Skunk
3 Colgate
4 BC
5 OSU
6 NE
7 UM
8 Mercyhurst

Are some implying the seeding isn't true?

If the NCAA were going to seed based on PWR
1 Clarkson / 8 St. Lawrence
2 Wisconsin / 7 cornell
3 Colgate / 6 Ohio State
4 Boston College / 5 Minnesota

But then if you toss in the tourney winners You would punish SLU but send Mercyhurst to Clarkson
 
Re: NCAA Selection Show

plenty of cheaper hotels outside Boston. Needham and Waltham are only 10-15 minutes out and no Mass Pike fee. Sheraton Needham now on booking.com for $103
Trust me, I would never skip a trip to Boston over hotel costs. I've stayed both in the city and in the surrounding areas. Always found an option that fit that trip's budget. Keep reading.

I think your sarcasm detection meter was broken... :eek:
I'm guessing QR's upgraded meter is now installed.;)

For anyone who didn't catch the reference: I'm of the very strong opinion that there should be no intra-conference match-ups in the first round of the NCAA tournament. That is, in fact, one of the criteria for the Men's Tournament. But for many years on the Women's side, the need to reduce air travel expenses has been treated as all-important. The burden of that policy has fallen mostly on WCHA teams. Year after year, our teams are forced to participate in a "Play-In Game" before the winner finally gets a National Game in the FF. This year circumstances were kind to the Buckeyes, as we dodged that bullet on the first try. A match-up against BC is everything we could want in an NCAA game.

Anyhow, my sarcastic logic was that if we can't have an appropriate bracket due to airfare costs, then maybe we can't have the appropriate host teams due to hotel costs. Hope that clears things up...
 
Re: NCAA Selection Show

Not sure I can get wound up about bracket integrity for the NCAA quarter finals when the location of the conference tournaments and Frozen Four can have a bigger impact.

Minnesota (#3 of 7) and Northeastern (#4 of 9) lost all games against their conference tournament opponents away from home ice this year (Ohio State / Wisconsin, Maine / UConn).
I'd agree that Minnesota got a boost from playing at home this weekend and may not have won at another site. However, the Gophers did lose tournament games on home ice to Wisconsin (2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2016) and UMD (2010 - twice, 2017), while defeating the Bulldogs at UMD (2012, 2017). I think teams have to just go play. If they let themselves think that location is paramount, then they're beaten before the game starts.
 
Re: NCAA Selection Show

If the NCAA were going to seed based on PWR
1 Clarkson / 8 St. Lawrence
2 Wisconsin / 7 cornell
3 Colgate / 6 Ohio State
4 Boston College / 5 Minnesota

But then if you toss in the tourney winners You would punish SLU but send Mercyhurst to Clarkson

The auto bids really hurt this season. I would argue that Cornell and SLU are on par with both OSU and Minnesota. I'm not a math expert, but I'd like to see where SLU would have ended up in the PWR if not for the 5 losses to Clarkson. In a 16 team tournament the auto bids hurt a bit, but I think it really hurt in this particular tournament. But, it is what it is. All the teams know the rules when they start the season.
 
Re: NCAA Selection Show

The auto bids really hurt this season. I would argue that Cornell and SLU are on par with both OSU and Minnesota. I'm not a math expert, but I'd like to see where SLU would have ended up in the PWR if not for the 5 losses to Clarkson. In a 16 team tournament the auto bids hurt a bit, but I think it really hurt in this particular tournament. But, it is what it is. All the teams know the rules when they start the season.

I don't think there are 16 teams that can honestly claim a place in the finals. But, particularly because of the auto-bids, I could see a 12 team format with the bottom teams playing at 5-8 to advance. This would allow the auto-bid teams, the bubble teams and a couple of the nearly made it teams to prove which deserve to be there. I assume fans of the 13th ranked teams would still argue they got shafted but I suspect they would get less sympathy.

I admit to being too lazy to look but I suspect someone(s) here can answer. Has an PWR unqualified auto-bid team ever won a tournament game?
 
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