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Hockey East 2010-2011
- Thread starter BCeagle
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TonyTheTiger20
#SOAR
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
I don't know, the Tanner house was kind of nice. Maybe he has a point.
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
He'll always be the major the phil if ya know what I'm sayin'
He'll always be the major the phil if ya know what I'm sayin'
jcarter7669
Registered User
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
de Costa won't be in the running for best player next season... although he has a better chance then Tanner House, not saying the kid can't play but jeez he isn't close to Atkinson or Nyquist (except physically on the ice). And while Kessel will likely be one of the top defensemen...
Nyquist and Atkinson will be the top two players this season, de Costa is a top 5...
de Costa won't be in the running for best player next season... although he has a better chance then Tanner House, not saying the kid can't play but jeez he isn't close to Atkinson or Nyquist (except physically on the ice). And while Kessel will likely be one of the top defensemen...
Nyquist and Atkinson will be the top two players this season, de Costa is a top 5...
umassfan49
New member
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
If your talking about who the best players in the country will be this year think outside of the division for a bit. North Dakota has several players who could be mentioned (Genoway, Kristo, Frattin). Minnesota-Duluth returns both Jack Connolly and Justin Fontaine, and SCSU still has Roe who has been a force since his freshman year.
There are also some players in the CCHA who you could talk about including Pat Cannone, Carl Hagelin, etc. A player's past success also does not guarantee a brighter future. Atkinson obviously had a tremendous year scoring 30 goals, but this season is a new one. There is no reason to expect he shouldn't put up similar numbers but to state he will be the top player for certain in the league may be quick judgment at this point.
If your talking about who the best players in the country will be this year think outside of the division for a bit. North Dakota has several players who could be mentioned (Genoway, Kristo, Frattin). Minnesota-Duluth returns both Jack Connolly and Justin Fontaine, and SCSU still has Roe who has been a force since his freshman year.
There are also some players in the CCHA who you could talk about including Pat Cannone, Carl Hagelin, etc. A player's past success also does not guarantee a brighter future. Atkinson obviously had a tremendous year scoring 30 goals, but this season is a new one. There is no reason to expect he shouldn't put up similar numbers but to state he will be the top player for certain in the league may be quick judgment at this point.
Federal League
I like hockey.
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
None of those players you mentioned besides Genoway are legit Hobey Baker candidates like Nyquist, Atkinson and arguably even Da Costa. BTW, for all of you who seem to be under the impression Atkinson is better than Nyquist and that Da Costa isn't on the same level as those two, here are points per game for those three last year:
Nyquist- 1.56 (best in the country)
Da Costa- 1.32 (tied for 7th in the country)
Atkinson- 1.26 (12th in the country)
None of those players you mentioned besides Genoway are legit Hobey Baker candidates like Nyquist, Atkinson and arguably even Da Costa. BTW, for all of you who seem to be under the impression Atkinson is better than Nyquist and that Da Costa isn't on the same level as those two, here are points per game for those three last year:
Nyquist- 1.56 (best in the country)
Da Costa- 1.32 (tied for 7th in the country)
Atkinson- 1.26 (12th in the country)
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Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
House being used in the same discussion as Atkinson and Nyquist? Drugs are bad. Mmkay?
House being used in the same discussion as Atkinson and Nyquist? Drugs are bad. Mmkay?
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jcarter7669
Registered User
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
Genoway will depend on how he recovers, he may not be a legit contender either.
When comparing Da Costa to the others I think one has to consider that he came in as a freshman, didn't even crack the line up at first and flew under the radar of most teams through a good portion of the schedule. Consider, through the first 17 games he had 25 points or 1.47 ppg, through the last 16 games he had 20 pts for 1.25 ppg. Not a tremendous drop off, but clearly he dropped off when teams actually started paying attention. Moreover he had 12 pts in the last 10 games for 1.2 ppg and that was in part driven a great deal by a 4 pt effort against ME. He collected 3 pts in the final 6 games or 0.5ppg. He is a dynamic player no doubt, but I think his stats were helped from being an overlooked player on an overlooked team.
