MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

[solovsfett]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

They basically gave it to you; MN has a handful of national titles in football, and UW does not. If one is to claim a program's superiority based solely on NT's, then MN's football program is superior to a lot of other ones. From my POV (and many others), such logic is nutso; MN's football team has not been relevant in my lifetime and may never be. To claim superiority over others who have been far better over the past 30+ years while MN has generally been terrible would be ridiculous. This is why a more balanced and comprehensive assessment is needed to determine how strong a program actually is. NT's are but one part of the equation (an important part to be sure but not the only part). If your team wins a bunch of titles 40+ years ago and then sucks from that point on, does it make any sense to claim superiority over others who have been far better since then?

FS23 created a thread and a system to assess program strength. One can argue the merits of his system, but I think it does a far better job than simply throwing out things like "7>5, 6>5", etc. And in the case of MN and UW in hockey, MN has been in the hunt for a title far more often than UW has. Obviously, MN has a pretty ****ty conversion rate in the Frozen Four, but they make it there far more frequently. Whether you believe that equates to a better program than one with one more NCAA title is of course totally up to you.

got it.

w/hockey UW hasn't ever really been dormant (or a doormat, save Sauer's last 6 years) so we can't really say they sucked in between national titles, though they were at-times painfully average.

...we should move this rational discussion to a new thread though and keep the nutso stuff here. this thread has served its purpose, moving the jdubbs (and pride on ice talk) out of UW threads

 

[JDUBBS1280]

got it.

w/hockey UW hasn't ever really been dormant (or a doormat, save Sauer's last 6 years) so we can't really say they sucked in between national titles, though they were at-times painfully average.

...we should move this rational discussion to a new thread though and keep the nutso stuff here. this thread has served its purpose, moving the jdubbs (and pride on ice talk) out of UW threads

Classify doormat, because UW finished 10th in the WCHA last year.

Just sayin.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

Gurt - It was several comments by several different people I was responding to, and I stand by my comments.

You feel as though SCSU, BSU, and Mankato aren't worth your time and I don't think UW is worth mine

 

[solovsfett]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

Classify doormat, because UW finished 10th in the WCHA last year.

Just sayin.

you need to go back to school unless you think 1 year tells the entire history of a program, and to be clear doormats to me are last place teams. 10th is not last place last I checked in the wcha

eff it I'll get childish and play 6>5

thread is over for me, please keep your chest pounding out of the UW threads, thanks

 

[JDUBBS1280]

you need to go back to school unless you think 1 year tells the entire history of a program, and to be clear doormats to me are last place teams. 10th is not last place last I checked in the wcha

eff it I'll get childish and play 6>5

thread is over for me, please keep your chest pounding out of the UW threads, thanks

I don't think I ever said that one year "tells the entire history" of UW hockey. Nor do I think I have ever said UW hockey hasn't done anything in its history.

You said "UW hasn't ever been a doormat".

I disagree. UW finished 10th in the WCHA last year.

And I already addressed you 6>5 comment

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

Gurt - It was several comments by several different people I was responding to, and I stand by my comments.

You feel as though SCSU, BSU, and Mankato aren't worth your time and I don't think UW is worth mine

No one cares.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

No one cares.

Sigh

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

The only thing that I've found truly disappointing is that we haven't yet had a "ROPORTED, smart guy" moment out of this whole jdubbs experience.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

You said "UW hasn't ever been a doormat".

I disagree. UW finished 10th in the WCHA last year.

I think most people here understand the term "doormat" referring to last place in the league. Wisconsin has only finished in last position once (and even then they were tied with 3 other schools...so you could theoretically argue that they were still not the doormat, but rather a doormat that season...they also won the national title the next season ). Although, if you want to expand that term, I think I can get on board with saying the Gophers have been a league doormat 2 of the last 5 years.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

I think most people here understand the term "doormat" referring to last place in the league. Wisconsin has only finished in last position once (and even then they were tied with 3 other schools...so you could theoretically argue that they were still not the doormat, but rather a doormat that season...they also won the national title the next season ). Although, if you want to expand that term, I think I can get on board with saying the Gophers have been a league doormat 2 of the last 5 years.

I'm not the one who made the statement

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

I'm not the one who made the statement

Correct. You are the one interpreting it differently than most people.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Correct. You are the one interpreting it differently than most people.

