LIU adds Men's D-1 Hockey

[rpi82]

Re: LIU adds Men's D-1 Hockey

Anyone who snears at D-3 should look again ... some of the top level D-3 teams (Norwich, Trinity, Hobart, Utica
Oswego, Geneseo, Plattsburgh, Middlebury) would be more than competitive in the AHA, and many of them play in beautiful facilities and draw crowds that put most AHA rinks to shame.

No one said that there aren't some fine D3 programs and facilities - and far be it for me to justify why some AHA teams continue to sponsor D1 programs (including a full load of scholarships) given their level of fan support. In the old days when there was more cross-over some of the D2 and D3 schools used to play a few games against D1 and, although the higher level programs generally won, upsets did happen. I remember seeing Oswego and Lowell (then D2) win such games. I suspect we might see the same today if cross-over was more common. However, even a D3 power such as Norwich doesn't play a schedule comparable to the AHA programs. It's still quite fair to say that a D1 school that plays a significant percentage of its games against D3 schools would be D1 in name only. That was the point.

 

[rpi82]

Re: LIU adds Men's D-1 Hockey

Some of you are taking this announcement the same way as if they had insulted your mother. Good grief.

No, just offering different opinions on the significance of this annoucement and how it may impact the future of college hockey.

 

[Split-N]

Re: LIU adds Men's D-1 Hockey

...Hofstra basketball, which is across the street from the Coliseum and a mile from the Northwell Center, drew 2,800+ a game this year, and that's a program that hadn't made the NCAA tournament since 2001 before this year...

Hofstra has a pretty good hoops rivalry going with Northeastern; in fact, Hofstra punched its dance ticket this year at NU's expense. Would be great if that rivalry could carry over to hockey. But that would seem to be in the realm of fantasy at this point.

 

[Sol Diablo]

Re: LIU adds Men's D-1 Hockey

I'm sticking with the UC Irvine Anteaters for the next NCAA hockey team......

"UC Irvine Anteaters
There have long been rumors, even before Arizona State became the first Pac-12 team to adopt an NCAA Division I ice hockey team, that the Pac-12 would be the perfect hockey conference.

However, recent developments make UC Irvine, who competes in the Big West Conference, a theoretically strong contender to be the first California team to field a varsity hockey program. It all has to do with ice access and the cost of running college hockey programs.

In an interview for The New York Times, former USA Hockey Executive Director Dave Ogrean said it outright.

“Obviously, it costs a lot of money,” he said. “That’s why you’re never going to have an explosion in the number of programs.”

(From: ‘College Hockey Has a Talent Glut, but Nowhere to Grow‘ The New York Times – 3/27/17).
From the cost of possibly having to build and operate a hockey arena to funding a corresponding women’s program or another women’s sport as a result of Title IX, starting a hockey program is one of the costlier college sports that an athletic department undertakes.

Offsetting those costs, and even making a profit, is dependent on a lot of things, including how competitive the team is and how easy it is for students and fans to access the games.

An NHL Neighbor
That’s what gives UCI a clear advantage. Though they only recently restarted their club hockey team, UCI has a potential partnership with the newly built Great Park Ice & FivePoint arena.

The arena is a mere nine miles from the UCI campus, can hold 2,500 spectators and has technological features like a video scoreboard that would fit a college program perfectly. That would put it between Ewigleben Arena, home of the Ferris State University hockey team, and Cadet Ice Arena, home of the Air Force Academy hockey team, in terms of spectator capacity.

It is the perfect arena for college hockey.

The arena’s proximity to the campus makes it easier for students to attend games and more likely that the team will bring in ticket revenue. Even though the rink isn’t on campus, a benefit many current NCAA College programs have, it’s not prohibitively far away.

There’s also the option to retrofit the Bren Events Center, UCI’s basketball and volleyball stadium, for ice."

 

[ScoobyFanClub]

Re: LIU adds Men's D-1 Hockey

The attendance was horrendous on LI once they went to the NBA and Dr J was gone. They averaged under 7,800 in '77. They weren't going to pay the Knicks another $4mil unless they had to, which I guess they did.

The key point being "Dr. J was gone" -- they stunk, and lost their top attraction.

But that's not the reason they left for the Meadowlands. Like I said - Jets left too - and if you say Queens/LI is not a "football area" - you are clearly absurd.

 

[HofstraHockey]

Re: LIU adds Men's D-1 Hockey

The key point being "Dr. J was gone" -- they stunk, and lost their top attraction.

But that's not the reason they left for the Meadowlands. Like I said - Jets left too - and if you say Queens/LI is not a "football area" - you are clearly absurd.

The Jets left because Shea was not, at all, a football stadium, and Hess tried to pull a Walter O'Malley, only with NJ as the threat to Koch instead of California to Robert Moses.

