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Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

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Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

XYZ said:
Note: The point where you crossed over from pure comedy to just plain retarded. Though, I guess this concept makes the victory by that band of midgets at the Alamo all the more impressive.
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UNOfan said that this kid could be a 14 yo linebacker next to a relatively small border guard.

My position is that its unlikely as the statistical average of a Mexican is 5'4" and the average American is 5'9" based on studies conducted by the respective govts. I have no idea why I even bother trying to bring someone into the conversation who makes a purely negative comment.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Terrierbyassociation said:
Stereotyping people to a ridiculous degree is racist. He must have been small because he was Latino.:rolleyes:

I must like spicy food because I'm Indian. I must also bob my head while talking, right? :rolleyes:
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OK...I"ll repeat.

The statistical average of a Mexican (living in Mexico) is 5'4" and the average American is over 5'9" (living in the US) based on studies conducted by the respective govts.

...and I don't think you like spicy food because your Indian. But I do think you've got a heck of a chip on your shoulder from something.

I stand by my position. The border guard deserves tough judgement as shooting a child in the head is typically unacceptable especially when the US legal system is based on innocence until proven guilty.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

5mn_Major said:
My position is that its unlikely as the statistical average of a Mexican is 5'4" and the average American is 5'9" based on studies conducted by the respective govts.
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And the Dutch are the tallest people in the world (I think). God forbid they start slinging stones? Your point?


I have no idea why I even bother trying to bring someone into the conversation who makes a purely negative comment.
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You were having a conversation? Could have fooled me.

If you want a real point, fine. Shooting a child in the head is obviously unacceptable by the standards of any reasonable human being. Now...what constitutes a child? Our own arbitrary 18yo cutoff age? The age required to carry automatic weaponry and fight wars in many parts of the world? Beats me, but I'd contend the age of your "child" is largely irrelevant in many situations that involve violent and criminal behavior. The fact you have consistently fallen back on the "child" bit is telling as you, as usual, would rather focus on something arbitrary as opposed to dealing with the (still fuzzy) facts at hand.

The United States holds its law enforcement accountable perhaps moreso than any nation out there. Ever heard of Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean? Those are guys with very solid credentials who ended up in prison, and they were sentences that were certainly not collectively popular among the American populace.

As such, if the agent in this most recent situation acted out of order, I have full faith he will be held accountable, and I'm fine with that. What's comical, however, is your immediate supposition that our agent was horribly out of line all because it was a "child", the definition of which, as stated, is horribly obtuse is some situations. Not that any of that matters to you when there is blame to be hurled about.

Now, you may proceed with your no doubt expert racially genetic based diatrabe as to the effects of skin pigmentation and bone structure on rock throwing skills. The fact that is what you have devolved to is telling enough. Have fun.
 
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Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

XYZ said:
As such, if the agent in this most recent situation acted out of order, I have full faith he will be held accountable, and I'm fine with that. .
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Was the kid who was shot the only one throwing stones or were there others? If there were others, how many? 2, 7, 52 and how many stone throwers would it take before the guard was justified in defending himself. Maybe one of the stone throwers was over 6 feet tall:p

I learned something anyway, a 5'4" rocker thrower can't hurt a 5'9" border guard, their is no way a rock could hit the taller person in the temple and knock him out, take that to the bank
 
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Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

5mn_Major said:
UNOfan said that this kid could be a 14 yo linebacker next to a relatively small border guard.

My position is that its unlikely as the statistical average of a Mexican is 5'4" and the average American is 5'9" based on studies conducted by the respective govts. I have no idea why I even bother trying to bring someone into the conversation who makes a purely negative comment.
Click to expand...

So it's ok to throw rocks at people that are taller than you? As someone over 6 feet tall, I have a serious concern with this attitude! :p
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

XYZ said:
And the Dutch are the tallest people in the world (I think). God forbid they start slinging stones? Your point?
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It wasn't even my point...I was only saying I didn't think it was valid. Go harrass the guy who advanced it.