I really don't think I am. Most Gophers fans seem to agree with me, even if they don't like my approach. And even your program rankings support my viewpoint more than they don't

You just don't like me, and thus are trying to de-validate my comments. Problem is your past comments (made while not trying to dispute my claims) do much more to validate my thoughts

 

[hockeykrazy]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

After 4 days and repeating himself over and over and over and over and over and over it appears as though this JDUBBS character has a severe case of OCD and should probably be treated. The rest should just leave him alone as it just initiates the compulsion again. I know it is maddening to listen to him repeat himself over and over but the only way to stop it is to ignore him or change the subject. As you can see he will never let it drop. Spending a few years as a Boilermaker can do that to you.

I had a practice where the kids would keep knocking the water bottle off of the bench and the autistic boy would continually go over pick it up and straighten it out. They were using his obsessive compulsive disorder to distract him so they could bypass him in line for the next drill. I had to interject and explain to him that the water bottle didn't matter, the hockey drill was much more important but the disorder was maddening to him. I had to stop the rest of the kids from goading him into the obsessive behaviour and leave the water bottle alone. He also asked "what time is it" every five minutes.

This person seems to need to revalidate that the Gophers are the greatest every day, morning and evening.

He probably isn't even aware of how annoying he is. He interjects this into every thread he is engaged with.

I see that this North Dakota F23 is the same way but on a much lesser scale. He was on the Boston thread talking about North Dakota players in the NHL like they would even care about that. But he thought he was appropriate because he was on the same thought line as the Boston fans talking about their NHL players.

 

[Driftryder]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

Pass the nachos.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

I really don't think I am. Most Gophers fans seem to agree with me, even if they don't like my approach. And even your program rankings support my viewpoint more than they don't

You just don't like me, and thus are trying to de-validate my comments. Problem is your past comments (made while not trying to dispute my claims) do much more to validate my thoughts

No one cares.

 

[Osorojo]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

Great thread. Chock full of crucial and fascinating information about the past, present, and future state of D1 hockey.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

Gurt - It was several comments by several different people I was responding to, and I stand by my comments.

You feel as though SCSU, BSU, and Mankato aren't worth your time and I don't think UW is worth mine

No, what you've been arguing is that many of our fans have been saying that UW (the team/program) is "too good" to play SCSU, BSU and Mankato when in fact no one EVER said that and looking back, I am the only one who said that I didn't want to attend those games after the WCHA (as we know it) ends.

But you didn't let the facts stand in your way, did you...

NCAA titles? Yes. Titles? No. And UW has won far less conference championships and Frozen Fours. They are lucky to have the number of titles they have.

But all that isn't why I think the Gophers are too good for UW. Minnesota has more hstory and tradition. It is a more recognized hockey school. So in any world that UW is too good to play SCSU, Bemidji, and Mankato, the Gophers are definitely too good to play UW

Solo - I will post wherever I feel. Instead of getting mad at me for speaking my mind, get mad at others in your fanbase that did the SAME THING first.

Is it ok for your fanbase to say you're too good for SCSU, Bemidji, and Mankato, but not ok for me to express my firm belief that the Gophers are too good for UW?

And it is absolutely acceptable for me to say that I wish we didn't have to schedule UW. You just didn't like my reasons. The fact you don't like them doesn't mean they aren't valid reasons.

I think it was perfectly relevant. You were acting like UW is too good to play SCSU, Mankato, and Bemidji. I just mentioned that a large number of Gopher fans were upset that we were placed in the same scheduling pod as UW instead of UND and explained why many Gopher fans think our program is above playing you.

If you can't see the parallel, I don't know what to tell you other than you are seeing only what you want to see.

You clearly don't understand the context of this discussion or the point I am trying to make. If you'd stop attacking me, maybe I'd explain.

Aygwm2 - Again, you don't know the origin of the discussion, or its context, which is why you are WAY off on the point I was making. When you are ready to listen to my pount, let me know.

In regards to Minnesota not being the "State of Hockey", I'll politely disagree. Minnesota has more registered players than any other state (even states with 2-5x the population). Minnesota produces more D1 players than any other state on a yearly basis. It isn't even that close. And Minnesota has produced more NHL players than any other state. Again, not all that close. Minnesota has also produced the most US Olympic hockey players. In fact, theUS has never won an Olympic Gold medal without at least 50% of its roster being from Minnesota. The 1980 Olympic Gold medal team had 13/20 players born in Minnesota and a head coach from Minnesota.

Minnesota is the hockey capital of this country.

Let me repost my point again, and bolden the part that people are choosing to ignore.

In a world where UW is too good to play SCSU, Mankato, and Bemidji (per UW fans) then the Gophers are derfinitely too good to play the Badgers.

I stand by that.