Conversely, Atkinson was a known. Teams prepped for him and he also got better over the course of the year instead of tailing off. Atkinson had 14 pts in his last 10 games for 1.4ppg compared to the 1.2 of Da Costa. And of note also is these points were against the best teams in the country.
I'm not trying to denigrate Da Costa at all, he will be a top forward in the country, but teams aren't going to over look him or MC this year like they did last year and if we look at how he did when teams were focused (i.e. the end of the season) his numbers are not nearly impressive.
Genoway will depend on how he recovers, he may not be a legit contender either.
When comparing Da Costa to the others I think one has to consider that he came in as a freshman, didn't even crack the line up at first and flew under the radar of most teams through a good portion of the schedule. Consider, through the first 17 games he had 25 points or 1.47 ppg, through the last 16 games he had 20 pts for 1.25 ppg. Not a tremendous drop off, but clearly he dropped off when teams actually started paying attention. Moreover he had 12 pts in the last 10 games for 1.2 ppg and that was in part driven a great deal by a 4 pt effort against ME. He collected 3 pts in the final 6 games or 0.5ppg. He is a dynamic player no doubt, but I think his stats were helped from being an overlooked player on an overlooked team.
Conversely, Atkinson was a known. Teams prepped for him and he also got better over the course of the year instead of tailing off. Atkinson had 14 pts in his last 10 games for 1.4ppg compared to the 1.2 of Da Costa. And of note also is these points were against the best teams in the country.
I'm not trying to denigrate Da Costa at all, he will be a top forward in the country, but teams aren't going to over look him or MC this year like they did last year and if we look at how he did when teams were focused (i.e. the end of the season) his numbers are not nearly impressive.
Nick Papagiorgio
Holding court
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
I certainly think Roe and Genoway are legit contenders and Hagelin is as well. I don't think for one second the UMD guys will be but someone will need to fill in the top 10. Kristo maybe... Frattin is a nice player but probably not a Hobey candidate (same for Cannone IMO). After that I have to turn to Hockey East. Atkinson and Nyquist are probably neck and neck. Da Costa is in the discussion as well. Heck, I'd even consider a guy like Kreider (15-20 extra lbs and a lot of momentum and experience gained) and to a lesser extent Hayes to be a potential dark horse to start off the year. Toss in the fact that the drooling morons that do this stuff think defensemen that score points are sexy, regardless of whether they are any good at defense, and you've got to throw in potential names like Warsofsky ("Warso" for you fansies) and another potential dark horse, Tommy Cross. I don't know what to expect from Dumoulin point-wise to say he is in the mix in that group yet but he could be. Disclaimer, none of those guys have defensive problems... just saying in general how stupid the voters are.
The thing about Atkinson vs. Nyquist vs. Da Costa. Atkinson really exploded in the 2nd half. Before the new year he had zero games with 3+ pts. After the new year he had SIX. Where is his ceiling and can he keep getting better? He's probably close to his ceiling now at least in the NCAA but that's a wild card in this discussion.
Nyquist is probably close to his ceiling too. His stats just by eyeballing look like he got slightly better towards the end but not as explosive as Atkinson. Nyquist is at a nice advantage in clearly being the best guy on his team. Atkinson has a lot of guys to blend in with (and potentially split votes). Gibbons is nasty albeit sadly not as recognized as he should be. Kreider and Hayes could have big years. Whitney is an interesting figure as well. Maine has Flynn... maybe Diamond but let's be honest Nyquist is better than those guys without a doubt.
Da Costa is only a sophomore so his ceiling is tough to get a read on, it could be a lot higher having only adjusted for 1 year but then again he is turning 21 in early Nov. His production was fairly even just by looking at the stats quickly, and of course that big fat 5 next to Army might be an asterisk and skew the numbers a bit? Knowing that he is far far behind the other two guys, he's really not a legit Hobey candidate unless both of the guys above him get a long-term injury. I do think this guy is more likely to get "whacked" with the shadow/defensive lines and is more susceptible to it because of who he has on his team. Teams will simply try to stop him and force the rest of the players (Barton, Brodhag and co) to get it done. That will slow down his production more than the other two, where the forwards are pretty deep on both teams. Add in the fact that he plays for Merrimack, and whether you think it's right or wrong to be on a sexy team with a good record, this guy's not really a threat to win the Hobey unless he puts up 65 to 70 pts and a lot of other guys have bad years.
