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Latest pairwise rankings

Well we were pretty close to having Denver in Allentown with Penn State and Michigan in Manchester with BU. That could have potentially led to an all Big Ten FF. Albeit a Minnesota-Michigan semifinal and then PSU-OSU. That would have been unfortunate really to have Minnesota-Michigan be a semifinal in that scenario. Didn't it take a Denver loss to CC and Michigan win over Minnesota to flip those two? I think the Big Ten can live with having two in the FF and quite possibly a third.
 
J.D. said:
Well we were pretty close to having Denver in Allentown with Penn State and Michigan in Manchester with BU. That could have potentially led to an all Big Ten FF. Albeit a Minnesota-Michigan semifinal and then PSU-OSU. That would have been unfortunate really to have Minnesota-Michigan be a semifinal in that scenario. Didn't it take a Denver loss to CC and Michigan win over Minnesota to flip those two? I think the Big Ten can live with having two in the FF and quite possibly a third.
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I think most believe both Minnesota and Michigan belong in the Frozen Four and the majority expect Michigan to win today. That being said, it seems at least arguable, in light of what both OSU and PSU did to their opponents in the first round, that they may have been a bit underrated, in part because of having to play each other at least 4 times and both Michigan and Minnesota 4 times each, for a total of 12 games vs 3 teams who easily got into the Final 8 of the NCAA tourney and could all end up in the Frozen Four, and in part because of early season losses that may not reflect how good they are now? So if PSU beats Michigan, I'm pretty sure many are coming to believe that PSU might be one of the Top 4 teams in the country? Or at least good enough to beat one of the Top 4 teams. And I don't think any of us knows how the OSU vs Q game is going to go. Q easily deserved the #2 ranking they had going into the tourney, but as all rankings struggle with in most sports, it's almost impossible to know for sure if Q really is the 2nd best team in the nation. If OSU beats them, it won't necessarily mean that Q was overrated, at least not by much, but maybe just that OSU was underrated. Looking back in retrospect, I could see poll voters ranking both OSU & PSU higher, above both Denver and SCSU, in part because of how each of those two performed individually, but also how all 3 of the NCHC teams performed as a group, it would seem looking at just their NCAA tourney performances, that all 3 of them were overrated, maybe not by a large amount as 3 games is not a lot to go by. I'm trying to be cautious as with any single elimination tournament it's hard to make big time assessments from one single game. Rankings, especially ones like the PWR, take into account games from an entire season, so teams that may have been playing very well in the ooc portion of the season, early on, will contribute to their own team either being overrated by the end of the season or will contribute to other teams in their conference that beat them getting overrated and teams that struggled early on but then improve as the season nears it's end will be underrated or will contribute to teams they beat in conf play being possibly underrated.


Being a sort of perfectionist, I'd love to see the losers of the 1st round games have to play in a consolation bracket with the winners playing the losers of the 2nd round games, and possibly the winners then playing the losers of the Semi final games, maybe, or those 2 could instead just play each other for 3rd place, so that we could better assess who the 3rd best team is, and the 5th and the 7th and maybe even the 9th as well, as long as I'm being ridiculously obsessive about it, lol. I'd predict that all 4 B1G teams would end up finishing in the Top 6-8 with Q and BU and maybe Cornell also finishing in the Top 6-8 as well and I'd predict SCSU being in there as well, but it's also possible Denver would recover in the Consolation bracket and get into the Top 6-8. In this format, I'm not sure if 3 B1G teams would finish in the Top 4 which seems possible today, but 2 would for sure, imo, and it would be at least possible that all 4 finished Top 4 and probably more likely that 3 would seeing as 2 B1G teams playing before the Frozen Four wouldn't necessarily eliminate the loser.

Now this kind of format, similar to what they do at the NCAA Wrestling tournament would never happen as it would be too hard to orchestrate and a lot of fans wouldn't be willing to make the efforts or pay the money for tickets or be willing to take the time off to see multiple games that wouldn't result in the winner getting a shot at the Natl Title. I'd be willing to look back at the attendance records to see how many people went to see the 3rd place games back when they held them, but even then it was just a 2nd game on the Championship weekend that most fans probably made sure they had clear anyways, they wanted to see 2 games, so better see a 3rd place game than go home early and sad. But multiple games in a Consolation bracket just wouldn't work for hockey, as much as a dork like myself would like to see it happen. People like me can look back in retrospect after the games are all played to make educated guesses as to how each team would have fared, and I'd love to speculate on past seasons, believing for example that Minnesota would have run over their opponents in the consolation bracket the year they lost to Holy Cross in the first round and could have finished with at least a 5th place finish if that was the extent of the consolation bracket, or maybe even could have pulled off a 3rd place finish, seeing as they were the #1 overall seeded team going in and earned that seeding with an entire season of superior performances. But such speculations would only be worth it if there was nothing better to do with a person's time.
 
