MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

[Tiggsy]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

My restraint until that time will have nothing to do with "my own rules" or my new friend's advice. I just don't make a habit of mindless constant trolling.

Like I said, a certain poster is beyond the ability to change, so I will engage him whenever and however I choose. Maybe I'm sick, but it passes the time until I move on to something else.

Mindless? Maybe. Especially given the fact it's content is usually bucky related. Constant? Ok, I'll give you that one.

I'm not sure how you're ever going to move on from this. You know it will always be here waiting. Plus it would deprive the rest of us of our own sick form of entertainment. Will be a day of very mixed emotions if that day comes.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

Mindless? Maybe. Especially given the fact it's content is usually bucky related. Constant? Ok, I'll give you that one.

I'm not sure how you're ever going to move on from this. You know it will always be here waiting. Plus it would deprive the rest of us of our own sick form of entertainment. Will be a day of very mixed emotions if that day comes.

I just have too much free time at work. Almost quitting time! Another big day at the office.

Plus there will always be others stepping in when I don't care to.



Also - I was going to let it drop and leave this thread, but MSOH wouldn't let it go.

(See what I did there?)

 

[solovsfett]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

in rec hockey there was a guy who kept track of his goals and assists and kept running totals on his blog. when he reached 1000 points he was sooooooo excited as if he were *actually* 1/3 of the way to catching Gretzky...

anyway, that's not all that different to me than saying AAU and NCAA championships are equivalent...Brock Hall? get serious

 

[kdilks]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

See how nutty this whole thing gets? Again why does anyone care about the runner up AAU? And just one last time, the reason the 1929 banner is not in line with the others is because it was awarded. The 1940 banner was for a tournament that we won. Just like all the NCAAs. That is why MN puts in on the same level as an NCAA title. You can say what you want about who played in the AAU and Brock Hall, but the fact remains there was a tournament and we won. In your face, Brock Hall!

I looked up the original article in the archives of the Minnesota Daily that is the sole citation for Minnesota's 1929 championship. The actual sub-headline is "Iverson claims tie with Yale for National Collegiate Honors" (http://www.mndaily.com/sites/default/files/paper-pdfs/1929/03/16/1929-03-16.pdf#page=3). You can find an article in the Harvard Crimson from the same week claiming that if Yale won their last game against Harvard (which they did, 3-2 3OT), then Yale would have "sole claim" to a "mythical intercollegiate hockey title" (http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1929/3/13/crippled-harvard-hockey-team-faces-yale/). So obviously there was no actual title, yet Minnesota continues to take their coach's declaration as some sort of fact. Furthermore, Eveleth Junior College claims to be the top-ranked team of 1928-1929 based on the published rankings of a fellow named Tonnele in Spalding's yearly "Official Ice Hockey Guide".

 

[kdilks]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

I switched points in mid paragraph, so keep up next time and you won't question my logic. Which, as an engineer, can be rather offensive. I went back to talking about the 1929 banner, not the AAU runner up which the first sentence of my post addressed. But fine, I'll address it. You said that AAU data was difficult to find. So where did you find out about 1939? Are there other runner up years? I never looked so I don't know but know you're good at finding stuff like this if it's out there. Maybe an oversight or maybe their banner guy just doesn't know. I have no idea and have thought about this way more then I ever wanted to so it's time to stop. Frankly I've always wondered about the runner up banners. Must have been a Woog thing because he hung a couple of them. Personally I'd like to see a single banner with all the frozen 4 years listed instead. Plus like I said earlier, there will be big 10 banners to deal with shortly.

The AAU tournament appears to have lasted only those two years, and Minnesota only played 2 games in the 1940 tournament. This issue of the Minnesota Daily (http://www.mndaily.com/sites/default/files/paper-pdfs/1940/03/02/1940-03-02.pdf) says that after Cleveland (one of the favorites, and the team that had beaten Minnesota the previous year) and St Nick's dropped out, Minnesota and Brock Hall would both get byes and face off in the semi-finals, with the other 4 teams in the tournament being Short Hills, New England association, Massena, and Clinton. Then the next issue says they beat Brock Hall 9-1 in the championship game confused (http://www.mndaily.com/sites/default/files/paper-pdfs/1940/03/05/1940-03-05.pdf). I'm presuming they also played one of those other teams I've never heard of, since the March 2nd issue only lists 16 games, and then the next issue says they had won 18 straight that year.

EDIT: Apparently somebody with more info already posted about some of this stuff in the Greatest Teams thread...(http://board.uscho.com/archive/index.php/t-94422-p-45.html). My guess would be they jumbled the tournament format some after Cleveland and St Nick's dropped out.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

in rec hockey there was a guy who kept track of his goals and assists and kept running totals on his blog. when he reached 1000 points he was sooooooo excited as if he were *actually* 1/3 of the way to catching Gretzky...

anyway, that's not all that different to me than saying AAU and NCAA championships are equivalent...Brock Hall? get serious

Again, your thinking of college hockey as it is today, or the past 40-50 years. In 1940, the term "college team" didn't mean what it does today, and the line between college teams and club teams wasn't what one might think. At that time, those club teams were often representing our country in the Olympics.

