Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

[minnesotaprideonice46]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

The Gophers sure looked like they didn't care.......looked like all they had to do was show up and they would win. They appear like they have no fire in the belly. Coaching change is in order, but will Coyle do what needs to be done?

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

Can you be an apologist as I have been and still want him gone?

I've apologized too many times and while I don't believe what's happening is all Lucia's fault, but I've finally had my opinion changed. If a coaching change will put some life back in the program then just do it.

I've been pretty critical of him and even I would agree with that. I think the team actually played better in a lot of ways vs PSU in the 2nd series and still couldn't get a single win. Some of that is Lucia's fault for playing Schierhorn instead of sticking with a clearly better goalie but even average goaltending would've won last Saturday.

 

[gopher wes]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

I've been pretty critical of him and even I would agree with that. I think the team actually played better in a lot of ways vs PSU in the 2nd series and still couldn't get a single win. Some of that is Lucia's fault for playing Schierhorn instead of sticking with a clearly better goalie but even average goaltending would've won last Saturday.

The Schierhorn deal on Saturday was a headscratcher for me for sure. Beyond that, though, I'm just so sick of hearing that "it's sad to see where this program has fallen to and Don just doesn't seem to care" or "Don never has the team prepared to play against in-state rivals". As I've said many times, just because he's been historically "stoic", as many people have described him, does not mean that he doesn't care. We have no way of knowing how much tDon does or doesn't care. And I'm guessing tDon isn't preparing any differently for in-state rivals than anyone else. "Ok guys, these are our little brothers and we don't really have to try in order to beat them. Just go out there and that will be good enough to win."

If you want to rip decisions made like trix noted here with the Schierhorn decision, have at it. I'm just not ready to judge how much someone cares or not.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

The Schierhorn deal on Saturday was a headscratcher for me for sure. Beyond that, though, I'm just so sick of hearing that "it's sad to see where this program has fallen to and Don just doesn't seem to care" or "Don never has the team prepared to play against in-state rivals". As I've said many times, just because he's been historically "stoic", as many people have described him, does not mean that he doesn't care. We have no way of knowing how much tDon does or doesn't care. And I'm guessing tDon isn't preparing any differently for in-state rivals than anyone else. "Ok guys, these are our little brothers and we don't really have to try in order to beat them. Just go out there and that will be good enough to win."

If you want to rip decisions made like trix noted here with the Schierhorn decision, have at it. I'm just not ready to judge how much someone cares or not.

IDK if I said it on here or GPL but the people who think Don is too stoic have clearly never see him interact with refs

 

[gopher wes]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

IDK if I said it on here or GPL but the people who think Don is too stoic have clearly never see him interact with refs

Especially of late, he seems to be getting worse as his time seems to be coming to an end. LOL!

Not on Sandelin level in terms of whining but he's definitely let the refs hear about it more of late.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

Can you be an apologist as I have been and still want him gone?

I've apologized too many times and while I don't believe what's happening is all Lucia's fault, but I've finally had my opinion changed. If a coaching change will put some life back in the program then just do it.

This. tDon IS a good coach. Most programs would love to have him behind the bench. This particular program needs some new life, however.

 

[UMICH]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

That's what he was referring to. Even those of that are huge UM fans know our place on the national stage for FB is backstage at best.

Your football program isn't bad, but it isn't great either. You're middle-of-the-pack in the B1G which isn't bad. Heck, you're only a little behind us currently.

 

[SteveO]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

During the 2008–2009 season, Lucia was diagnosed with sarcoidosis, an autoimmune disease causing him to miss several games.

This illness, combined with an escalating number of players taking their talents to the NHL as a result of the 2006-07 CBA led to a drop in on-ice performance and a subsequent recalibration of the Gopher's recruiting strategy. The Gophers missed the NCAA tournament for three straight seasons from 2008-11.

What have the Gophers done under Coach Lucia since then compared to other top coaches and programs over the previous 6 seasons (2011-12 to 2016-17)?