FredsDeadFriend said:
I think most believe both Minnesota and Michigan belong in the Frozen Four and the majority expect Michigan to win today. That being said, it seems at least arguable, in light of what both OSU and PSU did to their opponents in the first round, that they may have been a bit underrated, in part because of having to play each other at least 4 times and both Michigan and Minnesota 4 times each, for a total of 12 games vs 3 teams who easily got into the Final 8 of the NCAA tourney and could all end up in the Frozen Four, and in part because of early season losses that may not reflect how good they are now? So if PSU beats Michigan, I'm pretty sure many are coming to believe that PSU might be one of the Top 4 teams in the country? Or at least good enough to beat one of the Top 4 teams. And I don't think any of us knows how the OSU vs Q game is going to go. Q easily deserved the #2 ranking they had going into the tourney, but as all rankings struggle with in most sports, it's almost impossible to know for sure if Q really is the 2nd best team in the nation. If OSU beats them, it won't necessarily mean that Q was overrated, at least not by much, but maybe just that OSU was underrated. Looking back in retrospect, I could see poll voters ranking both OSU & PSU higher, above both Denver and SCSU, in part because of how each of those two performed individually, but also how all 3 of the NCHC teams performed as a group, it would seem looking at just their NCAA tourney performances, that all 3 of them were overrated, maybe not by a large amount as 3 games is not a lot to go by. I'm trying to be cautious as with any single elimination tournament it's hard to make big time assessments from one single game. Rankings, especially ones like the PWR, take into account games from an entire season, so teams that may have been playing very well in the ooc portion of the season, early on, will contribute to their own team either being overrated by the end of the season or will contribute to other teams in their conference that beat them getting overrated and teams that struggled early on but then improve as the season nears it's end will be underrated or will contribute to teams they beat in conf play being possibly underrated.


Being a sort of perfectionist, I'd love to see the losers of the 1st round games have to play in a consolation bracket with the winners playing the losers of the 2nd round games, and possibly the winners then playing the losers of the Semi final games, maybe, or those 2 could instead just play each other for 3rd place, so that we could better assess who the 3rd best team is, and the 5th and the 7th and maybe even the 9th as well, as long as I'm being ridiculously obsessive about it, lol. I'd predict that all 4 B1G teams would end up finishing in the Top 6-8 with Q and BU and maybe Cornell also finishing in the Top 6-8 as well and I'd predict SCSU being in there as well, but it's also possible Denver would recover in the Consolation bracket and get into the Top 6-8. In this format, I'm not sure if 3 B1G teams would finish in the Top 4 which seems possible today, but 2 would for sure, imo, and it would be at least possible that all 4 finished Top 4 and probably more likely that 3 would seeing as 2 B1G teams playing before the Frozen Four wouldn't necessarily eliminate the loser.

Now this kind of format, similar to what they do at the NCAA Wrestling tournament would never happen as it would be too hard to orchestrate and a lot of fans wouldn't be willing to make the efforts or pay the money for tickets or be willing to take the time off to see multiple games that wouldn't result in the winner getting a shot at the Natl Title. I'd be willing to look back at the attendance records to see how many people went to see the 3rd place games back when they held them, but even then it was just a 2nd game on the Championship weekend that most fans probably made sure they had clear anyways, they wanted to see 2 games, so better see a 3rd place game than go home early and sad. But multiple games in a Consolation bracket just wouldn't work for hockey, as much as a dork like myself would like to see it happen. People like me can look back in retrospect after the games are all played to make educated guesses as to how each team would have fared, and I'd love to speculate on past seasons, believing for example that Minnesota would have run over their opponents in the consolation bracket the year they lost to Holy Cross in the first round and could have finished with at least a 5th place finish if that was the extent of the consolation bracket, or maybe even could have pulled off a 3rd place finish, seeing as they were the #1 overall seeded team going in and earned that seeding with an entire season of superior performances. But such speculations would only be worth it if there was nothing better to do with a person's time.
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At one time I put together a double elimination tournament, which would go something like:
Week 1: 4 teams at each of four sites, with everyone playing 2 games. Double losers are eliminated. Leaves 12 teams.
Week 2: 6 teams at each of 2 sites. Friday PM and Eve: 2 elimination games, leaving 2 teams with one loss, and 2 unbeatens. Sat early PM: Unbeatens play for a spot in the FF. Sat eve: Winners from Friday play elimination game. Sun: Loser from Sat PM plays winner from Sat eve for another spot in the FF.
Week 3: Frozen Four

But someone pointed out that Week 1 doesn't decide much, so you wouldn't get much fan following. And, the NCAA wouldn't go for it anyway.
 
