Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

[Slap Shot]

I'm of the firm belief that the result should not be a factor in a suspension. The actual act is the only thing that matters. If Walker wasn't concussed, in this instance, there would not even be a discussion.

The concussion is irrelevant to his reckless act. Players get fined in the pros for results that are often unintentional, same thing in the real world (driving for instance). He violently swung his stick and struck an opponent in the head. A suspension is no brainer.

 

[trixR4kids]

The concussion is irrelevant to his reckless act. Players get fined in the pros for results that are often unintentional, same thing in the real world (driving for instance). He violently swung his stick and struck an opponent in the head. A suspension is no brainer.

Exactly

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Wasn't someone saying our pp isn't good a while ago lol

Squirt B's would be scoring at a 20% clip against the BADger PK. It is beyond embarrassing.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

The concussion is irrelevant to his reckless act. Players get fined in the pros for results that are often unintentional, same thing in the real world (driving for instance). He violently swung his stick and struck an opponent in the head. A suspension is no brainer.

And I disagree with that. Ok, you slash a guy, get the penalty, maybe a suspension. Wait a second, now the guy is missing time because of an injury due to incident. Penalty is now increased. Nope. Don't like that. You give out the penalty due to the action itself. Period. Result of the penalty (as in injury) should not matter.

 

[D2D]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Well the actual act was a guy slashing a guy in the face so...

Thank God for facemasks in this instance. Without it could have been even worse, like loss of an eye.

 

[SteveO]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Nice to see five 5x5 goals on Friday. But then the flipside last night and the bipolar Gophers can't even bury one. An energy injection from the Freshman line was sorely missed. Sammy Walker is the heartbeat of that line and his injury definitely hurt the Gophers. This was not one of Robson's best games either, getting beat on a couple clear shots from the top of the circles, ending his unbeaten streak against the BADgers at 4.

Gophers needed a sweep this weekend for a remote shot at an at-large bid. IMO that went down the toilet tonight, meaning they'd have to nearly run the table in the remaining 10 games. With the majority of the games against ranked teams and this team's poor and inconsistent play at times, the heavy odds are it's not going to happen. The only chance left is win the BTHC tourney, and I'm not holding my breath on that one either.

Overall, I did not see enough mental preparedness, passion and skill development from the Gophers on both sides of the puck this season. Some of that is on the coaching staff, but most of it is on the players. You can lead a horse to water...etc., comes to mind.

Honoring the 1979 Gopher championship team last evening is another reminder of the commitment and respect that is demanded from players who wear that "M" on their sweater. IMO this group seems to have taken that too lightly this season.

 

[D2D]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Sadly, SteveO, I think you speak the truth. I have regretfully come to the conclusion that this team is, at best, very average overall. The pluses and the minuses pretty much even everything out to: you guessed it, average. They can look great passing the puck through the neutral zone, setting up great opportunities and sometimes goals in the offensive zone, but then surrendering one point blank shot after another in the defensive zone, relying on Robson time and time again to bail them out. It's not that they don't expend the effort; they mostly do try hard, but more often than not they just don't have the skill or know-how to clear the zone in a timely manner. Too many guys standing around, just waiting....for someone else to make a play, but unfortunately all to often that someone else is wearing a different jersey and they get burned.

I agree that with tonight's loss, to another very average team, a game that was really a must win, all but closes the door as far as an NCAA tournament bid is concerned. From here on out it'll be a test of character as the team plays the remaining games on the schedule. Hopefully the guys will still play as hard as they can, for the fans, the program, and for themselves.

 

[Stauber1]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

And I disagree with that. Ok, you slash a guy, get the penalty, maybe a suspension. Wait a second, now the guy is missing time because of an injury due to incident. Penalty is now increased. Nope. Don't like that. You give out the penalty due to the action itself. Period. Result of the penalty (as in injury) should not matter.

I suppose you apply the same logic to speeding in a school zone

 

[The Rube]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

I suppose you apply the same logic to speeding in a school zone

Nice try at a troll.

Sports is completely different, and you know this. Try spearing an individual in the general public, and see what happens.

 

[SteveO]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Regarding whether an unintentional injury to an opposing player should be penalized. It's always a discretionary call by the referee. The example of a high stick resulting in an unintentional injury:

Rule 60 in the NHL rules book: A penalty is assessed if a player strikes another player with a high stick. The player is given a minor penalty unless his high stick caused an injury, in which case the referee has the option to assess a double-minor, major, game misconduct or match penalty. It is the referee's discretion which penalty to assess: the rule calls for a double minor for an accidental injury, or a match penalty for a deliberate attempt to injure (whether the opposition player was actually injured). Injury is usually decided by the high stick causing bleeding, but the presence of blood does not automatically mean an extra penalty is awarded. Some referees have been known to award an extra penalty without the presence of blood if the referee determines that the injury sustained was sufficient to warrant a double-minor penalty.

