unhpuckfan2001
Local Fire Extinguisher
Re: Hobey hat trick
I believe it's JUST the Ivy League schools that don't offer scholarships.
I believe it's JUST the Ivy League schools that don't offer scholarships.
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Hobey hat trick
- Thread starter hockeyenthusiast
- Start date
Nick Papagiorgio
Holding court
Re: Hobey hat trick
ECAC teams have been competitive historically? When, 20 years ago?
Over the last 10 years ECAC teams...
- Have a 29.6 win % in the NCAAs
- Have placed an average of 1.9 bids per NCAA tourney.
- Have placed 2 teams in the Frozen Four out of 40 possible slots (an 11% success rate for their 19 bids and 5% of the total slots)
- Have not had a team in the national title game.
I don't know where you come from, but where I come from we consider that to be disgustingly terrible.
ECAC teams have been competitive historically? When, 20 years ago?
Over the last 10 years ECAC teams...
- Have a 29.6 win % in the NCAAs
- Have placed an average of 1.9 bids per NCAA tourney.
- Have placed 2 teams in the Frozen Four out of 40 possible slots (an 11% success rate for their 19 bids and 5% of the total slots)
- Have not had a team in the national title game.
I don't know where you come from, but where I come from we consider that to be disgustingly terrible.
Re: Hobey hat trick
IIRC, the Ive League no-scholarship rules are part of why they're all ECAC, and not spread around. I wouldn't be surprised to find each sport has one league dedicated to Ive League schools. The lack of scholarships has _probably_ had some kind of effect on the kind of performance other leagues have come to expect out of the ECAC.
Still doesn't mean I like facing Cornell tomorrow.
IIRC, the Ive League no-scholarship rules are part of why they're all ECAC, and not spread around. I wouldn't be surprised to find each sport has one league dedicated to Ive League schools. The lack of scholarships has _probably_ had some kind of effect on the kind of performance other leagues have come to expect out of the ECAC.
Still doesn't mean I like facing Cornell tomorrow.
Re: Hobey hat trick
Nick:
Disgust arises from many sources. Sorry I rattled your cage. I readily admit that obtaining an education is not the only reason for attending a college or university. I'll concede ECAC hockey schools mirror neither the financial arrangements, academic policies, or athletic results of many schools in other leagues. And you are right. Teams with more "liberal" financial and academic policies for their hocky recruits are not surprisingly winning more games. However, given these wide variations between schools in financial rewards and academic expectations I maintain that ECAC teams have done rather well.
I still worry that colleges/universities will become one-year pro farm teams offering full scholarships and demanding little or no academic achievement.
I repeat, is this where NCAA division I hockey is headed, down the same road as Division I football and basketball? Is that a healthy goal for higher education or for amateur hockey?
Nick:
Disgust arises from many sources. Sorry I rattled your cage. I readily admit that obtaining an education is not the only reason for attending a college or university. I'll concede ECAC hockey schools mirror neither the financial arrangements, academic policies, or athletic results of many schools in other leagues. And you are right. Teams with more "liberal" financial and academic policies for their hocky recruits are not surprisingly winning more games. However, given these wide variations between schools in financial rewards and academic expectations I maintain that ECAC teams have done rather well.
I still worry that colleges/universities will become one-year pro farm teams offering full scholarships and demanding little or no academic achievement.
I repeat, is this where NCAA division I hockey is headed, down the same road as Division I football and basketball? Is that a healthy goal for higher education or for amateur hockey?
Re: Hobey hat trick
I don't see this happening. Hockey seems to have a longer development process, with the exception of a few superstars, it seems the NHL likes to see 2 to 3 years at the college level. The Juniors are a different story. I don't think you'll ever see college hockey go the route of BB or FB.
I don't see this happening. Hockey seems to have a longer development process, with the exception of a few superstars, it seems the NHL likes to see 2 to 3 years at the college level. The Juniors are a different story. I don't think you'll ever see college hockey go the route of BB or FB.
Nick Papagiorgio
Holding court
Kenny L Parker
Veteran
Re: Hobey hat trick
Don't worry, Osorojo. While Nick's argument is legitimate, his tone tells me that he's still bitter about the last time BC faced Cornell in March.
Don't worry, Osorojo. While Nick's argument is legitimate, his tone tells me that he's still bitter about the last time BC faced Cornell in March.
Re: Hobey hat trick
Help me understand, Nick. Are you saying that "Hahahhaa" constitutes an argument for Nick? What does it mean, or is this a B.C. thing?
I believe during the 50 years I have watched and followed college hockey that colleges are enrolling more and more players who would previously have played in the Juniors, and I know that professional hockey players' salaries have increased exponentially. Considering these two developments, I think it's naive to assume college hockey won't suffer most of the same problems as other college sports which have become gateways to ever more lucrative professional sports careers.
Help me understand, Nick. Are you saying that "Hahahhaa" constitutes an argument for Nick? What does it mean, or is this a B.C. thing?
I believe during the 50 years I have watched and followed college hockey that colleges are enrolling more and more players who would previously have played in the Juniors, and I know that professional hockey players' salaries have increased exponentially. Considering these two developments, I think it's naive to assume college hockey won't suffer most of the same problems as other college sports which have become gateways to ever more lucrative professional sports careers.