FredsDeadFriend said:
Of course he knows that. lol They've almost all been very quiet lately. He's probably wondering where they are today, why they aren't in here eating crow? Maybe he thinks they should be, hence why he's asking where they are today?
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I mean it would at least make sense if people had actually been saying it this year
 
J.D. said:
I mean it would at least make sense if people had actually been saying it this year
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I saw people arguing with Speed Kills earlier in the season. He claimed the B1G's early season ooc successes garnered the conference the most high ranked teams and he pointed out how the NCHC was one of the worst performing conferences in the early season ooc part of the season and several people were dismissing him and trying to claim it was too early to make such declarations. My impression was that he was blowing the B1G's horn and most everyone was either ignoring him or trying to argue with him or they were sort of poking fun of him. So imo, he earned the right to come in and talk some sh1t and ask why no one was in here eating crow.

And he's been registered at the site for a long time so it's easily possible he is remembering what people were saying last year or for many years now. NCHC fans had been talking sh1t about the B1G for a long time now.


People, in general, forget how the NCHC and B1G came about.

The dominant WCHA broke apart when UMn and UW left to join the B1G and then FIVE of the WCHA's better teams joined up with 3 of the CCHA's not so great teams to form the NCHC. Everyone knows that part.

But looking closer you see that the CCHA was the lesser conference compared to the WCHA and the new B1G was mostly made up of former CCHA teams, 3 of the 6 initial teams, and both UMn and UW of the old WCHA were going through one of their rougher patches in their last 60 or so years. The 6th B1G team was a brand new program that obviously would need time to grow and mature. It's also not like Michigan was crushing it lately, with their last title in the 20th Century and OSU had only been to something like 1 Frozen Four in it's entire history. NDm had only been to 2 or 3 and Mich St had one good season in something like 20 years when the B1G started up.

So the NCHC got a majority of their new teams from among the best teams of the best conference, the old WCHA. Denver and North Dakota and CC are all blue bloods and UMD and SCSU were hungry programs gaining steam with the Gophers taking a break from dominating. Minnesota high school hockey players were finally starting to look at UMD and SCSU as a first choice and not just their plan B if the Gophers didn't court them. They both had more ability to thrive in a smaller conference with fewer super powers to contend with. In the WCHA they had to recruit against and compete with DU, UND, UMn, UW & CC, for recruits and tourney spots with fewer spots available. The expansion of the tourney field as well as an additional conference along with their new conference being a smaller one with a much larger percentage of crappy teams being part of the conference allowed for both SCSU and UMD to thrive in the new NCHC.

So the NCHC was able to start out with a bang, but their being a conference of nothing but small schools with no football or bb money coming in meant that their time at the top was NOT going to last forever as many NCHC fans seemed to believe. The B1G, with it's fb and bb money coming in and it's big time TV contracts and it's own network and each school being one of the bigger schools in the nation, after a few years to recover from slumps/get new coaches, allow new rivalries to develop and heat up, were destined to rise above the NCHC, and not just for the occasional good season, which this year may still be? But in time it should be an almost every season thing. This year could be the first of a long string of dominating seasons or it could just be a single preview of things to come years into the future? Wisconsin now needs a new coach and if they get a good one, should be back to competing at a higher level soon and would leave the conference crammed full of nationally competitive teams unless one of them falls off for whatever reason, which wouldn't be a bad thing if all 7 teams weren't good all at the same time. The only obstacle will be not beating each other up too much. But the ones who end up at the top of the conference should perform very well in the NCAA tourney going forward as long as B1G teams can keep bringing in top recruits to replace the early departing superstars that they will surely lose after performing well in the NCAA tourney.
 
J.D. said:
Dominating 16 shot performance from QU
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The difference in that game was that QU could deal with OSU's forecheck, as they are really good on D. The pressure really gets under the skin of offensive minded teams- like what happened to Michigan earlier this season and Harvard Friday. Q's D meant everything that game.
 
mookie1995 said:
They magically appear this way due to pedd state scheduling tomato cans at home.
if instead of going 10-0-0 against this embarrassing laughable lineup, pedd st lost them, the big ten would currently have 3 teams (goofs-2, umich-8, tOSU-13). nd would be next closest at #21. And instead of on the bubble at 16, sparty would be 25.

see how the big ten, with one decent team in conf play LOOKS strong?
the rest are middle of the pack who would struggle in nchc or even ccha or wcha a couple years ago. (And even the goofs are 1-3-0 ooc away from the mooch
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This aged HORRIBLY!!! lmao@themooch


I mean, there are 15 minutes left, so PSU could miss out on the Frozen Four, but right now they are beating the #3 overall seeded Michigan Wolverines.
 
J.D. said:
Not saying much but this is certainly the best game of the tournament so far
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I'm torn as to who to cheer for. Part of me wants the Gophers to get a chance to avenge their loss to Michigan in the B1G Tourney Title game, and Michigan winning also keeps some NHL teams wanting, lol. Not sure how many of Michigan's players are leaving early if they lose this game, but I've got to guess it's a couple and some NHL people are cheering for them to lose. The other part of me doesn't want Michigan to notch another Frozen Four and they scare me more than PSU would. Would be nice for PSU being a new program to get into the Frozen Four.

Never mind. lol
 
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