As far as ripping the Coliseum down, I wouldn't expect it. If Byrne/Continetal is still standing (and it is), the Coliseum isn't going anywhere. How it's going to survive financially, nobody knows. ESPECIALLY if the arena in Ronkonkoma gets built and gets an ECHL team there.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: LIU adds Men's D-1 Hockey

Anyone who snears at D-3 should look again ... some of the top level D-3 teams (Norwich, Trinity, Hobart, Utica
Oswego, Geneseo, Plattsburgh, Middlebury) would be more than competitive in the AHA, and many of them play in beautiful facilities and draw crowds that put most AHA rinks to shame.

As a fan of a team that made the transition between divisions... "more than competitive" is more than a slight exaggeration.

As for crowds, I'd have to see the numbers on that.


Powers &8^]

 

[HofstraHockey]

Re: LIU adds Men's D-1 Hockey

As a fan of a team that made the transition between divisions... "more than competitive" is more than a slight exaggeration.

As for crowds, I'd have to see the numbers on that.


Powers &8^]

https://www.uscho.com/stats/attendance/division-i-men/
https://www.uscho.com/stats/attendance/division-iii-men/

3,394 >>>> 638

Say Utica is exaggerating. Let's say it's 50% what they claim. 1,697 is still more than Niagra, Bentley, AIC, Sacred Heart, Holy Cross, RMU and Canisius all claim to draw. If Utica isn't? Add in the other four.

 

[The Zlax45]

Re: LIU adds Men's D-1 Hockey

https://www.uscho.com/stats/attendance/division-i-men/
https://www.uscho.com/stats/attendance/division-iii-men/

3,394 >>>> 638

Say Utica is exaggerating. Let's say it's 50% what they claim. 1,697 is still more than Niagra, Bentley, AIC, Sacred Heart, Holy Cross, RMU and Canisius all claim to draw. If Utica isn't? Add in the other four.

I don't think Utica is exaggerating.

https://www.facebook.com/ucmenshockey/videos/506370823587205/

 

[bakdraft21]

Re: LIU adds Men's D-1 Hockey

As far as crowds go...I talked with and have met many Oswego players parents,many have said that one big reason they went to Oswego instead of some other D1 teams that recruited them is that the crowds at Oswego are Large and into the game,they didn't want friends and family only night ,every night at some of the lower end D1 schools,after that who knows??...p.s. checkout a Youtude video of whiteout Weekend in Oswego,I have been to many,and as a former player would have loved to play in a WW,and we had great crowds as well when I played.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: LIU adds Men's D-1 Hockey

As far as crowds go...I talked with and have met many Oswego players parents,many have said that one big reason they went to Oswego instead of some other D1 teams that recruited them is that the crowds at Oswego are Large and into the game,they didn't want friends and family only night ,every night at some of the lower end D1 schools,after that who knows??...p.s. checkout a Youtude video of whiteout Weekend in Oswego,I have been to many,and as a former player would have loved to play in a WW,and we had great crowds as well when I played.

You had Romney. You can't complain.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: LIU adds Men's D-1 Hockey

ESPECIALLY if the arena in Ronkonkoma gets built and gets an ECHL team there.

Wait, what?! Seriously? Where?

Bring back the Long Island Ducks! Long live the Commack Arena.

 

[bakdraft21]

Re: LIU adds Men's D-1 Hockey

You had Romney. You can't complain.

Yes and the ZOO was great,our crowds were 2nd to none...I remember coming in as a soph transfer and the crowd was yelling so loud I couldn't understand what they were saying ,turns out one side of the rink was yelling Tastes great and the other side replied less filing,funny stuff...

 

[LtPowers]

Re: LIU adds Men's D-1 Hockey

https://www.uscho.com/stats/attendance/division-i-men/
https://www.uscho.com/stats/attendance/division-iii-men/

3,394 >>>> 638

Say Utica is exaggerating. Let's say it's 50% what they claim. 1,697 is still more than Niagra, Bentley, AIC, Sacred Heart, Holy Cross, RMU and Canisius all claim to draw. If Utica isn't? Add in the other four.

Sure, but Utica is a bizarre outlier. =)

Thanks for the numbers. I admit I didn't realize Niagara's attendance had fallen so far. I knew AIC and Sacred Heart have long drawn poorly, but while they've improved a bit, other AHA teams have gotten worse (along with many other D-I schools).


Powers &8^]

 

[HofstraHockey]

Wait, what?! Seriously? Where?

Bring back the Long Island Ducks! Long live the Commack Arena.

https://arenadigest.com/2019/12/18/second-extension-granted-for-ronkonkoma-vision-project-developers/

Many locals see this as what Stony Brook is waiting on to become DI. While LIU may be able to get by with the Northwell Center, nothing even close to that exists out east.

With the Islanders moving another 30 min or so further from Suffolk, there may be a good market out there for hockey fans. If the Islanders were to move their AHL affiliate to LI, it would probably make more sense to have it out there as to not cannibalize their Nassau fans. But if not, Stony Brook could find a nice soft spot there. And a LIU/Stony Brook rivalry could be fun.