XYZ said:
If you want a real point, fine. Shooting a child in the head is obviously unacceptable by the standards of any reasonable human being. Now...what constitutes a child? Our own arbitrary 18yo cutoff age? The age required to carry automatic weaponry and fight wars in many parts of the world? Beats me, but I'd contend the age of your "child" is largely irrelevant in many situations that involve violent and criminal behavior. The fact you have consistently fallen back on the "child" bit is telling as you, as usual, would rather focus on something arbitrary as opposed to dealing with the (still fuzzy) facts at hand.

The United States holds its law enforcement accountable perhaps moreso than any nation out there. Ever heard of Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean? Those are guys with very solid credentials who ended up in prison, and they were sentences that were certainly not collectively popular among the American populace.
Click to expand...

14 years old is young. The US legal system thinks so also as its penalties are significantly different than it would be for an adult. We either live by our standards or we don't.

Regardless, I still don't see your point. Unless we see more information, the guy with the gun is primarily to blame for the death (if its an act that should not have occurred)...and deserves judgement.
 
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Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

5mn_Major said:
Regardless, I still don't see your point. Unless we see more information, the guy with the gun is primarily to blame for the death (if its an act that should not have occurred)...and deserves judgement.
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what happened to innocent until proven guilty? you applied that standard to one side (the person throwing rocks), but not to the other side (the person with the gun)?
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

The question is - did the officer have a reasonable belief that he or those around him were at risk of serious physical injury or death? If so, then his use of deadly force is reasonable under the Fourth Amendment.

Whether it was a 9, 14, 29 or 91 year old throwing rocks is not a determinative factor, and is only relevant in determining whether his belief that he was in serious danger was reasonable.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

MavKato said:
what happened to innocent until proven guilty? you applied that standard to one side (the person throwing rocks), but not to the other side (the person with the gun)?
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The point I've been making is that the border guard will be and needs to be adequately judged by US courts as is standard in the US. The kid did not get that same 'innocence until proven guilty' judgement...that's the problem.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Rimbaud said:
Yeah, a 14yo would never be tried as an adult. And kids younger than that don't get sentenced to life in prison.
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Extreme exceptions that don't apply here...as we have no evidence the kid killed in this case had this kind of background. Frankly the evidence doesn't matter either as he didn't get a trial.

Point remains...US law and society largely treats those of the age of the kid in this case very differently than adults.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

5mn_Major said:
14 years old is young. The US legal system thinks so also as its penalties are significantly different than it would be for an adult. We either live by our standards or we don't.
Click to expand...

True, but that's a different point and not relevant to the way a law enforcement official might act in the moment if he felt his life was in danger.

Regardless, I still don't see your point. Unless we see more information, the guy with the gun is primarily to blame for the death (if its an act that should not have occurred)...and deserves judgement.
Click to expand...

No. Until we see the full information we don't know who is to blame for the death. The age of the "child" is irrelevant to that point. That's what you're missing with your predictable blamefest.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

5mn_Major said:
The kid did not get that same 'innocence until proven guilty' judgement...that's the problem.
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So an officer under fire cannot respond until his attacker has been found guilty by a jury?
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

My favorite comment on that link.

Don't bring rocks to a gun fight.

Alleged criminal and human trafficker died 6 meters inside the Mexican border, apparently.

Looks like he wasn't throwing rocks for fun or just to protest something but in the furtherance of a crime, to distract the border patrol agent from doing his job.

Mexico wants swift action. They got it, they got one of their criminals punished free of charge. :eek:
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Terrierbyassociation said:
My favorite comment on that link.

Don't bring rocks to a gun fight.

Alleged criminal and human trafficker died 6 meters inside the Mexican border, apparently.

Looks like he wasn't throwing rocks for fun or just to protest something but in the furtherance of a crime, to distract the border patrol agent from doing his job.

Mexico wants swift action. They got it, they got one of their criminals punished free of charge. :eek:
Click to expand...

The department of homeland security should send them a bill and grab a bag of popcorn to enjoy the show. :D
 
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