Latest pairwise rankings

[Bale]

John - not sure what this B10 analysis proves/says? I took a quick look at the NCHC for comparison (not including any exhibition games) and the NCHC shows 84 games played with a ratio of 14 against the field which is considerably weaker by percentage. I think if you look at who the quality teams in the country are this year based on watching them play the Pairwise is fairly accurately showing the most consistent regular season teams. Is there another conference that supports a considerably better ratio?

As far as the B10, IMO only MN and MICH are legit threats for a Natty. I think most major conferences have 1-2 teams with serious chances. Should be fun to see how it shakes out.

I mean, I'm not sure what people expected. The NCHC has done this for years and many of the Big Ten teams have done this for years. This was the inevitable result for putting all of the power teams in the west in the same conferences. We just didn't see it with the Big Ten right away because so many schools had down years out of the gate. If so many of the top end teams are in the same conferences and can't schedule each other in the non-conference, of course they are going to be playing lower end teams. When it's cost prohibitive to be flying all around the country to seek out top competition. Now, you have a bunch of teams that in recent history are not very good and that is who the power conferences have the ability to schedule. You end up with Penn State scheduling a lot of AHA teams and lower end ECAC schools (which was obviously by design) and you have the NCHC and Big Ten school scheduling the lower end CCHA schools (because there is really only 1 or 2 schools that have taken advantage of the weak conference). The math just automatically works this way. I'm not as familiar as Michigan's schedule, but I'll give Minnesota a lot of credit. They typically have a ridiculous out of conference schedule. It just so happens that UND is down this year and it was an off year for the UMD schedule (although that wouldn't have helped this year either)so that drags down the SOS for both of those conferences.

The above poster is correct though, winning out of conference is everything. It's an imperfect (but the only logical) way to determine the SOS when there are so few OOC games. Minnesota State fans are accutely aware of this. For the past 2, or maybe 3, season, MSU has had a top 5 SOS going into January. By the end of the year, we are typically somewhere around 20 or lower and there is little to nothing that we can do about it. On the other hand, the Big Ten pounds away at the AHA and the NCHC demolishes the lower end of the CCHA and it drives their SOS up. I'm not saying there is anything that can be done about it, but this is just the reality of the way things work (at least in the west) due to the way the conferences are made up.

 

[StateofHockey78]

heck, even bu had a couple two game winning streaks last season. big deal

Look, I'm not trying to defend the notion of whether the conference is better than another. One strong season does not validate a conference that hasn't proved anything yet. I do think it's closing the gap.

 

[StateofHockey78]

I mean, I'm not sure what people expected. The NCHC has done this for years and many of the Big Ten teams have done this for years. This was the inevitable result for putting all of the power teams in the west in the same conferences. We just didn't see it with the Big Ten right away because so many schools had down years out of the gate. If so many of the top end teams are in the same conferences and can't schedule each other in the non-conference, of course they are going to be playing lower end teams. When it's cost prohibitive to be flying all around the country to seek out top competition. Now, you have a bunch of teams that in recent history are not very good and that is who the power conferences have the ability to schedule. You end up with Penn State scheduling a lot of AHA teams and lower end ECAC schools (which was obviously by design) and you have the NCHC and Big Ten school scheduling the lower end CCHA schools (because there is really only 1 or 2 schools that have taken advantage of the weak conference). The math just automatically works this way. I'm not as familiar as Michigan's schedule, but I'll give Minnesota a lot of credit. They typically have a ridiculous out of conference schedule. It just so happens that UND is down this year and it was an off year for the UMD schedule (although that wouldn't have helped this year either)so that drags down the SOS for both of those conferences.

The above poster is correct though, winning out of conference is everything. It's an imperfect (but the only logical) way to determine the SOS when there are so few OOC games. Minnesota State fans are accutely aware of this. For the past 2, or maybe 3, season, MSU has had a top 5 SOS going into January. By the end of the year, we are typically somewhere around 20 or lower and there is little to nothing that we can do about it. On the other hand, the Big Ten pounds away at the AHA and the NCHC demolishes the lower end of the CCHA and it drives their SOS up. I'm not saying there is anything that can be done about it, but this is just the reality of the way things work (at least in the west) due to the way the conferences are made up.

I agree with you - UND and UMD are the main reason the NCHC isn't sitting on top of the polls yet again this year. I've only seen a few games earlier in the season of MSU, are they finally starting to heat up?

 

[Bale]

I agree with you - UND and UMD are the main reason the NCHC isn't sitting on top of the polls yet again this year. I've only seen a few games earlier in the season of MSU, are they finally starting to heat up?