I'm pretty sure the NCAA follows the same NHL protocol. A traumatic brain injury (TBI) is a very serious matter. IMO whoever it was that unintentionally concussed Sammy Walker, should be penalized.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Regarding whether an unintentional injury to an opposing player should be penalized. It's always a discretionary call by the referee. The example of a high stick resulting in an unintentional injury:

Rule 60 in the NHL rules book: A penalty is assessed if a player strikes another player with a high stick. The player is given a minor penalty unless his high stick caused an injury, in which case the referee has the option to assess a double-minor, major, game misconduct or match penalty. It is the referee's discretion which penalty to assess: the rule calls for a double minor for an accidental injury, or a match penalty for a deliberate attempt to injure (whether the opposition player was actually injured). Injury is usually decided by the high stick causing bleeding, but the presence of blood does not automatically mean an extra penalty is awarded. Some referees have been known to award an extra penalty without the presence of blood if the referee determines that the injury sustained was sufficient to warrant a double-minor penalty.

I'm pretty sure the NCAA follows the same NHL protocol. A traumatic brain injury (TBI) is a very serious matter. IMO whoever it was that unintentionally concussed Sammy Walker, should be penalized.

Penalized in the game, sure. I could go with that. Suspended? No.

 

[SteveO]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Penalized in the game, sure. I could go with that. Suspended? No.

Intentionality is sometimes difficult to determine and is up to the referee's discretion. However, if the act results in an unintentional but serious injury such as TBI, those medical results would not be confirmed during game time. Upon further review, the referee has the option of increasing the penalty to a suspension. TBI is a serious matter. The referee should review the play again this week and the B1G should rule to suspend the BADger player. You can count on Motzko contacting league officials on this matter asap.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Intentionality is sometimes difficult to determine and is up to the referee's discretion. However, if the act results in an unintentional but serious injury such as TBI, those medical results would not be confirmed during game time. Upon further review, the referee has the option of increasing the penalty to a suspension. TBI is a serious matter. The referee should review the play again this week and the B1G should rule to suspend the BADger player. You can count on Motzko contacting league officials on this matter asap.

That is my point. Then you are penalizing due to the result, not the action itself. I disagree with that course of action.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Sadly, SteveO, I think you speak the truth. I have regretfully come to the conclusion that this team is, at best, very average overall. The pluses and the minuses pretty much even everything out to: you guessed it, average. They can look great passing the puck through the neutral zone, setting up great opportunities and sometimes goals in the offensive zone, but then surrendering one point blank shot after another in the defensive zone, relying on Robson time and time again to bail them out. It's not that they don't expend the effort; they mostly do try hard, but more often than not they just don't have the skill or know-how to clear the zone in a timely manner. Too many guys standing around, just waiting....for someone else to make a play, but unfortunately all to often that someone else is wearing a different jersey and they get burned.

I agree that with tonight's loss, to another very average team, a game that was really a must win, all but closes the door as far as an NCAA tournament bid is concerned. From here on out it'll be a test of character as the team plays the remaining games on the schedule. Hopefully the guys will still play as hard as they can, for the fans, the program, and for themselves.

This is all pretty spot on. After the ND sweep and PSU series I thought maaaaaaybe at some point they'd actually start playing better (maybe they finally get used to the new coach and system and fully buy in etc.) and not get wildly outshot and out chanced every time they played a good team (and the fact that they can't do the opposite against mediocre teams like MSU/WI). They got the result they needed against ND but there were so many stretches where they couldn't register a shot in the other direction or get any sustained pressure, meanwhile ND was pouring it on from all angles on the other side and the Gophers got lucky that a few of the better chances inexplicably stayed out of the net. Fast forward a week and the luck went the other way, MSU got some triple deflection goals and we lost by 1 rather than winning by one. And then this last series we got some improbable puck luck combined with some horrible goaltending in the first game and game 2 the opposing goalie actually showed up and Robson couldn't cover up enough of the mistakes.

This team is actually on pace for more goals than last year (admittedly this isn't saying a lot) with largely the same team minus CM so it does seem like minor improvement has been made, the team seems to generate more fast breaks and the PP isn't as abysmal despite having less talent. They're fairly resourceful in terms of scoring goals with less shots kinda like those Avs/Toronto teams that defied the odds and made the playoffs during the lockout shortened season. But when our top 2 centers are fairly mediocre (Pitlick switching positions to center the top line and having linemates who do the bare minimum in terms of forechecking doesn't help) and the D continue to struggle at retrieving and moving the puck it's tough to get sustained pressure and consistently tilt the ice in the other direction and consistently win games. I think this team has had maybe 3-4 games all year where they actually managed to win the EV shot battle convincingly and none of those games were vs good teams.

I feel like our record with Schierhorn is telling, he's an average NCAA goalie with a .910 sv%. We're 2-4 in those games with some of the more embarrassing losses of the season.

 

[SteveO]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

The concussion is irrelevant to his reckless act. Players get fined in the pros for results that are often unintentional, same thing in the real world (driving for instance). He violently swung his stick and struck an opponent in the head. A suspension is no brainer.

