"Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

With logic like that we might see Lebanon Valley in the tournament.

Remember the year that Castleton, when they won only one game, was declared the Division I top team using this logic?

 

[one_to7]

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Derek, no offense, but just stop posting if you're going to pontificate about teams you have seen zero times this or any other year.

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Derek, no offense, but just stop posting if you're going to pontificate about teams you have seen zero times this or any other year.

All I understood him to be doing was an attempt at giving the Adrian @ Oswego some statistical significance. Derek never actually said any one team (that he's never seen) was better than any other. However much of a stretch it was, all he was saying was that an Adrian win would help the West in Pool C comparisons.

Unless I'm horribly misreading his post...

 

[NorthernLite]

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Derek, no offense, but just stop posting if you're going to pontificate about teams you have seen zero times this or any other year.

Perhaps you're being a little harsh on Prez.

Afterall the criteria he refers to is actually applied in principle by the Committees,...... and they often make decisions that concern teams they have seen zero times this or any other year.

 

[Hockey NutCase]

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

How do they keep their eyes open in that 'smoke filled room'? What are they smoking? And drinking, come selection time? I thought the game was darts.

 

[Ozz]

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Perhaps you're being a little harsh on Prez.

Afterall the criteria he refers to is actually applied in principle by the Committees,...... and they often make decisions that concern teams they have seen zero times this or any other year.

DIII hockey isn't exactly a sport you can turn to ESPN and watch so quite often you do have to make generalizations about teams that you will never actually see play or see very few times. It comes with the territory.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

DIII hockey isn't exactly a sport you can turn to ESPN and watch so quite often you do have to make generalizations about teams that you will never actually see play or see very few times. It comes with the territory.

True, but thanks to more and more games being broadcasted people from all over can get opinions on more teams...granted it may be only a handful of times, but 10-15 years ago it was huge if a team even had their games on local radio, forget about live online.....with in the next 10 year you will see even more teams streaming their games live...

 

[Matthew Webb]

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Remember the year that Castleton, when they won only one game, was declared the Division I top team using this logic?

While humorous, the problem is that the original logic is 100% wrong and only serves to confuse everyone.

That sort of comparative lateral thinking in terms of results has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with how the committee selects the teams. None. Zero. Nada. And contending that the few thousandths of a point that one non-conference game will change OOWP (but only if its somehow magically applied via secondary criteria, which it never has been and never will be) as evidence that the A beat B who beat C who beat their wife crap is anything remotely close to valid is an abject joke.

Though, of course since it involves Elmira and Oswego it must be hypercritical to the entire process, I guess.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Derek, no offense, but just stop posting if you're going to pontificate about teams you have seen zero times this or any other year.

Perhaps we should just make the this the Webb and Scott Forum?

You guys are becoming worse than the muffy and trevors.

As cardsruletheburgh said, I was simply providing statistical meaning for the matchups.

I'm not claiming to know the ins and outs of the western teams. You talk an awful big game about Eastern teams that you havent seen in how many years now?

Why is it okay for you to "pontificate" but no one else?

And if you think Adrian doesn't care about the fact they are playing the #1 team in the nation after two years of being shot down because they don't play anybody you're dreaming.

I don't need to "see" them play to know that. It's a fact of sport.

Am i going to have to listen to your prattling about how I don't know anything after I actually witness these two teams play on Friday?

 

[one_to7]

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

If css beats Hamline and Adrian beats Oswego, common opponents does not come in to play. That would be common opponents opponents, which is a terrible way to guage teams. You can't get into a game of 'this team beat that team who beat this other team who tied this team who beat another team' or else you end up with absurd scenarios all around. Such as cortland obviously being a top team because they beat morrissville who beat Potsdam who tied Norwich and Plattsburgh.

I have no doubt Oswego is a very good team, but discounting hamline's wins over Adrian by saying the bulldogs were obviously looking ahead is childish. If you think coach fogerty would let his team come into the weekend with that mindset, or that it would stick around after losing the firstgame, then I don't know what to say. Are you going to discount hamline's wins over eau Claire, point, and their tie at St Norbert the same way? If the pipers split this weekend they'll be sitting at 9-2-2, and if they sweep they'll have the top record in the west at 10-1-2. Those kind of results don't happen by accident.

I'm not saying they're the clear cut top western team, a lock for the ncaa's or that they're going to stomp their way to a national title, but they're a very good team with some great defense and goaltending. Simply discouting their wins over another good team is a discredit to them both. 'gut feelings about who is good' is not a selection criteria for the committee, even if it may play a small role in how they view things.

Edit: the problem I have with your post is that you're attempting to put common opponents in play with css and Oswego when they have no common opponents, as well as your (and other eastern posters) discounting Hamline as lucky. Saying that Adrian was looking ahead of Hamline doesn't add statistical weight to the game with Oswego, it's you talking about two teams you know nothing about. If Adrian beats Oswego, at this rate I expect more than one person to wonder how Hamline managed to beat them twice, which is asinine.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

If css beats Hamline and Adrian beats Oswego, common opponents does not come in to play. That would be common opponents opponents, which is a terrible way to guage teams. You can't get into a game of 'this team beat that team who beat this other team who tied this team who beat another team' or else you end up with absurd scenarios all around. Such as cortland obviously being a top team because they beat morrissville who beat Potsdam who tied Norwich and Plattsburgh.