LT: League Tournament, RS: Regular Season Title, FF: Frozen Four Appearance

1) York (BC) - W%/.675, 5 NCAA Appearances, 3 FF, 1 LT, 4 RS
2) Lucia (UMN) - W%/.667, 5 NCAA Appearances, 2 FF, 1 LT, 6 RS
3) Hakstol/Berry (UND) - W%/.653, 6 NCAA Appearances, 3 FF, 1 LT, 2 RS, 1 National Title
4) Gwozdecky/Montgomery (DU) - W%/.621, 5 NCAA Appearances, 2 FF, 1 LT, 1 RS, 1 National Title
5) Sandelin (UMD) - W%/.569, 4 NCAA Appearances, 1 FF, 1 LT
6) Berenson (UMich) - W%/.568, 2 NCAA Appearances, 1 LT

Based on the stats above, is there any legitimate reason to call for Lucia's dismissal?

 

[SteveO]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

TICKET SALES IN DECLINE

The University of Minnesota has routinely led the nation in generating revenue with its men’s hockey program, but Boston University topped all schools for fiscal year 2017 with $8,567,700 in revenues and the Gophers were second with $5,872,921 in revenues.

Minnesota saw ticket revenues at its lowest level in the past six seasons at $4,677,246, but received $1,181,404 in contributions which include amounts received from individuals, corporations, associations, foundations, clubs or other organizations designated for the operations of the athletics program, funds contributed by outside contributors for the payment of debt service, lease payments or rental fee expenses for athletic facilities in the reporting year, and amounts received above face value for tickets.

Minnesota’s highest reported revenue from ticket sales in the past six seasons was in fiscal year 2014 with $7,039,172.

Minnesota reported an excess in funds for fiscal year 2017 of $1,377,470 and is just one of three schools with Boston University $5,128,736 and Minnesota-Duluth $1,359,672 reporting excess funds over $1,000,000. Revenues and Expenses for other local schools include Wisconsin $5,798,444 in revenue and $4518,289 in expenses, North Dakota $5,245,254 in revenue and $4,436,452 in expenses, Minnesota Duluth $3,917,938 in revenues and $2,558,266 in expenses, St. Cloud State $2,744,430 in revenue and $2,127,944 in expenses, Minnesota State $2,083,661 in revenues and expenses, and Bemidji State $1,321,036 in revenues and expenses. - Eric Vegoe reporting for GPL

Mean revenue over the previous 12 seasons is $6,482,442. A drop in ticket sales revenue since joining the B1G suggests fan backlash at the gate. Since the Big Ten's inception in 2012-13, the Gophers total revenue has fallen below the mean four times (2012-13, 2014-15, 2015-16, 2016-17), with 2013-14 as the only exception ($7,683,129), the highest ticket sales revenue over the previous 12 years. Before the Big Ten, only once did Gopher revenue fall below the mean in 2008-09.

<img class="alignright wp-image-62732 size-full" src="http://www.gopherpucklive.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Revenue1617MensHockey.jpg" alt="" width="577" height="768" srcset="http://www.gopherpucklive.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Revenue1617MensHockey.jpg 577w, 225w" sizes="(max-width: 577px) 100vw, 577px">

<img class="aligncenter wp-image-62734 size-full" src="http://www.gopherpucklive.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/RevenueGophers0617.jpg" alt="" width="797" height="582" srcset="http://www.gopherpucklive.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/RevenueGophers0617.jpg 797w, 300w" sizes="(max-width: 797px) 100vw, 797px">

 

[The Rube]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

Gopher fans overall excuse that period of hockey where tDon was ill. We're not ruthless. We get it, and are sympathetic.

However, the last few years, it's been "good enough" hockey, and for a program like this, that is unacceptable. This year is looking like more of the same: Hey, we made the tournament, whee! Anything can happen now!

And then we lose in the first round. Although this year, there's no conference title to fall back on (which, personally, that's not the title I care about).

 

[SteveO]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

Gopher fans overall excuse that period of hockey where tDon was ill. We're not ruthless. We get it, and are sympathetic.

However, the last few years, it's been "good enough" hockey, and for a program like this, that is unacceptable. This year is looking like more of the same: Hey, we made the tournament, whee! Anything can happen now!

And then we lose in the first round. Although this year, there's no conference title to fall back on (which, personally, that's not the title I care about).

Based upon the stats I cited, how good is it?

 

[D2D]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

TICKET SALES IN DECLINE

Why the "B1G" increase in EXPENSES starting in 2013-14?

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

During the 2008–2009 season, Lucia was diagnosed with sarcoidosis, an autoimmune disease causing him to miss several games.

This illness, combined with an escalating number of players taking their talents to the NHL as a result of the 2006-07 CBA led to a drop in on-ice performance and a subsequent recalibration of the Gopher's recruiting strategy. The Gophers missed the NCAA tournament for three straight seasons from 2008-11.