So, please excuse me if I at your "Brock Hall? Get Serious" remark. The Gophers were 18-0 that year, and never won a game by less than 3 goals.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

My masterpiece

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

mnstateofhockey - gotta chuckle a little because I think you mentioned your reservations about this place on twitter. You were more right then you knew.

Yeah, we did have that conversation, didn't we. This is why I generally steer clear of message boards. Way too much drama.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

Again, your thinking of college hockey as it is today, or the past 40-50 years. In 1940, the term "college team" didn't mean what it does today, and the line between college teams and club teams wasn't what one might think. At that time, those club teams were often representing our country in the Olympics.

So, please excuse me if I at your "Brock Hall? Get Serious" remark. The Gophers were 18-0 that year, and never won a game by less than 3 goals.

you should respond to this stats and history as presented by those newspaper accounts courtesy of kdilks, those pretty much lay out the argument better than i can.

but to my point which is "Brock Hall? Get Serious!"

I stand by that. if Wisconsin played 18 Brock Hall's last year, trust me they would have waltzed through them (as painfully avg as UW as last year even).

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

you should respond to this stats and history as presented by those newspaper accounts courtesy of kdilks, those pretty much lay out the argument better than i can.

but to my point which is "Brock Hall? Get Serious!"

I stand by that. if Wisconsin played 18 Brock Hall's last year, trust me they would have waltzed through them (as painfully avg as UW as last year even).

That's my whole point. Your framing your whole argument in terms of "last year", or recent history. College hockey was much different then than now.

And what Dilks posted does little to sway my opinion. Gophers were 18-0 in 1940. They beat Michigan, Michigan Tech, and Illinios 4 times each I believe. Their smallest margin of victory that year was 3 goals. And some of those club teams, like Brock Hall, you're referring to, represented this country in the Winter Olympics and won medals.

Sorry, we can agree to disagree if you'd like, but I think your statement about "Getting Serious" to be very short-sighted. And I stand by that.

 

[kdilks]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

That's my whole point. Your framing your whole argument in terms of "last year", or recent history. College hockey was much different then than now.

And what Dilks posted does little to sway my opinion. Gophers were 18-0 in 1940. They beat Michigan, Michigan Tech, and Illinios 4 times each I believe. Their smallest margin of victory that year was 3 goals. And some of those club teams, like Brock Hall, you're referring to, represented this country in the Winter Olympics and won medals.

Sorry, we can agree to disagree if you'd like, but I think your statement about "Getting Serious" to be very short-sighted. And I stand by that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_national_ice_hockey_team_rosters

http://www.vintageminnesotahockey.com/usahockeyall-timerostersandresults.html

Practically all of the "club" players came from one club in Boston. And in the year the US didn't send a team, the Boston team was the only non-college team that was considered. The Boston team would have been a top level college team, seeing as it was largely filled with top college players who had recently graduated. A few major cities had amateur teams that appeared to have been on par with college level teams (St Nick's and Cleveland both had 1 goal games against Minnesota in 1939, and Cleveland did put one person on the US World team in 1939). But after St Nick's and Cleveland dropped, all you've got left in the 1940 AAU tournament are Minnesota and a bunch of small town teams that were apparently unimportant enough so that there's barely any written record of their existence, let alone of how good they may have been.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_national_ice_hockey_team_rosters

http://www.vintageminnesotahockey.com/usahockeyall-timerostersandresults.html

Practically all of the "club" players came from one club in Boston. And in the year the US didn't send a team, the Boston team was the only non-college team that was considered. The Boston team would have been a top level college team, seeing as it was largely filled with top college players who had recently graduated. A few major cities had amateur teams that appeared to have been on par with college level teams (St Nick's and Cleveland both had 1 goal games against Minnesota in 1939, and Cleveland did put one person on the US World team in 1939). But after St Nick's and Cleveland dropped, all you've got left in the 1940 AAU tournament are Minnesota and a bunch of small town teams that were apparently unimportant enough so that there's barely any written record of their existence, let alone of how good they may have been.

That's pretty much what you posted before. It doesn't change my opinion for reasons stated. The Gophers were clearly the best team in college hockey that year and I am happy that the University of Minnesota acknowledges and celebrates their achievement on the same level as the school's NCAA titles. I think that squad deserves it.

Saw quite a few St Paul Athletic Club players on some of the early Olympic teams. I read about that team sometime in the past, but can't recall where. Anyone know where I can find more info on them?

