Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

[UMICH]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

Just my paranoid opinion, but the big 10 wishes Notre Dame was a member. My crazy self believes that was a big part of the whole big 10 hockey conference formation. Money and success with hockey is meaningless to the conference but all worth it if they can use it to coaxe ND into the conference for the rest of the sports.

That makes sense....to the rest of the conspiracy theorists. Notre Dame will never leave their independent status in football. They are too arrogant, and this is coming from a UM alum.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

I’ve been saying that for years. The cuba-like embargo on Notre Dame for all sports didn’t work. So we’re trying something new. Get them used to playing big ten teams. Get their fanbase used to some of the cities. Give them a taste of the richest conference in sports. Maybe they’ll join in other sports and eventually become a full member. And maybe they’ll even get access to the CIC.

 

[SteveO]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

CIC was renamed a couple years ago to BTAA (Big Ten Academic Alliance). Agree with your thinking here. It'll take time for ND may warm up to the idea. Undergrad is still competitive, but their grad program is a good fit for BTAA academic standards..

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

They should have kept it CIC. To really around out against sports and not imply this is an athletic conference. It’s an academic conference that plays sportsball together.

 

[SteveO]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

I think it's a positive change. The leadership thinking was CIC (Committee on Institutional Cooperation) did not accurately reflect the high academic standards and research intensive focus of the collective membership of the B1G, nor did it communicate its salient academic mission to those that matter: Government agencies, particularly federal ones that provide the majority of sponsored research funds.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

They should have kept it CIC. To really around out against sports and not imply this is an athletic conference. It’s an academic conference that plays sportsball together.

agreed- it's where the real money in the B1G really is, anyway. Research budgets are about 5x athletics, on average. Oh, well.

 

[SteveO]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

In academia, scholarship will always take precedence over athletics in the B1G. That's not open to discussion.

 

[giwan]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

In academia, scholarship will always take precedence over athletics in the B1G. That's not open to discussion.

Right, but you let ND in to play hockey. $$$ They have been criticized by big ten folk$ for a variety of academic reason$ yet the $lippery $lope ha$ $tarted.

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

You are 100% right SteveO. And it always cracks me up when some SEC fb fan or some BE cbb fan talks about conf realignment and thinks its all about the quality of athletics a prospective school offers. But maybe as a B1G fan I just can't think that way? And maybe other conferences bring in so much less in research dollars that athletic dollars really are one of their priorities? lol That would be pathetic if it were true, and makes me very pleased to be a fan of a long time B1G program.

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

Right, but you let ND in to play hockey. $$$ They have been criticized by big ten folk$ for a variety of academic reason$ yet the $lippery $lope ha$ $tarted.

What I've heard is both Notre Dame and Texas want too much from the B1G and the B1G is not in any way desperate. Well, they kind of were in regards to hockey, and why we brought in ND for just that one sport, but the B1G will never give in to ND's wants/demands, so IF ND ever does join the B1G, it will be according to the B1G's terms. The B1G might make some kind of a minor concession if they feel ND has done enough to warrant entrance in all other regards. Sort of, if there are 10 steps between them and the B1G, they need to take 9 towards the B1G in order for the B1G to consider taking 1 towards ND. There being 14 full members of the B1G, and ND would be benefitting from all those 14 programs do and contribute to the whole, so it would be fair, imo, to ask of ND to make 14 concessions/steps in exchange for the B1G making 1 towards ND.

And my guess is they also need a 16th member ready to come in at the same time as ND, and I don't see another program that meets all the needs the B1G would need them to make in order for us to want them. Only programs I can think they might consider, would be Texas if they become much more humble, which will never happen, or maybe Kansas, but I've heard Kansas will only come if Oklahoma is included in the package.

So I don't see ND becoming a B1G member anytime soon.

 

[4four4]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

Every school in the Big Ten Conference would rather be known for finding a cure for cancer than any sports championship. Even Ohio State people would agree with me.