That seems to be the intent of the NCAA Rules Committee's seasonal emphasis on the "responsibility" of the offending player, especially in the case of hits to the neck and head areas, intentional or not. Since the league and NCAA adopted a stronger "no tolerance" policy with hits in those vulnerable areas, any contact resulting in serious injury such as a concussion will be reviewed.

It was a reckless act with a stick that resulted in serious injury. A suspension echos the serious intent and sentiment of the ruling that a player is "responsible" for what he does with the stick. It also sends a strong message that may protect players from serious injury in the future. I can imagine it was a bit of a scary situation for the Walker family.

Contact to the head. Any time a player makes direct contact with the head or neck of an opponent it is a major penalty and game misconduct at a minimum. The responsibility lies with the player making the hit to avoid contact with the head and neck area of an opposing player. A player delivering a check to an unsuspecting and vulnerable player puts themselves in jeopardy of being penalized under this rule.

 

[Koho]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Sadly, SteveO, I think you speak the truth. I have regretfully come to the conclusion that this team is, at best, very average overall. It's not that they don't expend the effort; they mostly do try hard, but more often than not they just don't have the skill or know-how to clear the zone in a timely manner. Too many guys standing around, just waiting....for someone else to make a play, but unfortunately all to often that someone else is wearing a different jersey and they get burned.

SteveO mentions the team not being prepared, stressing the lack of effort. Then you mention average skill as agreeing with SteveO, yet end describing lack of effort. I believe Standing around waiting is an effort issue. They do this on too many shifts. Seems like several times a game on the breakout, the forwards are just gliding, and don't have the speed to break through the opponents in the neutal zone. (So the breakout issues aren't all on the D.) I think the D is average to a little above, but forwards, and clearly the goaltending are above for the skill level. (Calling average the skill of the 30th best team, so maybe above the mean.) But both forwards and D (esception of the freshman line) have stretches in games where they are not clicking at their highest level. And I agree that this isn't just about coaches. Last year and this year, coaches have talked openly about frustration with getting these players motivated.

 

[Koho]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

That is my point. Then you are penalizing due to the result, not the action itself. I disagree with that course of action.

First, are we sure that high stick was the cause of the concussion? Hits to the facemask don't seem to result in a concussion as much as back of head.
Second, while he clearly wasn't aiming for Sammy, this being accidental wasn't quite the same as a guy highsticking an opponent in the act of trying to lift a stick to gain control of a puck, or to lift a stick over an opponent as one skates past. This was committed on an unsportsman like act. It wasn't committed during play. He was reacting after the play and should have been more careful. This is a completely avoidable act, not like an accidental act in the heat of action. That should be taken into consideration.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Seems like several times a game on the breakout, the forwards are just gliding, and don't have the speed to break through the opponents in the neutal zone. (So the breakout issues aren't all on the D.)

The forwards have to start really far back usually below the hash marks just to get the breakout going, that's usually a sign of the D being on the weaker side. Yes ideally you want to have the D hit the forwards with speed (Kloos was always great at this) but it's hard to get the timing down when the D often lose the puck retrieval race, win it and throw it aimlessly up the boards every time, or have no ability to side step or get past a forecheck on their own.

That said I don't disagree that we have some lazy forwards on this team, including the captain.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Nice try at a troll.

Sports is completely different, and you know this. Try spearing an individual in the general public, and see what happens.

I've had a stick get ripped from my hands, and when their center tossed it, it ended up under the skate of their RW who had the puck. I was penalized because the ref saw my stick under the RW's skate, the reason for the infraction was irrelevant. Other times I've baited people into taking swipes at me, and the refs saw the retaliation. He went to the bin, my team went on to perform its usual Rubes PP (usually turned into a de facto PP for the other team).

Regardless of intent, a player is responsible for his own actions. You want to take an action that busts up your stick? You need to make sure that you're in a space free of other people or you should suffer the consequences. Intent shouldn't matter in the least except to the severity of the punishment.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

SteveO mentions the team not being prepared, stressing the lack of effort. Then you mention average skill as agreeing with SteveO, yet end describing lack of effort. I believe Standing around waiting is an effort issue. They do this on too many shifts. Seems like several times a game on the breakout, the forwards are just gliding, and don't have the speed to break through the opponents in the neutal zone. (So the breakout issues aren't all on the D.) I think the D is average to a little above, but forwards, and clearly the goaltending are above for the skill level. (Calling average the skill of the 30th best team, so maybe above the mean.) But both forwards and D (esception of the freshman line) have stretches in games where they are not clicking at their highest level. And I agree that this isn't just about coaches. Last year and this year, coaches have talked openly about frustration with getting these players motivated.

I agree with this. This team has more skill with respect to what they've accomplished so far but it's not fully realized because the effort just isn't there. I don't think they're necessarily a bona fide FF team skill-wise, but certainly one that should have been able to make the tournament without having to win the conference tournament.