Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

[4four4]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

1. When was this?
2. I assume, if this is true, that Notre Dame tried to get into the B1G for all sports EXCEPT football.

Shake Down the Thunder: Chapter 23 Anti-aircraft Fire from the Big Ten: 1926

https://books.google.com/books?id=l...A#v=onepage&q=notre dame big ten 1926&f=false


"In early 1926, the Notre Dame administration, with better control of it's athletic department, decided to apply for the admission to the Big Ten."

EDIT: This included football.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

No. The rules say if six exist, any one of them can propose a league. They vote on it and if it passes, all teams can join or they get the boot out of everything else. Including the CIC.

 

[Spartanforlife4]

I'm not 100% certain on this but to have the minimum 6 teams to have a sport be officially part of your conference such as when the B1G hockey conference was formed don't all 6 founding teams MUST be FULL FLEDGED members of the conference and not an associate member like Notre Dame currently is?
Which means if Penn State never formed their team and Notre Dame wanted to join for just hockey the B1G hockey conference couldn't have been formed under those circumstances?

Big Ten lacrosse only has six teams, including Hopkins. Theoretically the Big Ten could have a women's hockey conference with OSU, Minnesota, Wisconsin, PSU and two other schools if they wanted.

Now there is some rule about a certain number of schools having to have played together for a certain number of years in order to obtain an autobid, but I'm pretty sure that's usually waived for everything besides basketball.

 

[cetihcra]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

Now there is some rule about a certain number of schools having to have played together for a certain number of years in order to obtain an autobid, but I'm pretty sure that's usually waived for everything besides basketball.

The rule is that a new conference must have a certain number of teams (5, i think?) that have played together for a certain number of years (3 perhaps?) to get a waiver for the 2-year probation period before obtaining an autobid. The NCHC was able to obtain said waiver, since DU, UMD, SCSU, Omaha, and CC all played together in the WCHA. The B1G applied for and was granted a waiver despite not meeting those requirements, probably because they're the B1G.

r

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

The Big Ten rule is that if HALF the schools play the sport, they sponsor a championship. And because they knew that Maryland and Rutgers were coming in, they didn't have to form the Big Ten hockey league since there are now 6 full conference members that play of the 14 total (42.8%). They got sold a bill of goods by BTN that they would increase TV appearances by creating the league and cut out the smaller schools from any revenue sharing. One of those didn't happen, one did. And as a result, much of college hockey as we knew it got sold down the river.

B1G Hockey conference was publicly announced 20 months before Rutgers and Maryland held a vote on joining the B1G. And clearly B1G hockey was planned long before it was actually announced. They were already playing a conference hockey season when it first was reported Maryland and Rutgers were in negotiations with the B1G. You're suggesting the B1G knew those schools were joining something like 3 years before it was even voted on.

 

[joecct]

That’s kind of an academic question.

If Penn State hadn’t formed their team, Notre Dame (and Michigan, Michigan State, and Ohio State) would probably still be the big dogs in the CCHA, and Wisconsin and Minnesota would have great rivalries in the WCHA.

When Penn State formed their team, that made six B1G teams, which meant, so we were told that (as Wisko says) they had to play in a B1G hockey conference. That started the mass realignment, many teams getting fugged in the process.

Not aiming at you directly Honeybuckeye, but I find the B1G totally disrupting the college hockey landscape, then questioning whether Notre Dame is “deserving” to be kind of like the cliché about the kid who kills his parents then whines about being an orphan.

If they had left the existing WCHA & CCHA (sans the B1G) alone and put UAH in the CCHA, the landscape would be much better.

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

It seems to me Notre Dame would be a natural fit for all their sports in the B1G.
But besides wanting to maintain some autonomous control perhaps they're afraid their vaunted football program would not do well with the level of competition?

 

[D2D]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

It seems to me Notre Dame would be a natural fit for all their sports in the B1G.
But besides wanting to maintain some autonomous control perhaps they're afraid their vaunted football program would not do well with the level of competition?

I think it all comes down to money from football. I wonder how much more they get from their existing exclusive contract with NBC vs. what they would receive from BTN as just another Big Ten member. I suspect there's a substantial difference. How much I have no idea.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

In hockey they really are.

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

I think it all comes down to money from football. I wonder how much more they get from their existing exclusive contract with NBC vs. what they would receive from BTN as just another Big Ten member. I suspect there's a substantial difference. How much I have no idea.

That may well be. Since they are not a public funded school that info is not researchable to the best of my knowledge.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

It seems to me Notre Dame would be a natural fit for all their sports in the B1G.
But besides wanting to maintain some autonomous control perhaps they're afraid their vaunted football program would not do well with the level of competition?

