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MLB 2011 Part 1

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Re: MLB 2011 Part 1

jmh said:
I think this is a bit of a red herring argument. He's also got some Hall of Famers in his top 10 comps, and most players (even Hall of Famers) will have a mix of overwhelming and underwhelming names. Jim Rice's top 10 comps include Ellis Burks and Dave Parker and Chili Davis, does that mean he shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame? (Well, he shouldn't, but that's a discussion for another day.) Andre Dawson's top 10 include Parker and Harold Baines. Greg Maddux is a stone-cold lock, do we keep him out because he's got a pretty strong comparison to Rick Reuschel?

Back in January Joe Posnanski wrote a phenomenal blog post called The Willie Mays Hall Of Fame that pointed out the problem with this line of thinking. I'm pretty sure I linked it then, but it's worth a read if anyone hasn't seen it yet.
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That's all well and good, but the fact remains that he hasn't got HoF numbers. If he was the backstop for the KC Royals or Pittsburgh Pirates he might not even make it onto a second ballot. Because he played in New York and has a fistful of rings he will at least be considered and probably remain on the ballot all 15 years.

Oh, and if we're going to exclude Willie Mays from the WMHoF because of his involvement with the cheating '51 Giants, how are we not going to penalize Posada who played on teams where half the players were on the juice?
 
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Re: MLB 2011 Part 1

Priceless said:
That's all well and good, but the fact remains that he hasn't got HoF numbers. If he was the backstop for the KC Royals or Pittsburgh Pirates he might not even make it onto a second ballot. Because he played in New York and has a fistful of rings he will at least be considered and probably remain on the ballot all 15 years.

Oh, and if we're going to exclude Willie Mays from the WMHoF because of his involvement with the cheating '51 Giants, how are we not going to penalize Posada who played on teams where half the players were on the juice?
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I'm not saying that he has HoF numbers, I'm saying that what you said earlier doesn't prove that he doesn't have them.

And nobody is excluding Willie Mays from any Hall of Fame; you get that that whole piece was a joke, right? Willie Mays shouldn't be excluded because the '51 Giants cheated, and Posada shouldn't be excluded because he may have been associated with steroid users. (This is consistent with Posnanski's general viewpoint that players shouldn't be excluded because of steroid implications, but rather should be evaluated in the context of the era.) If he's going to be excluded, it should be because he doesn't really match up favorably to the best catchers of his era. (Pretty clearly his offense desn't match up to Piazza, for instance, despite his remarkable career year at 35.)
 
Re: MLB 2011 Part 1

komey1 said:
Why do you think Posada is not a HOFer? He was never on a steroid list and clearly one of the best offensive catchers of his era. 5 Silver Sluggers. 5 All Star games. 267 career homers. For a catcher those are real good numbers.
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All-Star games, Silver Sluggers etc. are nice but they don't mean anything to the hall of fame. They are just nice for baseball cards.

Also his stats are good for pre-modern players, but not for contemporaries. Every HOF catcher since about 1940 crushes his stats.

Bench - 2000+ hits, 389 HR, 1300+ RBI, 1000+ Runs
Berra - 2100+ hits, 358 HR, 1400+ RBI, 1100+ Runs
Carter - 2000+ hits, 324 HR, 1200+ RBI, 1000+ Runs
Fisk - 2300+ hits, 376 HR, 1300+ RBI, 1200+ Runs

Posada (17 yrs) - 1601 hits, 267 HR, 1036 RBI, 878 Runs

ETA: Oh and for comparison's sake, Joe Mauer's careeer stats after only 7+ seasons (incl. 2011). 1019 Hits, 81 HR, 476 RBI, 509 Runs.
That projects (if doubled) to: 2038 Hits, 162 HR, 952 RBI, 1018 Runs.

I'd say that is a borderline HoF at best, and still better than Posada.
 
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Re: MLB 2011 Part 1

Hammer said:
And it's going to look even worse if/when Piazza goes in.
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As ridiculous offensively as he was, he still falls right into that group of 4. HRs of course is what set him apart.

Piazza (16 yrs) - 2127 Hits, 427 HR, 1335 RBI, 1048 Runs
 
Re: MLB 2011 Part 1

I also don't think people realize just how good Yogi was, either. Even though he played with DiMaggio and Mantle, it's pretty convenient that the Yankees started their greatest run of championships shortly after he settled in behind home plate, and they dropped off the face of the earth shortly after his retirement. Yogi hit cleanup for a lot of those teams until at least the mid-to-late 50's, I think.

EDIT: Yogi hit 4th as late as the 1958 Series, and also well into the 1959 season per Retrosheet.
 
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Re: MLB 2011 Part 1

jmh said:
I'm not saying that he has HoF numbers, I'm saying that what you said earlier doesn't prove that he doesn't have them.

And nobody is excluding Willie Mays from any Hall of Fame; you get that that whole piece was a joke, right? Willie Mays shouldn't be excluded because the '51 Giants cheated, and Posada shouldn't be excluded because he may have been associated with steroid users. (This is consistent with Posnanski's general viewpoint that players shouldn't be excluded because of steroid implications, but rather should be evaluated in the context of the era.) If he's going to be excluded, it should be because he doesn't really match up favorably to the best catchers of his era. (Pretty clearly his offense desn't match up to Piazza, for instance, despite his remarkable career year at 35.)
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lighten-up-anyone-touches-my-stuff-and-i-ll-kill-you-demotivational-poster-1253664846.jpg
 
Re: MLB 2011 Part 1

Posada was one of the best offensive catchers in his era, but his numbers aren't HOF worthy. We wouldn't be talking about him at all if it wasn't for how great the teams he played with were.
 
Re: MLB 2011 Part 1

The Indians managed to put up 14 earned runs on one pitcher last night. Where the hell was the Royals manager? Did he have to make an emergency run to the ****ter?
 
Re: MLB 2011 Part 1

bigblue_dl said:
The Indians managed to put up 14 earned runs on one pitcher last night. Where the hell was the Royals manager? Did he have to make an emergency run to the ****ter?
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Their starter got injured after like 4 hitters. So Mazzaro basically had to take one for the team to try and eat innings and save the bullpen.

He got sent to AAA for his troubles.
 
Re: MLB 2011 Part 1

One of the great box scores of all time.

He threw 77 pitches to get 7 outs. Remarkably, after the first 5 outs and 16 pitches he had still given up just 1 run.
 
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Re: MLB 2011 Part 1

Kepler said:
One of the great box scores of all time.

He threw 77 pitches to get 7 outs. Remarkably, after the first 5 outs and 16 pitches he had still given up just 1 run.
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I love that someone could allow 14 earned runs...and still not get a loss. Mazzaro was immediately sent down to the minors after the game. The starting pitcher took the loss on 21 pitches, allowing no hits, walking 3, and allowing 2 earned runs. The amount of crazy and fail in that box score is just incredible.
 
Re: MLB 2011 Part 1

I just ran over to Walgreens to get an energy drink. In the checkout line, the older lady cashier was visably upset and tearing up. She told me "I'm sorry, that last guy just told me that Harmon has passed." :(
 
Re: MLB 2011 Part 1

bigblue_dl said:
I just ran over to Walgreens to get an energy drink. In the checkout line, the older lady cashier was visably upset and tearing up. She told me "I'm sorry, that last guy just told me that Harmon has passed." :(
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killebrew.jpg


I think we should all have one for Harmon :(
 
Re: MLB 2011 Part 1

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vkuhqsnZF7Y?hd=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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