BuckinghamUBadger24
New member
Re: Hobey hat trick
BRENDAN SMITH........There is no other player on the country that has seperated himself from the field at his position(Defenseman) than anybody else. 15 G, 30 A. 45 pts!!! That is more points than last year's Hobey Baker Award Winner from last year in Matt Gilroy(37 pts). Season is not even over and Brendan Smith can add to that total. So if Gilory won last yr w/ his number's as a Defensman, doesn't this mean that Brendan Smith is that good and deserves to win the award?
BRENDAN SMITH........There is no other player on the country that has seperated himself from the field at his position(Defenseman) than anybody else. 15 G, 30 A. 45 pts!!! That is more points than last year's Hobey Baker Award Winner from last year in Matt Gilroy(37 pts). Season is not even over and Brendan Smith can add to that total. So if Gilory won last yr w/ his number's as a Defensman, doesn't this mean that Brendan Smith is that good and deserves to win the award?
BuckinghamUBadger24
New member
Re: Hobey hat trick
because I cannot even begin to state why your brand of logic makes absolutely zero sense.
I didn't say he doesn't deserve to win on his own merits - that's arguable at best. But him having more points than Matt Gilroy does not mean he deserves the Hobey because Gilroy won it, and it does not mean he is better than Gilroy.
because I cannot even begin to state why your brand of logic makes absolutely zero sense.
I didn't say he doesn't deserve to win on his own merits - that's arguable at best. But him having more points than Matt Gilroy does not mean he deserves the Hobey because Gilroy won it, and it does not mean he is better than Gilroy.
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BuckinghamUBadger24
New member
Federal League
I like hockey.
Re: Hobey hat trick
Nyquist's numbers aren't really comparable to other forwards, either.
Nyquist's numbers aren't really comparable to other forwards, either.
Carmine Scarpaglia
My bad.
Re: Hobey hat trick
While Cornell might be in the league in question here, they are irrelevant to the argument that the "ECAC is competitive" or whatever ridiculous phrase was used. As is every other ECAC team individually. Those numbers are embarrassing.
Does competitive mean not getting blown out in the NCAAs? I guess they might qualify as competitive under that definition. But at that point, seriously, have some standards here.
While Cornell might be in the league in question here, they are irrelevant to the argument that the "ECAC is competitive" or whatever ridiculous phrase was used. As is every other ECAC team individually. Those numbers are embarrassing.
Does competitive mean not getting blown out in the NCAAs? I guess they might qualify as competitive under that definition. But at that point, seriously, have some standards here.
Re: Hobey hat trick
On the other side, Harvard, Yale, and Princeton have essentially waived tuition for anyone whose family makes less than ~$250K per year, so there's nobody playing for those three who worries about the cost. That leaves Brown, Dartmouth (recent cellar dwellers), and Cornell who only offer financial aid for their players.
IIRC, there are 5 ECAC schools that offer a full complement of scholarships in the "State U" sense: RPI, Clarkson, Colgate, Quinnipiac, and SLU. SLU has only been doing it for the last several years, and Union has recently made some policy changes to improve their financial aid to their hockey players, but I think Union still stops short of giving a full 18 athletic scholarships.
On the other side, Harvard, Yale, and Princeton have essentially waived tuition for anyone whose family makes less than ~$250K per year, so there's nobody playing for those three who worries about the cost. That leaves Brown, Dartmouth (recent cellar dwellers), and Cornell who only offer financial aid for their players.
Kenny L Parker
Veteran
Re: Hobey hat trick
Carmine: re-read my post. I agree with Nick's argument, but dislike his Pinhead Nation style.
Carmine: re-read my post. I agree with Nick's argument, but dislike his Pinhead Nation style.
MinnesotaNorthStar
Minding the gap
Re: Hobey hat trick
How many of the ECAC NCAA wins in the last 10 years belong to Cornell?
The only other one I can think of is Clarkson...but that doesn't count because it was against SCSU...
How many of the ECAC NCAA wins in the last 10 years belong to Cornell?
The only other one I can think of is Clarkson...but that doesn't count because it was against SCSU...
Re: Hobey hat trick
The good news is that only a few of the losses were upset losses. The bad news is that ECAC teams usually go in as #3 and #4 seeds...
Well, if you want to count the last 10 tournaments that have already been played, that would be the years 2000-2009, which would include SLU's win over BU in 2000. Otherwise, you've named them all.
The good news is that only a few of the losses were upset losses. The bad news is that ECAC teams usually go in as #3 and #4 seeds...
unhpuckfan2001
Local Fire Extinguisher
Re: Hobey hat trick
I believe Dartmouth has, or soon will, extend the same offer to NH residents who make less than 75K -- it's a great program that all these schools are offering. "We don't want somebody with the qualifications to come here to be left out just because of money," or something along those lines . . .
I believe Dartmouth has, or soon will, extend the same offer to NH residents who make less than 75K -- it's a great program that all these schools are offering. "We don't want somebody with the qualifications to come here to be left out just because of money," or something along those lines . . .