Our "vaunted" football program has struggled with most competition for a generation now. The PARENTS of the guys who will be freshmen this fall probably didn't even know each other the last time Notre Dame could make a legitimate claim at being a championship caliber team. Like every single other school with revenue producing sports it is all about money and exposure. As soon as it is more financially beneficial to join the ACC for all sports, football independence will no longer seem so important to the powers that be at Notre Dame.

Whether or not Notre Dame belongs in the B1G or not or the fans embrace the moniker of being a B1G hockey team, I know I and most of our fans are quite happy to be competing again against the teams I have been watching them play against since the early 1970s (plus OSU of course, since the early 90s and a couple of years in the 80s). We are a lot like OSU in that a lot of our fans (and nearly all of our casual fans and a lot of alums) really follow Notre Dame FOOTBALL, and barely know that other sports are played by Notre Dame, even when they are highly successful.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

That may well be. Since they are not a public funded school that info is not researchable to the best of my knowledge.

You just have to know who to ask.

 

[Sean Pickett]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

Of course, if Penn State had joined the Big East as they originally wanted this whole discussion would likely be moot and instead we could be discussing how the formation of the Big East Hockey Conference tore apart Hockey East.

Sean

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

Notre Dame is said to get around $15 million/year for their 7 home football games from the NBC contract, which runs through 2025. They also have a deal with the ACC to play five ACC football teams/year through 2037. Next year the ACC network will launch, which will likely substantially increase dollars for all member schools and Notre Dame, who is also contractually obligated to join ACC football if they give up football independence any time in the next 20 years.

Notre Dame is locked into the ACC and really can't join the B1G, even if they wanted to at this point.

It would not be impossible that ND and BC would have to join an ACC hockey conference (maybe something like say... Syracuse, Florida State, Pitt, and Miami) sometime in the distant future if collegiate Hockey were to continue to grow.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

You’re still misunderstanding. A full-time Big Ten member, of which ND and JHU are not, must participate in the Big Ten conference for a sport, if the school participates in that sport, and a big ten conference exists for that sport.

I understand your point, and believe you're correct about the specific rule you're emphasizing. I just think it's secondary to this particular conversation, if not irrelevant. The issue at hand is whether to allow affiliate (part-time) members into the league, not whether to prevent full members from wandering out and competing elsewhere.

I did object to some of your wording. For schools that only sponsor Club Hockey, the suggestion that such sports "don't exist" on those campuses is needlessly disrespectful, IMHO. But that "disagreement" is mostly a matter of semantics. I understood what you meant.

If I'm misunderstanding anybody, it's HockeyBuckeye. Obviously we interpreted his opening remarks very differently. But getting into an endless debate about what the "Founding Father" of the thread intended isn't worth the time. If he wants to further clarify, he will.

Very quickly, my specific question for HockeyBuckeye is still this: If a full member school legitimately decides to opt out of sponsoring certain B1G Varsity sports, does that school start looking like a part time member? If yes, presumably HockeyBuckeye would have a problem with that. I'd still be interested in his response, if he cares to give one.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

All that matters is football and basketball. And even then, not really. The big ten is really just members of the CIC. Sports are entirely secondary.

As an aside, your comment about club sports was particularly eye roll worthy. It wasn’t needlessly disrespectful. The five people who might care about it aren’t in this conversation and none of that sub-D3 clap trap matters. Those sports matter about the same as much as the five-member A/V club.

Now that was needlessly disrespectful.

 

[UMD21]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

Just my paranoid opinion, but the big 10 wishes Notre Dame was a member. My crazy self believes that was a big part of the whole big 10 hockey conference formation. Money and success with hockey is meaningless to the conference but all worth it if they can use it to coaxe ND into the conference for the rest of the sports.

 

[BlackI]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

No they are not. Bring back to hockey east where they belong.

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

Notre Dame is the one that got away for the Big Ten.

They’re a quintessential big ten school. Miswesr, good academics, rife with cash, and name recognition. Notre Dame isn’t a research powerhouse like the rest of the big ten schools though.

The one that got away? B1G was open to ND, but they simply had too many demands. B1G doesn't grovel to anyone. They told ND no thanks. The whole hockey thing simple was good for both entities. The B1G needed another team and the BE didn't treat ND very well so they enjoyed leaving the BE. Now the BE sucks and they are wishing they hadn't treated ND so badly. lol

 

[UMICH]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

No they are not. Bring back to hockey east where they belong.

Sarcasm is ineffective on the internet, especially when you use the wrong emoji...

Check a map. But at the same time I could take or leave Notre Dame. Even though they are in the B1G TEN Hockey Conference I do not consider them a B1G TEN team. I guess it works for hockey only.