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

All that matters is football and basketball. And even then, not really. The big ten is really just members of the CIC. Sports are entirely secondary.

As an aside, your comment about club sports was particularly eye roll worthy. It wasn’t needlessly disrespectful. The five people who might care about it aren’t in this conversation and none of that sub-D3 clap trap matters. Those sports matter about the same as much as the five-member A/V club.

Now that was needlessly disrespectful.

For right now all that matters is probably football and basketball, but hockey used to be a legit Revenue sport here at Minnesota. And with the NHL expanding and becoming more and more popular every year, there could come a day when college hockey enters the discussion at least, and hopefully especially here at Minnesota. The NHLPA is working on helping out College hockey by helping to fund at least one more college hockey program, if not more down the line. Illinois was the first school they considered or are going to consider. So if the NHL makes an investment into college hockey, and if the B1G continues to do well like they did this year, college hockey's relevance could rise.


I think your view of club sports, IN GENERAL, may be fairly accurate, but not when it comes to hockey. Club Hockey teams are sometimes the 3rd most popular sports team on college campuses out there. That is what I heard about Arizona and Arizona St's club teams, about 10 years ago, and now look where ASU is?

No other club sport out there comes even close to comparing to Club Hockey, and that is mainly because most club sports teams are in sports almost no one cares about, OR the school has a Div 1,2 or 3 team so the Club team members are obviously not the best players of that sport on their own campus so of course they get seen as 2nd, maybe 3rd class citizens in regards to sports. That is usually not true when it comes to hockey, except for schools like Minnesota that has both a Div 1 team and a club team. UMn's Club team won a Natl Title a few years back, and probably 1 other person in this whole site knows about it. But at a school like Illinois or Arizona, fans of those schools care about how well their Club hockey team does.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

For right now all that matters is probably football and basketball, but hockey used to be a legit Revenue sport here at Minnesota. And with the NHL expanding and becoming more and more popular every year, there could come a day when college hockey enters the discussion at least, and hopefully especially here at Minnesota. The NHLPA is working on helping out College hockey by helping to fund at least one more college hockey program, if not more down the line. Illinois was the first school they considered or are going to consider. So if the NHL makes an investment into college hockey, and if the B1G continues to do well like they did this year, college hockey's relevance could rise.


I think your view of club sports, IN GENERAL, may be fairly accurate, but not when it comes to hockey. Club Hockey teams are sometimes the 3rd most popular sports team on college campuses out there. That is what I heard about Arizona and Arizona St's club teams, about 10 years ago, and now look where ASU is?

No other club sport out there comes even close to comparing to Club Hockey, and that is mainly because most club sports teams are in sports almost no one cares about, OR the school has a Div 1,2 or 3 team so the Club team members are obviously not the best players of that sport on their own campus so of course they get seen as 2nd, maybe 3rd class citizens in regards to sports. That is usually not true when it comes to hockey, except for schools like Minnesota that has both a Div 1 team and a club team. UMn's Club team won a Natl Title a few years back, and probably 1 other person in this whole site knows about it. But at a school like Illinois or Arizona, fans of those schools care about how well their Club hockey team does.

Hockey has never brought in the revenue that football or basketball does, even at Minnesota. Yes, Minnesota is one of the few schools that typically makes money with hockey (much less the last few years), but that amount pales in comparison to football and basketball revenue.

And I will add that hockey will always be a regional sport for the most part. Yes, more kids are playing in non traditional markets, but you will see diminishing returns on further investment in those markets. Hockey is expensive and there are only so many kids who can afford it. Minnesota's community-based youth hockey model is one of the reasons hockey has grown so much here. Hard to replicate that elsewhere.

 

[elbojpb]

The $$$ thread

The $$$ thread

Notre Dame is said to get around $15 million/year for their 7 home football games from the NBC contract, which runs through 2025. They also have a deal with the ACC to play five ACC football teams/year through 2037. Next year the ACC network will launch, which will likely substantially increase dollars for all member schools and Notre Dame, who is also contractually obligated to join ACC football if they give up football independence any time in the next 20 years ... Notre Dame is locked into the ACC and really can't join the B1G, even if they wanted to at this point.