 

[Tiggsy]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

I looked up the original article in the archives of the Minnesota Daily that is the sole citation for Minnesota's 1929 championship. The actual sub-headline is "Iverson claims tie with Yale for National Collegiate Honors" (http://www.mndaily.com/sites/default/files/paper-pdfs/1929/03/16/1929-03-16.pdf#page=3). You can find an article in the Harvard Crimson from the same week claiming that if Yale won their last game against Harvard (which they did, 3-2 3OT), then Yale would have "sole claim" to a "mythical intercollegiate hockey title" (http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1929/3/13/crippled-harvard-hockey-team-faces-yale/). So obviously there was no actual title, yet Minnesota continues to take their coach's declaration as some sort of fact. Furthermore, Eveleth Junior College claims to be the top-ranked team of 1928-1929 based on the published rankings of a fellow named Tonnele in Spalding's yearly "Official Ice Hockey Guide".

I think we're missing the real issue here. Where can I get me a campus styled spring hat for the low price of only $5 now that Maurice Rothschild has closed down? Answer that and this whole issue goes away because we'll all be too busy staring in the mirror at how dapper we all would be.

 

[Dirty]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

I think we're missing the real issue here. Where can I get me a campus styled spring hat for the low price of only $5 now that Maurice Rothschild has closed down? Answer that and this whole issue goes away because we'll all be too busy staring in the mirror at how dapper we all would be.

Agreed. First Prize.

 

[burd]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

I think we're missing the real issue here. Where can I get me a campus styled spring hat for the low price of only $5 now that Maurice Rothschild has closed down? Answer that and this whole issue goes away because we'll all be too busy staring in the mirror at how dapper we all would be.

Parise, you raise an important point. I can't even remember the last time I was dapper. Or if.

 

[kdilks]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

I think we're missing the real issue here. Where can I get me a campus styled spring hat for the low price of only $5 now that Maurice Rothschild has closed down? Answer that and this whole issue goes away because we'll all be too busy staring in the mirror at how dapper we all would be.

It was hard to not mention all of the random stories that popped up. Especially the front page article proclaiming that women now smoke pipes instead of fags.

That's pretty much what you posted before. It doesn't change my opinion for reasons stated. The Gophers were clearly the best team in college hockey that year and I am happy that the University of Minnesota acknowledges and celebrates their achievement on the same level as the school's NCAA titles. I think that squad deserves it.

Saw quite a few St Paul Athletic Club players on some of the early Olympic teams. I read about that team sometime in the past, but can't recall where. Anyone know where I can find more info on them?

What exactly makes it so clear? They have no claim over anybody in the West. Colorado College was on the rise, and also swept Michigan that year. There was also the Southern California team that had swept Minnesota in both Los Angeles and Minneapolis/St. Paul the previous two seasons.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

It was hard to not mention all of the random stories that popped up. Especially the front page article proclaiming that women now smoke pipes instead of fags.



What exactly makes it so clear? They have no claim over anybody in the West. Colorado College was on the rise, and also swept Michigan that year. There was also the Southern California team that had swept Minnesota in both Los Angeles and Minneapolis/St. Paul the previous two seasons.

They went 18-0 and never won by less than three.

They beat Michigan 9-2, 5-2, 7-0, 5-0
They beat MichiganTech 9-1, 8-0, 7-1, 9-1
They beat Illinois 8-2, 10-2, 9-1, 9-2
They beat Yale 3-0, 7-2

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

They went 18-0 and never won by less than three.

They beat Michigan 9-2, 5-2, 7-0, 5-0
They beat MichiganTech 9-1, 8-0, 7-1, 9-1
They beat Illinois 8-2, 10-2, 9-1, 9-2
They beat Yale 3-0, 7-2

Hahahahaha

Dubber Part Deux still at it I see.


I think it's cute that you were worried about what I was doing in here.


PS - You're not going to convince even one person that the AAU title is the same as an NCAA title. Not even one.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

They went 18-0 and never won by less than three.

They beat Michigan 9-2, 5-2, 7-0, 5-0
They beat MichiganTech 9-1, 8-0, 7-1, 9-1
They beat Illinois 8-2, 10-2, 9-1, 9-2
They beat Yale 3-0, 7-2

Gurt is right, there is no-one outside of you, jdubbs and the insane, who are going to equate an AAU title w/NCAA...

it's like this. from 1996 to 1999 a bunch of nobody's raced the INDY 500 and 1 guy had to win it each of those years... no-one remembers who won those races and when their names are brought up people smirk, scowl or just start laughing. why? because there was no competition (see: the split) and the guys in those 500 races those years were all 4th-tier drivers.

the point would be let's say Buddy Lazier thinks his INDY win puts him in a ring w/Rick Mears, Mario Andretti or Jacques Villeneuve...it doesn't cause he raced against a bunch of no-talent dip****s and every sports writer in america knows that, that's why his name is never EVER mentioned amongst great INDY winnners.

same thing here. MN won 2 AAU titles against jv teams and high school teams...great for them but not terribly relevant or significant in the long run.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

They went 18-0 and never won by less than three.

They beat Michigan 9-2, 5-2, 7-0, 5-0
They beat MichiganTech 9-1, 8-0, 7-1, 9-1
They beat Illinois 8-2, 10-2, 9-1, 9-2
They beat Yale 3-0, 7-2

They were all rebuilding.