I have no doubt Oswego is a very good team, but discounting hamline's wins over Adrian by saying the bulldogs were obviously looking ahead is childish. If you think coach fogerty would let his team come into the weekend with that mindset, or that it would stick around after losing the firstgame, then I don't know what to say. Are you going to discount hamline's wins over eau Claire, point, and their tie at St Norbert the same way? If the pipers split this weekend they'll be sitting at 9-2-2, and if they sweep they'll have the top record in the west at 10-1-2. Those kind of results don't happen by accident.

I'm not saying they're the clear cut top western team, a lock for the ncaa's or that they're going to stomp their way to a national title, but they're a very good team with some great defense and goaltending. Simply discouting their wins over another good team is a discredit to them both. 'gut feelings about who is good' is not a selection criteria for the committee, even if it may play a small role in how they view things.

I'm not discounting anything.

All I did was provide a hypothetical situation. Judging from what Webb has told me I know Adrian is a legit team, as is Hamline.

However, results speak louder than any of our words correct? When the committee gets together they look at results. Like it not it does come down to who beat who etc. If Adrian beats the #1 team in the East that has beaten Elmira twice and Plattsburgh, that has to give the Western teams more credibility in the eyes of the smoke filled room.

I wasn't saying Adrian was looking ahead. You and Webb were the ones that told me that you thought Adrian was going to get atleast one win in convincing fashion.

Where did I say Hamline was lucky? I believed both of you when you said you thought they were top 10 teams. I think Adrian can go a long ways towards proving that fact for the rest of the non-believers this weekend by skating on the same ice as the almost unanimous #1 team in the country in both fans and coaches eyes right now.

 

[Matthew Webb]

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

You and Webb were the ones that told me that you thought Adrian was going to get atleast one win in convincing fashion.

Off to Drake for Adrian-Hamline...

Very rarely at this point do I attend a game and have no idea what to expect, no less one involving two top ten teams. About all I know is that these games won't be short on speed.

Should be a very interesting weekend here...

http://board.uscho.com/showpost.php?p=4540770&postcount=14


Seriously, sometimes. I predicted a split to every freaking person I talked to about it. Figured they were closely matched and that was about all I had to go on. Hence, a split. Never once did I ever say anything about Adrian winning in "convincing" fashion. Never. I'm the guy who has been banging Hamline's drum for two years and I'm the last person on the planet who would underestimate them. Someone needs to hire you a personal factchecker.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

http://board.uscho.com/showpost.php?p=4540770&postcount=14


Seriously, sometimes. I predicted a split to every freaking person I talked to about it. Figured they were closely matched and that was about all I had to go on. Hence, a split. Never once did I ever say anything about Adrian winning in "convincing" fashion. Never. I'm the guy who has been banging Hamline's drum for two years and I'm the last person on the planet who would underestimate them. Someone needs to hire you a personal factchecker.

You told me via text you expected Adrian to win easily the first night and then the second game would be a crapshoot.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

You told me via text you expected Adrian to win easily the first night and then the second game would be a crapshoot.

Excuse #1?
Car keys and cell phones should be taken when drinking

I am with Derek on this one, people (aside from Adrian followers and lovers) have been waiting for 3 years now to see where they stack up against some of the best teams in the country. Webb may be a Hamlin lover, supporter, advocater whatever but not too many people know who Hamlin is...until this year..and even then I couldn't tell you where on a map Hamlin is, other then they play at Drake arena.

On the other hand Oswego is a perenial top team. (Please NL don't go off on the top/good/average team thing here). If you honestly think Adrian won't be pumped to play the #1 team in the nation (never been done)...heck they've never played a top 10 team until Hamlin (and I'm still not sold on Hamlin)..then you need to have your noggin checked.

This IS Adrians biggest game in their history period. IF, BIG IF, they win it will open eyes to a lot of people, including those who make selections. Now that doesn't mean they are a shoe in if they win, but it sure makes Hamlin's wins look bigger in the overall picture. Sure in the end the wins and loses between the two are just fodder, but for 3 years now its been back and forth..Adrian doesn't get in because they don't play anyone, Adrian doesn't get in because no one will play Adrian....its put up or shut up time now. If you don't want to see it that way, then you must be looking for an excuse when they lose.

 

[Matthew Webb]

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Excuse #1?
Car keys and cell phones should be taken when drinking

Geez, someone ask Bridges about my thoughts prior to last weekend. I live with the guy and we talk DIII all the time. Never even once to him did I say I expected Adrian to come out and win convincingly. Closest I might have come was saying Adrian could win by three or more if they got a bunch of PP's and went 5/9 or something, which is something they have shown the ability to do, albeit against lesser competition, so it would be interesting to see what they could do againt Hamline's PK which has been off the charts this year.