I certainly think Roe and Genoway are legit contenders and Hagelin is as well. I don't think for one second the UMD guys will be but someone will need to fill in the top 10. Kristo maybe... Frattin is a nice player but probably not a Hobey candidate (same for Cannone IMO). After that I have to turn to Hockey East. Atkinson and Nyquist are probably neck and neck. Da Costa is in the discussion as well. Heck, I'd even consider a guy like Kreider (15-20 extra lbs and a lot of momentum and experience gained) and to a lesser extent Hayes to be a potential dark horse to start off the year. Toss in the fact that the drooling morons that do this stuff think defensemen that score points are sexy, regardless of whether they are any good at defense, and you've got to throw in potential names like Warsofsky ("Warso" for you fansies) and another potential dark horse, Tommy Cross. I don't know what to expect from Dumoulin point-wise to say he is in the mix in that group yet but he could be. Disclaimer, none of those guys have defensive problems... just saying in general how stupid the voters are.
The thing about Atkinson vs. Nyquist vs. Da Costa. Atkinson really exploded in the 2nd half. Before the new year he had zero games with 3+ pts. After the new year he had SIX. Where is his ceiling and can he keep getting better? He's probably close to his ceiling now at least in the NCAA but that's a wild card in this discussion.
Nyquist is probably close to his ceiling too. His stats just by eyeballing look like he got slightly better towards the end but not as explosive as Atkinson. Nyquist is at a nice advantage in clearly being the best guy on his team. Atkinson has a lot of guys to blend in with (and potentially split votes). Gibbons is nasty albeit sadly not as recognized as he should be. Kreider and Hayes could have big years. Whitney is an interesting figure as well. Maine has Flynn... maybe Diamond but let's be honest Nyquist is better than those guys without a doubt.
Da Costa is only a sophomore so his ceiling is tough to get a read on, it could be a lot higher having only adjusted for 1 year but then again he is turning 21 in early Nov. His production was fairly even just by looking at the stats quickly, and of course that big fat 5 next to Army might be an asterisk and skew the numbers a bit? Knowing that he is far far behind the other two guys, he's really not a legit Hobey candidate unless both of the guys above him get a long-term injury. I do think this guy is more likely to get "whacked" with the shadow/defensive lines and is more susceptible to it because of who he has on his team. Teams will simply try to stop him and force the rest of the players (Barton, Brodhag and co) to get it done. That will slow down his production more than the other two, where the forwards are pretty deep on both teams. Add in the fact that he plays for Merrimack, and whether you think it's right or wrong to be on a sexy team with a good record, this guy's not really a threat to win the Hobey unless he puts up 65 to 70 pts and a lot of other guys have bad years.
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Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
What do you consider at first? He didn't dress in the opening weekend series at North Dakota. That's not a big deal at all. Look at his nine game Hockey East stretch during the first semester from October 30-December 12:
4-9-13
Trust me, people, especially HE coaches, took notice early.
As you said, not a tremendous drop off. Even if teams only started to pay attention to him down the stretch, he still put up good numbers despite not having the surrounding talent like an Atkinson or Nyquist. Merrimack was hardly an overlooked team last year.
At what point did Atkinson become a known? He only had seven goals as a Freshman.
Put it on the table...you don't think Da Costa will have the numbers he did as a freshman?
What do you consider at first? He didn't dress in the opening weekend series at North Dakota. That's not a big deal at all. Look at his nine game Hockey East stretch during the first semester from October 30-December 12:
4-9-13
Trust me, people, especially HE coaches, took notice early.
As you said, not a tremendous drop off. Even if teams only started to pay attention to him down the stretch, he still put up good numbers despite not having the surrounding talent like an Atkinson or Nyquist. Merrimack was hardly an overlooked team last year.
At what point did Atkinson become a known? He only had seven goals as a Freshman.
Put it on the table...you don't think Da Costa will have the numbers he did as a freshman?