So, so.....they show some promise and then give up a game or two here or there. The slow starts are crazy, we may as well spot ever team we play a goal at the beginning of the game because that's almost always happening. Seems like we've got a few guys that seem to think they were just going to walk through the schedule again this year and are making dumb plays on a nightly basis that cost goals. When they play to their talent level, they can compete with anyone in any style, but just don't seem to get up for some games and don't have Dryden McKay there to make up for their mistakes.

Injuries also caught up to us. Our leading scorer (MOrton) in the first 9 games wa checked from behind in the 10th game and, I think, tore up his knee and is out for the year. A defenseman (Zmolek) who was on the all-rookie team last year hasn't played a game and has had a couple of hip surgeries. A senior (Sowder) has been out for the last month due to a sports hernia (that poor guy can't catch a break, he was the rookie of the year as a freshman and hasn't not missed significant time each year since). And our top recruit has just played his first 6 games after tearing his ACL last March.

 

[StateofHockey78]

So, so.....they show some promise and then give up a game or two here or there. The slow starts are crazy, we may as well spot ever team we play a goal at the beginning of the game because that's almost always happening. Seems like we've got a few guys that seem to think they were just going to walk through the schedule again this year and are making dumb plays on a nightly basis that cost goals. When they play to their talent level, they can compete with anyone in any style, but just don't seem to get up for some games and don't have Dryden McKay there to make up for their mistakes.

Injuries also caught up to us. Our leading scorer (MOrton) in the first 9 games wa checked from behind in the 10th game and, I think, tore up his knee and is out for the year. A defenseman (Zmolek) who was on the all-rookie team last year hasn't played a game and has had a couple of hip surgeries. A senior (Sowder) has been out for the last month due to a sports hernia (that poor guy can't catch a break, he was the rookie of the year as a freshman and hasn't not missed significant time each year since). And our top recruit has just played his first 6 games after tearing his ACL last March.

So really what you're saying is they are holding it together pretty well considering. No offense, but I really don't want to hear that Ole'Ole'Ole' ringing in my ears again this postseason haha. I've never seen a team dominate us that badly as they did the last two postseasons.

 

[Bale]

So really what you're saying is they are holding it together pretty well considering. No offense, but I really don't want to hear that Ole'Ole'Ole' ringing in my ears again this postseason haha. I've never seen a team dominate us that badly as they did the last two postseasons.

The fan base is getting pretty restless....of course, a lot of people don't realize that kind of run isn't/can't last. It just doesn't work that way.

There was a point that I was really hoping we'd end up being an AQ and facing MN in the first round. And then I realized it would be more fun to meet in the final. I'm stickign with that.

 

[brassbonanza]

This was interesting to me about the Big Ten out-of-conference schedule. The league played 70 non-conference games this season, and if the NCAA tournament started today only 17 of them will have been against teams in the field.

6 - Michigan (2 vs WMU, 2 vs Harvard, 2 vs BU)
4 - Minnesota (2 vs SCSU, 2 vs MnSt)
4 - Notre Dame (2 vs WMU, Denver, SCSU)
2 - Wisconsin (2 vs SCSU)
1 - Michigan State (Tech)

Ohio State and Penn State did not play another team who will be in the field unless they earn an auto-bid.

The average PairWise rank for each Big Ten team's out-of-conference opponents:

23rd - Notre Dame
28th - Michigan, Minnesota
33rd - Michigan State
37th - Penn State
44th - Wisconsin
47th - Ohio State

That's objectively weak scheduling, and the Big Ten is benefitting from it in the PairWise.

You missed here that Notre Dame played BU.

 

[Lost_Husky]

This was interesting to me about the Big Ten out-of-conference schedule. The league played 70 non-conference games this season, and if the NCAA tournament started today only 17 of them will have been against teams in the field.

6 - Michigan (2 vs WMU, 2 vs Harvard, 2 vs BU)
4 - Minnesota (2 vs SCSU, 2 vs MnSt)
4 - Notre Dame (2 vs WMU, Denver, SCSU)
2 - Wisconsin (2 vs SCSU)
1 - Michigan State (Tech)

Ohio State and Penn State did not play another team who will be in the field unless they earn an auto-bid.

The average PairWise rank for each Big Ten team's out-of-conference opponents:

23rd - Notre Dame
28th - Michigan, Minnesota
33rd - Michigan State
37th - Penn State
44th - Wisconsin
47th - Ohio State

That's objectively weak scheduling, and the Big Ten is benefitting from it in the PairWise.

OSU played #14 UConn 2x.

Cut some of the B1G schools some slack. They can't help that certain teams are down (NoDak, BC, UMD) or they played a local team. I'll go so far as giving a pass to a single series against an Independent, but not two of them like Wisconsin (Lindenwood and LIU).

