MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!

[The Rube]

Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!

The whining about political correctness is worse than political correctness, but I have no problem with a comedian making a joke about anything. If they want to punch down and make fun of powerless people, and if their braindead audience thinks that's hurr hurr funny, so be it. Let the marketplace decide.

But if righties want to pretend PC is a disease of the left, they are deliberately ignoring the screaming outrage that's provoked when somebody challenges their sacred cows. Try suggesting we dump the anthem before sporting events or the prayer before Senate proceedings and you'll hear from some real snowflakes.

I pretty much live by Carlin's line (which Gottfried quoted) is "Find the line, and deliberately cross it." I'll paraphrase Lampenelli from the doc, where she said "I had people in wheelchairs write letters to me, asking why I don't make wheelchair jokes. What, we can't make fun of ourselves?" They actually were kind of hurt that they weren't treated to the same "abuse" as other groups. That's where I stand. You want to be equal with everyone else? Then I'll insult you (in a fun, poking manner) like everyone else. I will not treat you in a special way.

Jim: that is a great post, and it's understandable. However, trying to relate something to China (or other oppressive governments) does miss the point a little. This is America, the land of free speech (which this doc DOES address compared to other countries that ban hate speech; think Germany and anything Nazi). If we start determining what is "free speech" and what is not....ugh. And we are on our way.

The movie DOES bring up Westboro. Obviously, all involved condemned their speech, BUT all defended their right to say it. And, as any sensible person that hears Westboro's words....they make the opposition look so much better.

 

[Kepler]

Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!

The movie DOES bring up Westboro. Obviously, all involved condemned their speech, BUT all defended their right to say it. And, as any sensible person that hears Westboro's words....they make the opposition look so much better.

I follow this rule for comedy as well. The amateur "comics" who post MRA "jokes" about rape should be encouraged -- Trump making fun of the handicapped should be encouraged -- they are self-identifying as scum.

The idea of "you want to be treated equal?" is however of limited applicability. First off, nobody's asking you to treat them equal -- they ARE equal, and if you don't get that it's not on them. Secondly, a group like say rape victims or Holocaust survivors aren't insisting on anything, they're suffering. If you choose to exploit their circumstances to show how fearless a satirist you are, you are the one dragging them into a political situation. They never asked for it, and now you're compounding their suffering.

I'm saying you have the right to do it; but don't think you're anything more than just a selfish dick.

But the biggest problem here is that 99% of the people who make punch-down "jokes" are stupid, and stupid people are only funny to other stupid people. The amazing thing about Carlin is not that he could make a rape joke, it's that he could make a funny rape joke. The yokels at the local RNC chapter can't.

 

[Jimjamesak]

I pretty much live by Carlin's line (which Gottfried quoted) is "Find the line, and deliberately cross it." I'll paraphrase Lampenelli from the doc, where she said "I had people in wheelchairs write letters to me, asking why I don't make wheelchair jokes. What, we can't make fun of ourselves?" They actually were kind of hurt that they weren't treated to the same "abuse" as other groups. That's where I stand. You want to be equal with everyone else? Then I'll insult you (in a fun, poking manner) like everyone else. I will not treat you in a special way.

Jim: that is a great post, and it's understandable. However, trying to relate something to China (or other oppressive governments) does miss the point a little. This is America, the land of free speech (which this doc DOES address compared to other countries that ban hate speech; think Germany and anything Nazi). If we start determining what is "free speech" and what is not....ugh. And we are on our way.

The movie DOES bring up Westboro. Obviously, all involved condemned their speech, BUT all defended their right to say it. And, as any sensible person that hears Westboro's words....they make the opposition look so much better.

Free speech is great, just don't act all butthurt when someone else uses their free speech to combat yours.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!

The whining about political correctness is worse than political correctness, but I have no problem with a comedian making a joke about anything. If they want to punch down and make fun of powerless people, and if their braindead audience thinks that's hurr hurr funny, so be it. Let the marketplace decide.

But if righties want to pretend PC is a disease of the left, they are deliberately ignoring the screaming outrage that's provoked when somebody challenges their sacred cows. Try suggesting we dump the anthem before sporting events or the prayer before Senate proceedings and you'll hear from some real snowflakes.

This

I pretty much live by Carlin's line (which Gottfried quoted) is "Find the line, and deliberately cross it."

Twitch Boy, when at MTU, used to say, "Here's the line - I pick it up and move it - then I cross it."

 

[Kepler]

Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!

Free speech is great, just don't act all butthurt when someone else uses their free speech to combat yours.

But... but... religious FREEDUMB!!!

 

[Handyman]

Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!

I follow this rule for comedy as well. The amateur "comics" who post MRA "jokes" about rape should be encouraged -- Trump making fun of the handicapped should be encouraged -- they are self-identifying as scum.

The idea of "you want to be treated equal?" is however of limited applicability. First off, nobody's asking you to treat them equal -- they ARE equal, and if you don't get that it's not on them. Secondly, a group like say rape victims or Holocaust survivors aren't insisting on anything, they're suffering. If you choose to exploit their circumstances to show how fearless a satirist you are, you are the one dragging them into a political situation. They never asked for it, and now you're compounding their suffering.