ND continues giving scholarships to football players who don't meet "typical" ND admission standards → ND remains competitive on the gridiron → The NBC/ND viewing audience remains strong → Advertisers continue paying surplus rates → NBC continues paying ND ridiculous football money → ND will never commit all its programs to any conference

 

[gopher wes]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

And my guess is they also need a 16th member ready to come in at the same time as ND, and I don't see another program that meets all the needs the B1G would need them to make in order for us to want them. Only programs I can think they might consider, would be Texas if they become much more humble, which will never happen, or maybe Kansas, but I've heard Kansas will only come if Oklahoma is included in the package.

Without doing any research as to whether Iowa St fits in the B1G academically, I've always wondered why they aren't in the B1G geographically. Built in rivalry with Iowa, old rivalry from Nebraska's time in the Big 12, and a new border battle team in Minnesota.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

agreed- it's where the real money in the B1G really is, anyway. Research budgets are about 5x athletics, on average. Oh, well.

LOL- some one negatively rep'ed me for this post.

I honestly didn't know this fact until I started looking into school budgets. It's very true for all of the schools I looked into at the time- research trumps athletics all over the country, including schools that are not actually top research universities.

It's more true for Michigan, who has a $100M athletic budget, and $1B research budget. Mind you, there are only a handful of schools out there who have bigger athletic budgets than Michigan.

I don't understand how people think there's that much money in entertainment (sports) relative to research. Think about football, even- they play at home what 8 times a year, and up to 13 games on TV? Compare that with the research facilities going on all year round?

Money is in the academics and research. Pride is sports.

 

[GB Puck Fan]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

Without doing any research as to whether Iowa St fits in the B1G academically, I've always wondered why they aren't in the B1G geographically. Built in rivalry with Iowa, old rivalry from Nebraska's time in the Big 12, and a new border battle team in Minnesota.

They don't bring new TV markets/revenue to the table? (Which helps explain Rutgers and Maryland...)

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

Without doing any research as to whether Iowa St fits in the B1G academically, I've always wondered why they aren't in the B1G geographically. Built in rivalry with Iowa, old rivalry from Nebraska's time in the Big 12, and a new border battle team in Minnesota.

Iowa State does, from what I remember, meet the basic qualifications. Which is being on this list:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities

I’m not sure it meets he preferred qualifications.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

LOL- some one negatively rep'ed me for this post.

I honestly didn't know this fact until I started looking into school budgets. It's very true for all of the schools I looked into at the time- research trumps athletics all over the country, including schools that are not actually top research universities.

It's more true for Michigan, who has a $100M athletic budget, and $1B research budget. Mind you, there are only a handful of schools out there who have bigger athletic budgets than Michigan.

I don't understand how people think there's that much money in entertainment (sports) relative to research. Think about football, even- they play at home what 8 times a year, and up to 13 games on TV? Compare that with the research facilities going on all year round?

Money is in the academics and research. Pride is sports.

Yeah, sports is just a cute sideshow. The public-facing front of a school, more or less. The real stuff happens in the labs.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

Without doing any research as to whether Iowa St fits in the B1G academically, I've always wondered why they aren't in the B1G geographically. Built in rivalry with Iowa, old rivalry from Nebraska's time in the Big 12, and a new border battle team in Minnesota.

Iowa state isn't close. Its rated #115 in academics, that's at or near the bottom of the B1G. Its a second school in a small state - little new fanbase. Its in a modestly declining area of the country. It doesn't have a great football program - see Nebraska or even Rutgers.

Each spot in the B1G is precious and once offered will probably never be rescinded. So the decisions to add Penn St, Marlyand, Rutgers and Nebraska - were extremely well thought through from academic, athletic and national footprint points of view.