That leaves PSU as knowingly scheduled perceived weak programs (Canisius, Mercyhurst, and St Thomas) and they got lucky with rankings of 2 teams (RIT and Alaska) or their SOS would be laughable.

All that said, we will see how those teams that get in do.

 

[StateofHockey78]

Cut some of the B1G schools some slack. They can't help that certain teams are down (NoDak, BC, UMD) or they played a local team. I'll go so far as giving a pass to a single series against an Independent, but not two of them like Wisconsin (Lindenwood and LIU).

That leaves PSU as knowingly scheduled perceived weak programs (Canisius, Mercyhurst, and St Thomas) and they got lucky with rankings of 2 teams (RIT and Alaska) or their SOS would be laughable.

All that said, we will see how those teams that get in do.

I agree PSU non-conf is silly, especially the first three teams. At the same time, I don't think even their coach thought they'd be this competitive this year. I think the coaches picked them to finish last or 2nd to last in the pre-season.

As far as independents go, I don't think that's as bad depending on who you schedule. Case in point ASU & Alaska. While ASU isn't as good this year, they have been a solid opponent for many, especially at home. If you are loading up on the bottom feeders however, that's lame.

 

[purpleinnebraska]

OSU played #14 UConn 2x.

Cut some of the B1G schools some slack. They can't help that certain teams are down (NoDak, BC, UMD) or they played a local team. I'll go so far as giving a pass to a single series against an Independent, but not two of them like Wisconsin (Lindenwood and LIU).

That leaves PSU as knowingly scheduled perceived weak programs (Canisius, Mercyhurst, and St Thomas) and they got lucky with rankings of 2 teams (RIT and Alaska) or their SOS would be laughable.

All that said, we will see how those teams that get in do.

It's a lot easier to cut OSU some slack. They've played a lot of non-conf road games, and their in-state rivals, Miami and BGSU are both down a little this year. And the Independents need games, so it's good that some teams are helping keep those programs alive. But the Penn State schedule is indefensible and happens every year.

 

[model94]

We will see what this year has to offer. The B1G has always talked a good game and everyone crows about their draft pick darlings. Come the NCAA's... all we hear is excuses.

Just like the CF semis.

 

[TalonsUpPuckDown]

It's a lot easier to cut OSU some slack. They've played a lot of non-conf road games, and their in-state rivals, Miami and BGSU are both down a little this year. And the Independents need games, so it's good that some teams are helping keep those programs alive. But the Penn State schedule is indefensible and happens every year.

The Buckeyes don't play Miami State and haven't for years and won't for the foreseeable future.

 

[model94]

And how'd that work out?

Same as for football this year.

 

[Speed Kills]

I'd like to point out that the chances of the B1G getting 6 into the NCAA's is now virtually zero as Notre Dame is highly unlikely to finish above .500 & therefore not eligible unless they win the conference tournament.

So what? They're getting at least 4, maybe 5, which is 1 or 2 more than the holier than thou NCHC.

 

[moose97]

So what? They're getting at least 4, maybe 5, which is 1 or 2 more than the holier than thou NCHC.

Who hurt you?

 

[Speed Kills]

Who hurt you?

Absolutely nobody. What possessed you to ask such a random question that has nothing to do with what is being discussed in this thread? Now please let's try to stay on topic.

 

[UncleRay]

Absolutely nobody. What possessed you to ask such a random question that has nothing to do with what is being discussed in this thread? Now please let's try to stay on topic.

That's right, moosie man. And the topic is:
The Biggies are the best,
The Biggies are the bomb.
If you don't admit it,
I'll go cry to my mom!

 

[Lost_Husky]

So what? They're getting at least 4, maybe 5, which is 1 or 2 more than the holier than thou NCHC.

Holier than thou NCHC? Going by their 10 year history, they have won 5 national championships in the last 6 NCAA tournaments. They have earned the right to gloat about being the top conference. It has only taken the B1G 10 years since they blew up western college hockey conferences to become relevant in the national conversation.

 

[model94]

Holier than thou NCHC? Going by their 10 year history, they have won 5 national championships in the last 6 NCAA tournaments. They have earned the right to gloat about being the top conference. It has only taken the B1G 10 years since they blew up western college hockey conferences to become relevant in the national conversation.

He’s crediting national championships won by current B10 schools before the conference existed as national championships won by the B10. So be careful getting into a debate.

 

[StateofHockey78]

He’s crediting national championships won by current B10 schools before the conference existed as national championships won by the B10. So be careful getting into a debate.

The original debate posted is flawed. All we have to do is look at the relevancy of those championships in today's game. Most of those chips in the B1G are from ages ago. I'm a MN guy and I don't think there's any doubt what the strongest conference is right now, NCHC. That may change, but today it's still the cream. One down year is not a trend. Whether they can hold onto that claim in 5 years is a different story.