I'm saying you have the right to do it; but don't think you're anything more than just a selfish dick.

But the biggest problem here is that 99% of the people who make punch-down "jokes" are stupid, and stupid people are only funny to other stupid people. The amazing thing about Carlin is not that he could make a rape joke, it's that he could make a funny rape joke. The yokels at the local RNC chapter can't.

I am sorry but your posts on this subject are pretty asinine considering some of the things you say about Righties. (which as you know I agree with ) Everything you are condemning the "stupid comics" for is exactly what you do yourself. You dont get to have it both ways.

There is no sacred cows...if everyone is truly equal then they have to accept the fact sometimes they will be the butt of the joke. We need to walk away from the overly PC culture because it is getting ridiculous. College campuses are exactly what happens when you let PC run amok.

 

[Handyman]

Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!

Free speech is great, just don't act all butthurt when someone else uses their free speech to combat yours.

Most people dont...unless people are accusing them of something they arent doing. You may not like what Lisa Lampanelli has to say but she isnt being racist because she attacks everyone equally. That is the point of what she is doing. Don Rickles is the same way...he has no sacred cows he mocks everyone ESPECIALLY the people and cultures he knows and is a part of. It is by pointing out the absurdity of everyone that makes us all equal.

See the problem isnt free speech, it is taste. You have the right to not like what someone says as much as I have the right to like it. Mocking those (or in Kepler's case completely talking down about) the people who enjoy it makes you just as discriminatory and "Hurr Durr" as the comics you are going after. (not you specifically)

 

[Kepler]

Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!

I am sorry but your posts on this subject are pretty asinine considering some of the things you say about Righties. (which as you know I agree with ) Everything you are condemning the "stupid comics" for is exactly what you do yourself.

In my heart, I know I'm funny.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Most people dont...unless people are accusing them of something they arent doing. You may not like what Lisa Lampanelli has to say but she isnt being racist because she attacks everyone equally. That is the point of what she is doing. Don Rickles is the same way...he has no sacred cows he mocks everyone ESPECIALLY the people and cultures he knows and is a part of. It is by pointing out the absurdity of everyone that makes us all equal.

See the problem isnt free speech, it is taste. You have the right to not like what someone says as much as I have the right to like it. Mocking those (or in Kepler's case completely talking down about) the people who enjoy it makes you just as discriminatory and "Hurr Durr" as the comics you are going after. (not you specifically)

I'm more relating to the movie and it's message. Like the review I quoted and linked, it's a one sided message. Look at who is featured in the movie:

Penn Jillette: A white, male, atheist, libertarian and self proclaimed skeptic.

Gilbert Gottfried: A white, male, Jewish, libertarian who has been fired from various roles due to jokes he has made.

Adam Carolla: A white, male, atheist/agnostic, libertarian who has been the subject of many controversies including losing affiliates for jokes he's made.

Jim Norton: A white, male, atheist, libertarian/Republican who has been the subject of numerous controversies due to remarks he's made.

Are we sensing a pattern here? Kep is right, this is mostly MRA type white guys who are upset that people are calling out their BS. There's not anything "edgy" in saying "all Hawaiians are dumb" or "sex tours and Pacqiao are all the Philippines have." They're just dumb. Sure some people find it funny but don't act all hurt when somebody says "that's offensive."

Basically, you have Freedom of Speech, just not Freedom from consequences.

 

[The Rube]

Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!

Free speech is great, just don't act all butthurt when someone else uses their free speech to combat yours.

Agreed. And we've lost sight of that.

It's comedy (or at least an attempt at it). Some comics may not even truly believe in some of the jokes that they do, but they know that it's a good gag. They see an opening, and they take it.

Jim: you forgot about the black female comic (don't recall her name) that was also prominently featured.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!

I thought sex tours were why loser white men traveled to Manila.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Agreed. And we've lost sight of that.

It's comedy (or at least an attempt at it). Some comics may not even truly believe in some of the jokes that they do, but they know that it's a good gag. They see an opening, and they take it.

Jim: you forgot about the black female comic (don't recall her name) that was also prominently featured.

It's mostly edgy for the sake of being edgy. And it's not really edgy, it's just dumb. They think they're Carlin or Hicks or Pryor and in reality they're just dumb.

Part of evolving as a society is people pointing out things that may have acceptable aren't very acceptable. The problem is that these guys don't understand that cuts both ways.

 

[The Rube]

Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!

It's mostly edgy for the sake of being edgy. And it's not really edgy, it's just dumb. They think they're Carlin or Hicks or Pryor and in reality they're just dumb.

Part of evolving as a society is people pointing out things that may have acceptable aren't very acceptable. The problem is that these guys don't understand that cuts both ways.