What have the Gophers done under Coach Lucia since then compared to other top coaches and programs over the previous 6 seasons (2011-12 to 2016-17)?

LT: League Tournament, RS: Regular Season Title, FF: Frozen Four Appearance

1) York (BC) - W%/.675, 5 NCAA Appearances, 3 FF, 1 LT, 4 RS
2) Lucia (UMN) - W%/.667, 5 NCAA Appearances, 2 FF, 1 LT, 6 RS
3) Hakstol/Berry (UND) - W%/.653, 6 NCAA Appearances, 3 FF, 1 LT, 2 RS, 1 National Title
4) Gwozdecky/Montgomery (DU) - W%/.621, 5 NCAA Appearances, 2 FF, 1 LT, 1 RS, 1 National Title
5) Sandelin (UMD) - W%/.569, 4 NCAA Appearances, 1 FF, 1 LT
6) Berenson (UMich) - W%/.568, 2 NCAA Appearances, 1 LT

Based on the stats above, is there any legitimate reason to call for Lucia's dismissal?

Do this exercise again after this season for this year and the previous three and you will get your answer. Also take into consideration that the Gophers are pretty clearly the 4th best program in the state right now. The Gophers have been stomping through an pretty putrid conference up until this season, and in 2015 got crushed by Duluth (the 4-1 score wasn't indicative of how badly they got beat), in 2016 missed the tournament altogether, and then lost in the first round as a one seed. They will probably lose in the first round again this year.

I am not a Gopher fan, and I don't believe that you should fire a coach unless you can get someone better to replace him, but to question the legitimacy of fans wanting a change is absurd. Pretending that this program is still one of the top college hockey programs is delusional.

 

[SteveO]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

Why the "B1G" increase in EXPENSES starting in 2013-14?

Deferred payments for new center-hung LED scoreboard, LED fascia boards and sound system installed for the 2012-13 season.

 

[Koho]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

Why the "B1G" increase in EXPENSES starting in 2013-14?

Yeah, that can't be right. B1G was supposed to mean huge increase in income for every team.

 

[SteveO]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

No NCAA coach over the past 6 seasons has a higher W% than Jerry York, yet Don Lucia's W% includes 35 more games during that same six-year period. These are some of the facts AD Coyle will look at when evaluating the Gopher hockey program and another contract extension for Don Lucia at season end.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

Yeah, that can't be right. B1G was supposed to mean huge increase in income for every team.

Only for people who didn’t understand how it works. The big ten was never going to increase revenue. People point to the tv money, but they weren’t going to get but a pittance in increased revenue from TV. The money was more, “if you don’t join the BTHC, you’re out of the conference for all other sports.” So it was more of lost money than gained money.

Compound that with having to fly to a higher percentage of schools, you now have a higher expense line and a much lower bottom line.

I know you were joking, but people didn’t understand this at all.

 

[Koho]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

During the 2008–2009 season, Lucia was diagnosed with sarcoidosis, an autoimmune disease causing him to miss several games.

This illness, combined with an escalating number of players taking their talents to the NHL as a result of the 2006-07 CBA led to a drop in on-ice performance and a subsequent recalibration of the Gopher's recruiting strategy. The Gophers missed the NCAA tournament for three straight seasons from 2008-11.

What have the Gophers done under Coach Lucia since then compared to other top coaches and programs over the previous 6 seasons (2011-12 to 2016-17)?

LT: League Tournament, RS: Regular Season Title, FF: Frozen Four Appearance

1) York (BC) - W%/.675, 5 NCAA Appearances, 3 FF, 1 LT, 4 RS
2) Lucia (UMN) - W%/.667, 5 NCAA Appearances, 2 FF, 1 LT, 6 RS
3) Hakstol/Berry (UND) - W%/.653, 6 NCAA Appearances, 3 FF, 1 LT, 2 RS, 1 National Title
4) Gwozdecky/Montgomery (DU) - W%/.621, 5 NCAA Appearances, 2 FF, 1 LT, 1 RS, 1 National Title
5) Sandelin (UMD) - W%/.569, 4 NCAA Appearances, 1 FF, 1 LT
6) Berenson (UMich) - W%/.568, 2 NCAA Appearances, 1 LT

Based on the stats above, is there any legitimate reason to call for Lucia's dismissal?