If you don't know the context of a statement within a discussion, you can look rather foolish responding to that statement. Case in point, your post above.

And FYI.... Minnesota has had three wisconsin kids on their rosters in 91 years. Do the math.

You continue to ignore and refuse to answer my question, so I will assume you agree that I am right

Let me repost my point again, and bolden the part that people are choosing to ignore.

In a world where UW is too good to play SCSU, Mankato, and Bemidji (per UW fans) then the Gophers are derfinitely too good to play the Badgers.

I'll just keep posting this until people stop ignoring the key piece to this whole discussion.

Let me repost my point again, and bolden the part that people are choosing to ignore.

In a world where UW is too good to play SCSU, Mankato, and Bemidji (per UW fans) then the Gophers are derfinitely too good to play the Badgers.

I'll just keep posting this until people stop ignoring the key piece to this whole discussion

Almington - Please save it. The comments were made in a condesending way. If you don't think SCSU and Bemidji are the "best programs" to play moving forward, that's fine. That's your OPINION and you're entitled to it.

But news flash for you, SCSU and Bemidji just finished ahead of you in the standings, and I challenge you to find the last time the Gophers finished 10th in the conference. So, it's my OPINION that we're to good to play you.

So, because my opinions differ from yours, I'm trolling? Got it

I'm sorry, but I was responding to something I read in the thread, so it was on topic. And I didn't personally attack anyone. I don't have a problem with you or anyone else here. I just expressed my opinions on the topic. And you didn't like my opinions.

That's not trolling. But here is a novel concept. If you want People to stop discussing it, then drop it. Don't start threads like this that keep the topic alive.

I agree, I could have been more tactful, but I was just being honest. And I found some of your fanbase's remarks to be equally callous. Again, I didn't post what I did to get a rise out of people, but I am not going to lie about what I think.

I think I am being pretty reasonable and open-minded here, yet I am still getting personally attacked by some. I guess that's fair though, ha?

You still haven't answered my question

So, Solovsfett started this thread, presumably to confront me on what he felt was an injustice done by me on UW hockey.

I didn't run and hide. I didn't ignore the topic. I have explained my position without attacking the position of others.

Yet, Solovsfett continues to refuse to answer this question. Why am I a jerk for saying UMN is too good to play UW, but others aren't jerks for saying UW is too good to play SCSU, Mankato, and Bemidji?

UW isn't too good to play SCSU, BSU, and Mankato. They aren't. I'm sorry, but UW finished BEHIND two of those programs this year.

If I hadn't read comments suggesting uW is too good to play those programs in the UW thread, this thread probably wouldn't exist. See where I'm going with this?

The point is that I wasn't the one who started the whole "my program is too good to play X program" discussion. So excuse me if I say that you look a little hypocritical calling me out for my opinions.

And FYI - Even when Minnesota was down the past three years, we never finished 10th in the WCHA.

Whew! So the question that you wanted answered (over and over and over and over) was based on comments made by Badger fans that were actually never made.

Me saying that as a season ticket holder, I'd rather see us play some new blood, especially quality new blood, such as Miami, over the teams from the old WCHA is not even in the same universe as "many Badger fans thinking that UW is too good to play blah, blah, blah."

Again, you just got your pride (on ice) hurt that I'm not interested in seeing the state schools any more.

I'm sure you'd rather see the Gophers play Mankato than BC, right? You'd get all juiced for that, right?

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

Most Gophers fans seem to agree with me,

Do they?

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

I really don't think I am. Most Gophers fans seem to agree with me, even if they don't like my approach. And even your program rankings support my viewpoint more than they don't

You just don't like me, and thus are trying to de-validate my comments. Problem is your past comments (made while not trying to dispute my claims) do much more to validate my thoughts

My program rankings have Minnesota at #3 and Wisconsin at #7.
Do I think Minnesota is a better program than Wisconsin? Yes.
Do I think Minnesota is too good to play Wisconsin? No. Only a fool would believe this.

I was simply responding to the argument about the Badgers being a "doormat." While I think most Gopher fans would agree with you that Minnesota is a better program than Wisconsin, I have yet to see a single Gopher fan agree with you that Minnesota is too good to play Wisconsin.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: MN Hockey - "We're So SPECIAL!"

Gurt - And all I'm saying is that (as a Gopher hockey season ticket holder) I'd rather see UND over UW. Hated it when the Gophers were placed in the same scheduling pod as UW instead of UND.

My pride isn't hurt. Just pointing out that some Gopher fans have felt the same way about UW as you feel about SCSU, Mankato, and BSU.

And I think that hurt YOUR pride