The counter argument (which was pointed out), is that the audience KNOWS what to expect, and still go. I watched a David Cross special a while ago. He's a tremendously clever and abrasive comic, for those that don't know. One person got up and walked out due to a joke. He flat out said, (paraphrasing) "There are hundreds of my clips on youtube, the internet, etc, and you're SURPRISED and offended at my jokes? Do some research before you buy a ticket! You know I make offensive jokes!"

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!

I'm not seeing any real examples of free speech actually being infringed upon.

 

[The Rube]

Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!

I'm not seeing any real examples of free speech actually being infringed upon.

It's not the free speech, it's the consequences. That part bothers me. As has been mentioned, people's lives/careers have been ruined, despite their right for free speech. The people preaching tolerance are intolerant, and have affected others' courses of action, so to speak.

 

[unofan]

It's not the free speech, it's the consequences. That part bothers me. As has been mentioned, people's lives/careers have been ruined, despite their right for free speech. The people preaching tolerance are intolerant, and have affected others' courses of action, so to speak.

How is that not the marketplace of ideas doing exactly what it's supposed to do?

 

[The Rube]

Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!

How is that not the marketplace of ideas doing exactly what it's supposed to do?

I have a problem of "Be tolerant of other ideas....unless I disagree with you" which is what is happening nowadays. Either you're tolerant, or you're not. Doesn't matter the opinion. You CAN disagree and acknowledge a different opinion. You don't have to respect it, and you certainly don't have to be a part of the audience of that opinion. So, if you don't like anti-religion jokes, don't go to a David Cross show. Just sayin'.

In the doc, there was a play mentioned, and it was mentioned that the play was SUPPOSED to make people offended. Yet, some "offended" still went, just to yell "I'm offended!"

WHY GO?! Seriously? It's bullsh*

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!

It's not the free speech, it's the consequences. That part bothers me. As has been mentioned, people's lives/careers have been ruined, despite their right for free speech. The people preaching tolerance are intolerant, and have affected others' courses of action, so to speak.

You understand the sheer stupidity of crying about "intolerance toward intolerance" right? Is it "intolerant" to want to combat the messages being sent by ISIS? The Nazis? Westboro? I'm not saying any of the targeted performers remotely approached that level of hate, but actions can have consequences.

When some idiot makes some idiotically racist rant on their Facebook page and loses their job is their company being "intolerant" for terminating them? Maybe so but tough s**t moron you earned the result.

I need to watch this because I find it hard to believe any careers were truly ruined because of protesters rather than their material grew stale or unfunny, they made poor career choices, comedians are notorious for chemical dependency issues that lead to problems, etc. etc. I especially find this highly doubtful considering how many comedians today still cross the line without any trouble many of which are thriving.

btw - I can't stand when people cry, "I'm offended" but that's not what I'm saying is about.

 

[The Rube]

Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!

You understand the sheer stupidity of crying about "intolerance toward intolerance" right? Is it "intolerant" to want to combat the messages being sent by ISIS? The Nazis? Westboro? I'm not saying any of the targeted performers remotely approached that level of hate, but actions can have consequences.

When some idiot makes some idiotically racist rant on their Facebook page and loses their job is their company being "intolerant" for terminating them? Maybe so but tough s**t moron you earned the result.

I need to watch this because I find it hard to believe any careers were truly ruined because of protesters rather than their material grew stale or unfunny, they made poor career choices, comedians are notorious for chemical dependency issues that lead to problems, etc. etc. I especially find this highly doubtful considering how many comedians today still cross the line without any trouble many of which are thriving.

btw - I can't stand when people cry, "I'm offended" but that's not what I'm saying is about.

Opinions cannot be "wrong." Facts can be wrong. Opinions can be misguided, sure. Without a doubt. Gilbert Gottfreid got fired from AFLAC for making a tasteless joke. I think to myself, do you realize what Gilbert built his career on? Lisa Lampenelli (sp?) is another one. You go to her show, you should know what you're getting into. Yet, some still go and yell "that's offensive!"

NO SH* SHERLOCK. That's her bit. Don't like it? Don't buy a ticket. Comics are now dancing around or avoiding subjects simply because a small minority shout at the top of their lungs. I wish I could remember the black comic that brought this up, might have even been Chris Rock:

Black people can tell black jokes. But if a white person tells the same joke.....other white people think, "What is he doing?! Doesn't he know that there's one of them right...over...there?"

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: MOVIES: New Ideas Welcome!

I have a problem of "Be tolerant of other ideas....unless I disagree with you" which is what is happening nowadays. Either you're tolerant, or you're not. Doesn't matter the opinion. You CAN disagree and acknowledge a different opinion. You don't have to respect it, and you certainly don't have to be a part of the audience of that opinion. So, if you don't like anti-religion jokes, don't go to a David Cross show. Just sayin'.

In the doc, there was a play mentioned, and it was mentioned that the play was SUPPOSED to make people offended. Yet, some "offended" still went, just to yell "I'm offended!"

WHY GO?! Seriously? It's bullsh*

Sorry, but if someone gets fired because they Tweet "Kill the fags", that is their problem.

Also - Book of Mormon? That's a musical, FWIW.