Yes! Because a bunch of internet Rubes say so.

I am frustrated with the apparent under-performing team this year as much as the next fan, but am indifferent about Lucia stying or going based on the fact there is no coach I can clearly say is an upgrade and on the stats you show, that he hasn't done poorly in the areas you cover above compared to the other top programs/coaches. It is hard to judge from the outside how much of the performance is based on coaching and how much is the personalities of the players. It is not 100% of one and not the other.

I believe, unless there is a change in recruiting rules that institutes a minimum age for verbal commitments, this is the new reality for MN, and the other traditional powers in NCAA hockey. Blaming the coach for not having a team that is making the final four in most years like the early 2000's, in my mind, is ignoring or minimizing the impact of the change in the recruiting paradigm that has occurred to instill more parity in college hockey than there has probably ever been. Recruiting 15 year olds instead of 18 year olds will mean there will be some kids who are misses and many who are not as dominant once they reach college. This means the teams that can't compete for the top 15 year olds will pick up some 19-20 year olds that make them just as competitive as the big name schools in some years, meaning every year, there will be a few of these teams that got it right. I think regardless of the coach, we will not see the dominance by a handful of teams that we used to see. It sucks for us fans of teams that used to be near the top every year, but it is probably better for college hockey (although I don't know if it is better for youth hockey to have 14-15 year olds choosing colleges). I just don't think it is realistic to expect a team to be near the top every year in this age of recruiting young players. (And you can't just say they should recruit only older kids, because you clearly miss some studs that way too. No easy answer.)

 

[SteveO]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

Yes! Because a bunch of internet Rubes say so.

I am frustrated with the apparent under-performing team this year as much as the next fan, but am indifferent about Lucia stying or going based on the fact there is no coach I can clearly say is an upgrade and on the stats you show, that he hasn't done poorly in the areas you cover above compared to the other top programs/coaches. It is hard to judge from the outside how much of the performance is based on coaching and how much is the personalities of the players. It is not 100% of one and not the other.

I believe, unless there is a change in recruiting rules that institutes a minimum age for verbal commitments, this is the new reality for MN, and the other traditional powers in NCAA hockey. Blaming the coach for not having a team that is making the final four in most years like the early 2000's, in my mind, is ignoring or minimizing the impact of the change in the recruiting paradigm that has occurred to instill more parity in college hockey than there has probably ever been. Recruiting 15 year olds instead of 18 year olds will mean there will be some kids who are misses and many who are not as dominant once they reach college. This means the teams that can't compete for the top 15 year olds will pick up some 19-20 year olds that make them just as competitive as the big name schools in some years, meaning every year, there will be a few of these teams that got it right. I think regardless of the coach, we will not see the dominance by a handful of teams that we used to see. It sucks for us fans of teams that used to be near the top every year, but it is probably better for college hockey (although I don't know if it is better for youth hockey to have 14-15 year olds choosing colleges). I just don't think it is realistic to expect a team to be near the top every year in this age of recruiting young players. (And you can't just say they should recruit only older kids, because you clearly miss some studs that way too. No easy answer.)

Those are my sentiments as well Koho. The college hockey landscape has changed drastically since the Gophers won back-to-back championships. Other schools have emulated the recruiting strategies of the traditional hockey powers, upgraded their facilities and coaching staff to lure young recruits. There's never been more parity in college hockey than there is in today's NCAA D1. Ergo, the arms race continues...

 

[The Rube]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Thread 2017-18 Part II

Those are my sentiments as well Koho. The college hockey landscape has changed drastically since the Gophers won back-to-back championships. Other schools have emulated the recruiting strategies of the traditional hockey powers, upgraded their facilities and coaching staff to lure young recruits. There's never been more parity in college hockey than there is in today's NCAA D1. Ergo, the arms race continues...

And I refuse to believe that tDon isn't a good coach. However, the program needs some fresh breath. There's no blame going on. It just happens at times in sports. Sometimes a new cog in the machine is all that is needed. This may very well be a bad comparison, but Case Keenum was a marginal QB until this year. Then it all clicked with the Vikes. Of course, with the rumored addition of Cousins, we won't know if it was a one-year sensation or not...however, on the other hand, what if it isn't a flash in the pan? We know what we have with Lucia at this point:

NCAA appearance (most likely) and an early exit. In my words, that's simply good enough for appearances, and not what this program is all about.