Webb may be a Hamlin lover, supporter, advocater whatever but not too many people know who Hamlin is...until this year..and even then I couldn't tell you where on a map Hamlin is, other then they play at Drake arena.

Not so much a lover or supporter, but what I've pointed out is that under Scott Bell they have quietly assembled a team full of productive Tier II Junior A players and a couple DI transfers (and a MJ kid). In that regard they are setting the curve in the MIAC, which has always been my point. Beginning last year in particular the results have shown that the efforts are clearly paying off. I've mentioned it numerous times over the past few years as the MIAC is often overlooked, and I think its top teams are consistently underrated due to the conference as a whole's relatively weak record against the NCHA most seasons.

Since Hamline tied at SNC earlier in the year I have not had Hamline ranked below 7th or 8th (don't recall), as I've consistently been ranking SNC, CSS, Adrian and Hamline as one block, though in varying orders. Though the order within that group has varied I haven't been able to break it up as to this point I haven't seen anything from any of the four that clearly distinguishes it from the others. They are all very good, but are any great? I'm not so sure.

I try to be as objective and realistic as possible, same way I was last year when I told everyone not to be surprised if Gustavus went up to Superior and won in the quarters and was laughed at. As such, I never even thought to myself that Adrian was going to go into Hamline and put the stomp down.

The Bulldogs have already beaten two of them (Concordia and St. John's) and if (and thats a gigantic "if") they convincingly beat Hamline twice it will help, and the question then becomes "how much does it help?"

 

[Scott Bridges]

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

It's Hamline.

No one said adrian wasn't going to be pumped up to face Oswego, I'm sure they will be the same way they were focused in on Hamline. However, someone did imply however that they had overlooked hamline, which only serves to discount any credit they earned by winning.

Remy, I doubt many plattsburgh fans could have found neumann on a map before last season, but that didn't exactly have anything to do with how the games went down. I'm not sure what anyone's geography skills have to do with the merits of a team's record or skill.

All webb said leading up to the game was that he had no idea what to expect, which is a rarity. I wouldn't have been surprised to see Hamline win one and lose one, but apart from someone being thrashed handily, nothing would have really surprised me results-wise considering I didn't know what to expect from Adrian.

 

[OZFEST]

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Excuse #1?
Car keys and cell phones should be taken when drinking

I am with Derek on this one, people (aside from Adrian followers and lovers) have been waiting for 3 years now to see where they stack up against some of the best teams in the country. Webb may be a Hamlin lover, supporter, advocater whatever but not too many people know who Hamlin is...until this year..and even then I couldn't tell you where on a map Hamlin is, other then they play at Drake arena.

On the other hand Oswego is a perenial top team. (Please NL don't go off on the top/good/average team thing here). If you honestly think Adrian won't be pumped to play the #1 team in the nation (never been done)...heck they've never played a top 10 team until Hamlin (and I'm still not sold on Hamlin)..then you need to have your noggin checked.

This IS Adrians biggest game in their history period. IF, BIG IF, they win it will open eyes to a lot of people, including those who make selections. Now that doesn't mean they are a shoe in if they win, but it sure makes Hamlin's wins look bigger in the overall picture. Sure in the end the wins and loses between the two are just fodder, but for 3 years now its been back and forth..Adrian doesn't get in because they don't play anyone, Adrian doesn't get in because no one will play Adrian....its put up or shut up time now. If you don't want to see it that way, then you must be looking for an excuse when they lose.

The best summary on the state of Adrian to date-great post-in fact. Which causes me to ask since the game is upon in a few short days, Has anyone seen both Adrian and Oswego play this year?

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

The best summary on the state of Adrian to date-great post-in fact. Which causes me to ask since the game is upon in a few short days, Has anyone seen both Adrian and Oswego play this year?

No, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express...

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

It's Hamline.

No one said adrian wasn't going to be pumped up to face Oswego, I'm sure they will be the same way they were focused in on Hamline. However, someone did imply however that they had overlooked hamline, which only serves to discount any credit they earned by winning.

Remy, I doubt many plattsburgh fans could have found neumann on a map before last season, but that didn't exactly have anything to do with how the games went down. I'm not sure what anyone's geography skills have to do with the merits of a team's record or skill.

All webb said leading up to the game was that he had no idea what to expect, which is a rarity. I wouldn't have been surprised to see Hamline win one and lose one, but apart from someone being thrashed handily, nothing would have really surprised me results-wise considering I didn't know what to expect from Adrian.

I did not imply that they overlooked Hamline.

I just said that I'm sure the Oswego game had to be circled on the Adrian players calendars since the beginning of the season.

First big name school playing the Bulldogs and then even more as the season progressed now that Oswego is the #1 team in the nation.

 

[ColdInRomney]

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Re: "Jan. 8-9th: The Ultimate Hockey Weekend" Adrian @ Oswego, Plattsburgh @ Elmira

Without a doubt Adrian will be pumped up on Friday, but last weekend may cause them to have some additional self-doubt. And don't think for a minute that the Lakers don't fully appreciate the significance of this game.