 

[HofstraHockey]

As far as crowds go...I talked with and have met many Oswego players parents,many have said that one big reason they went to Oswego instead of some other D1 teams that recruited them is that the crowds at Oswego are Large and into the game,they didn't want friends and family only night ,every night at some of the lower end D1 schools,after that who knows??...p.s. checkout a Youtude video of whiteout Weekend in Oswego,I have been to many,and as a former player would have loved to play in a WW,and we had great crowds as well when I played.

Honestly, if you're a borderline player, especially one that lives in NY, I could easily see picking Oswego over Niagra or Canisius. In-state tuition may be less than the small partial scholarship you might get (especially once the in-state free tuition rolls around), the crowds, the minutes, the ability to play more as a freshman. I totally get it. If you figure it out and are THAT good a few years in, some bigger DI schools will come knocking.

Let's see what Sacred Heart and a few others do now that they're starting to pick up some steam and are no longer just bottom feeders. If LIU pulls a rabbit out in a few years and is able to attract some local talent, they COULD be poised to raise the standard of the league (assuming that's where they end up).

 

[rpi82]

Re: LIU adds Men's D-1 Hockey

Honestly, if you're a borderline player, especially one that lives in NY, I could easily see picking Oswego over Niagra or Canisius. In-state tuition may be less than the small partial scholarship you might get (especially once the in-state free tuition rolls around), the crowds, the minutes, the ability to play more as a freshman. I totally get it. If you figure it out and are THAT good a few years in, some bigger DI schools will come knocking.

Let's see what Sacred Heart and a few others do now that they're starting to pick up some steam and are no longer just bottom feeders. If LIU pulls a rabbit out in a few years and is able to attract some local talent, they COULD be poised to raise the standard of the league (assuming that's where they end up).

"If you figure it out and are THAT good a few years in, some bigger DI schools will come knocking. " Can you cite any recent examples where that has actually happened? Perhaps they exist, but they would be few and far between. On the more highly ranked D3 team rosters I see numerous examples of players dropping down from D1, with the AHA being by far the biggest source among the eastern schools. I'm most familiar with ECAC rosters and I can't remember the last time I saw a transfer from a D3 school that actually played (I vaguely recall a practice goalie a number of years back but can't remember the details). I'd be shocked if there were actual examples of such players transferring from D3 to "bigger D1 schools" (which I would interpret to be traditional powers). Undergrad transfers in college hockey generally go down the totem pole (big boys to lower D1, particularly the AHA, and lower D1 to D3) in pursuit of playing time. Most of the exceptions recently are grad transfers going up the stack, but even then I don't remember any from D3 to D1.

 

[FLHockeyMom]

Re: LIU adds Men's D-1 Hockey

"If you figure it out and are THAT good a few years in, some bigger DI schools will come knocking. " Can you cite any recent examples where that has actually happened? Perhaps they exist, but they would be few and far between. On the more highly ranked D3 team rosters I see numerous examples of players dropping down from D1, with the AHA being by far the biggest source among the eastern schools. I'm most familiar with ECAC rosters and I can't remember the last time I saw a transfer from a D3 school that actually played (I vaguely recall a practice goalie a number of years back but can't remember the details). I'd be shocked if there were actual examples of such players transferring from D3 to "bigger D1 schools" (which I would interpret to be traditional powers). Undergrad transfers in college hockey generally go down the totem pole (big boys to lower D1, particularly the AHA, and lower D1 to D3) in pursuit of playing time. Most of the exceptions recently are grad transfers going up the stack, but even then I don't remember any from D3 to D1.

Jack Billings says "hello":

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/220034/jack-billings

But you are correct, it is exceedingly rare.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: LIU adds Men's D-1 Hockey

"If you figure it out and are THAT good a few years in, some bigger DI schools will come knocking. " Can you cite any recent examples where that has actually happened? Perhaps they exist, but they would be few and far between. On the more highly ranked D3 team rosters I see numerous examples of players dropping down from D1, with the AHA being by far the biggest source among the eastern schools. I'm most familiar with ECAC rosters and I can't remember the last time I saw a transfer from a D3 school that actually played (I vaguely recall a practice goalie a number of years back but can't remember the details). I'd be shocked if there were actual examples of such players transferring from D3 to "bigger D1 schools" (which I would interpret to be traditional powers). Undergrad transfers in college hockey generally go down the totem pole (big boys to lower D1, particularly the AHA, and lower D1 to D3) in pursuit of playing time. Most of the exceptions recently are grad transfers going up the stack, but even then I don't remember any from D3 to D1.

Under current rules, one can transfer from DI to DIII and not sit out a year, but a transfer in the other direction must sit out.

 

[bakdraft21]

Re: LIU adds Men's D-1 Hockey

Wait, what?! Seriously? Where?

Bring back the Long Island Ducks! Long live the Commack Arena.

Played my first game there ..1971