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
Ummm this is the HE thread, we are talking about the best players in HE who could also be the best players in the country. Not just talking about the best players in the country in general.
Ummm this is the HE thread, we are talking about the best players in HE who could also be the best players in the country. Not just talking about the best players in the country in general.
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
not dressing was clearinghouse issues, zero to do with play
kreider was sick and lost a good chunk of what he gained in early summer, word of putting on 20 is not accurate. had a thing called, I think, CMV, mono without the swelling of the spleen. knocked him out for 4 or 5 weeks
he will have a good year, a very good year
decosta killed ducks camp and will be a player
who was it at beg of year who said he would be a top player, before he played a game??
not dressing was clearinghouse issues, zero to do with play
kreider was sick and lost a good chunk of what he gained in early summer, word of putting on 20 is not accurate. had a thing called, I think, CMV, mono without the swelling of the spleen. knocked him out for 4 or 5 weeks
he will have a good year, a very good year
decosta killed ducks camp and will be a player
who was it at beg of year who said he would be a top player, before he played a game??
SteveF
* * * * *
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
Where teams like BC or Maine could roll lines more easily, Da Costa stayed on the ice in clutch situations last year. When the team was down by a goal or a lead was cut down to a goal Da Costa was always in there. Initially, he was just getting his feet wet as far as ice time goes (like with all rookies), but towards the end of the season practically every two shifts Da Costa would be out there. It is unclear if that trend will continue this season, but I am thinking he may not need to be on the ice as much.
One other item to note here: I am not sure where TOI is tracked for Hockey East games but I am confident Da Costa would be in the top ten in the league from last season.
Where teams like BC or Maine could roll lines more easily, Da Costa stayed on the ice in clutch situations last year. When the team was down by a goal or a lead was cut down to a goal Da Costa was always in there. Initially, he was just getting his feet wet as far as ice time goes (like with all rookies), but towards the end of the season practically every two shifts Da Costa would be out there. It is unclear if that trend will continue this season, but I am thinking he may not need to be on the ice as much.
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
Those of us who closely follow BC remember Cam's statement when he was recruited to BC. In essence he said that he was to be the next Gerbe.
Those of us who closely follow BC remember Cam's statement when he was recruited to BC. In essence he said that he was to be the next Gerbe.
Carmine Scarpaglia
My bad.
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
Ummmmm...
No, things definitely veered off into an argument about who was the best in the country for a while.
The Mainuhs pass it off as fact that Nyquist is ZOMG the best evah in the country. It's up for debate and that's where we got into who is the best in the country that could challenge their perceived veracity of such a proclamation, including some CCHA and WCHA guys.
Ummmmm...
No, things definitely veered off into an argument about who was the best in the country for a while.
The Mainuhs pass it off as fact that Nyquist is ZOMG the best evah in the country. It's up for debate and that's where we got into who is the best in the country that could challenge their perceived veracity of such a proclamation, including some CCHA and WCHA guys.
Re: Hockey East 2010-2011
Quite frankly, I don't think there is anyone who has seen enough of these guys in contention for best in the nation live to really settle an argument. Yes there are stats and highlights, but I really believe you have to see these guys live. Homers are going to pick their players, it's human nature, fact is if you have an atkinson or a nyquist or whoever is in "the conversation" your team is very well off and the envy of many teams in your league (trust me). It's like arguing the best QBs of alltime, I love the pats so who do you think I think is the best all time? Also, guess who I think isn't even in the conversation
.
It's all about being in the conversation, nobody has enough say in it to put anyone of those guys on the top pedestal with complete affirmation.
Quite frankly, I don't think there is anyone who has seen enough of these guys in contention for best in the nation live to really settle an argument. Yes there are stats and highlights, but I really believe you have to see these guys live. Homers are going to pick their players, it's human nature, fact is if you have an atkinson or a nyquist or whoever is in "the conversation" your team is very well off and the envy of many teams in your league (trust me). It's like arguing the best QBs of alltime, I love the pats so who do you think I think is the best all time? Also, guess who I think isn't even in the conversation
. It's all about being in the conversation, nobody has enough say in it to put anyone of those guys on the top pedestal with complete affirmation.
umassfan49
New member
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